Who is this Master?

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Tenma
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Who is this Master?

Post by Tenma » Sat May 16, 2020 8:20 pm

So I stumbled upon this and would like to know who the portrayed abbess is (@ 0:44, 2:56, 4:21, etc.). Does anyone know? And where is she from? Mongolia? Tibet?
From Google Translating the comments, I managed to get from one comment that she's an emanation of White Tara, though one can't quite trust YouTube comments, let alone a Google Translation of it, so I would like to know more about her.


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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Who is this Master?

Post by PadmaVonSamba » Sun May 17, 2020 11:22 pm

Her name is Wang Xiao 王逍.
Profile Picture: "The Fo Ming (Buddha Bright) Monk"
People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.

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PeterC
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Re: Who is this Master?

Post by PeterC » Mon May 18, 2020 1:34 am

Here’s a bio of her. I’ve never heard of her before.
https://wk.baidu.com/view/5d04b9ab534de ... 2f79?pcf=2

Tenma
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Re: Who is this Master?

Post by Tenma » Mon May 18, 2020 1:44 am

PadmaVonSamba wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 11:22 pm
Her name is Wang Xiao 王逍.
Thank you! I guess we're at a start now.
PeterC wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 1:34 am
Here’s a bio of her. I’ve never heard of her before.
https://wk.baidu.com/view/5d04b9ab534de ... 2f79?pcf=2
Pardon me, but I cannot read Chinese. Could anyone please translate what it says?

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PeterC
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Re: Who is this Master?

Post by PeterC » Mon May 18, 2020 9:01 am

Tenma wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 1:44 am
PadmaVonSamba wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 11:22 pm
Her name is Wang Xiao 王逍.
Thank you! I guess we're at a start now.
PeterC wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 1:34 am
Here’s a bio of her. I’ve never heard of her before.
https://wk.baidu.com/view/5d04b9ab534de ... 2f79?pcf=2
Pardon me, but I cannot read Chinese. Could anyone please translate what it says?
Thought you were from Singapore?

It's not the most comprehensive background. Born in Zhengzhou. Parents died early. Wandered around, studies in Serdar, starts recording music, spiritual revelation, recognized as a tulku of somebody-or-other. Who knows - generally I would want to hear from people who know the person in question directly and for some time before forming an opinion.

Varis
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Re: Who is this Master?

Post by Varis » Mon May 18, 2020 11:47 am

Best to take the tulku recognition's done in China with a grain of salt.
The CCP purposefully places party members and their children in Buddhist and Daoist monasteries. It's a cushy job.

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Grigoris
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Re: Who is this Master?

Post by Grigoris » Mon May 18, 2020 12:27 pm

Tenma wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 8:20 pm
...so I would like to know more about her.
You would be better off trying to find out more about yourself. More specifically investigating why you would a crap about this person.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

White Sakura
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Re: Who is this Master?

Post by White Sakura » Mon May 18, 2020 1:14 pm

I feel her as true. Recognitions of Tulkus are not done by the Chinese government in Tibet, but by high masters of the lineage. "Tulkus" installed by the government are not accepted by Tibetan masters. The situation shows that many masters of the lineage have agreed she is a high tulku. Maybe the monastery is Kagyu.

florin
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Re: Who is this Master?

Post by florin » Tue May 19, 2020 2:04 am

It is quite often nepotism. They are the son, daughter, nephew of some high lamas and are enthroned for the continuation of power.

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Lingpupa
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Re: Who is this Master?

Post by Lingpupa » Tue May 19, 2020 1:05 pm

You would be better off trying to find out more about yourself. More specifically investigating why you would a crap about this person.
So good there is somebody with the wisdom to check what we might be thinking and keep us on the straight and narrow.

Or?
All the best
Alex Wilding
Stupa in the Snow blog at http://chagchen.org/

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PeterC
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Re: Who is this Master?

Post by PeterC » Tue May 19, 2020 2:15 pm

White Sakura wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 1:14 pm
I feel her as true.
Feeling is a terrible way to select a guru, particularly at a distance. As Michael Corleone might have said, if anything in this life is certain, if history has taught taught us anything, it is that anything can be faked.

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Grigoris
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Re: Who is this Master?

Post by Grigoris » Tue May 19, 2020 6:16 pm

So the answers are currently ranging from "she's the best" to "all tulku are fake".

I have to say that this discussion has really clarified the issue. :roll:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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PeterC
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Re: Who is this Master?

Post by PeterC » Wed May 20, 2020 1:12 am

Grigoris wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 6:16 pm
So the answers are currently ranging from "she's the best" to "all tulku are fake".

I have to say that this discussion has really clarified the issue. :roll:
It appears that nobody here knows her personally or knows anyone who knows her. So we have no useful information. That’s about the size of it...

Tenma
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Re: Who is this Master?

Post by Tenma » Wed May 20, 2020 4:38 am

PeterC wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 1:12 am
Grigoris wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 6:16 pm
So the answers are currently ranging from "she's the best" to "all tulku are fake".

I have to say that this discussion has really clarified the issue. :roll:
It appears that nobody here knows her personally or knows anyone who knows her. So we have no useful information. That’s about the size of it...
Right, unless anyone else has substantiated evidence, the mods may lock up this forum now.

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Ayu
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Re: Who is this Master?

Post by Ayu » Wed May 20, 2020 5:45 am

PeterC wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 1:12 am
Grigoris wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 6:16 pm
So the answers are currently ranging from "she's the best" to "all tulku are fake".

I have to say that this discussion has really clarified the issue. :roll:
It appears that nobody here knows her personally or knows anyone who knows her. So we have no useful information. That’s about the size of it...
Yes, this is a good reason for locking the thread.

Edit: Unlocked for further information.
For the benefit and ease of all sentient beings. :heart:

jmlee369
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Re: Who is this Master?

Post by jmlee369 » Thu May 21, 2020 1:15 pm

There is a lot of controversy about this person on the Chinese web. I will just summarise and translate what people are saying. To state the basics:
Born in 1971, Wang Xiao was orphaned when young. Had a strong connection to dharma since childhood, started teaching dharma since her teens. Based on indications from dreams, went to Tibet. Studied in Serthar Larung Gar fro 1997 to 2001. Also ran a jewellery business. Released an album 'Shambhala' in 1998. Studied Buddhism in the philosophy department of Beijing University fro 2004 to 2006.

All of that is probably not controversial. From there, the biography says:

In 2006, Drog Ge monastery (རྔ་བའི་འབྲོག་དགེ་དགོན) recognised her as the reincarnation of Choje Dorje, a great hidden female practitioner of Kalachakra who was in retreat in a cave for 51 years. Wang Xiao was found by a search party led by a Kunga Gyatso tulku, a great practitioner of Kalachakra. The enthronement was said to have taken place in 16 Dec of that year. Many greatly realised masters were said to have proclaimed her as the emanation of White Tara's body, speech, and mind. Her dharma name is Padma Drolkar. She is said to have gone into retreat from 2007 to the present. Kunga Gyatso tulku has since passed.

The detractors make a number of criticisms, including claims that Kunga Gyatso is just an elder monk who repairs stupas, not a tulku and certainly not someone with authority to recognise tulkus, that the story of Choje Dorje is a fabrication, that there was no recognition by Drog Ge monastery, that there was money involved, etc etc.

Drog Ge monastery is an important Jonang monastery. One of the main Drog Ge monastery tulkus used to have a website, but it is no longer active. He seems to travel a fair amount around mainland China, and it shouldn't be too difficult to contact him and ask about this matter if people really wanted to know. He goes by Zhuoge Yonten Gyatso Rinpoche (Zhuoge being the Chinese approximation of Drog Ge).

As a side note, the song in the video is by the Mongolian artist Muergen, not Wang Xiao.

My personal opinion on all this is that tulkus who are recognised as adults should go through the proper course of training, study, and practice, and as always, people should examine potential teachers thoroughly over a number of years against the criteria laid out in the texts. Some minor red flags for me are the different hats she wears in the video (Kagyu Gampopa hat, Nyingma hat, the little yellow cap that I've only seen Gelug tulkus wear) despite being a Jonang tulku, and the wearing of a fully ordained monastic's namjar. These could all be explained as going along with requests from the host monasteries that she is visiting, but it's still a bit strange to me. The monasteries that she visits certainly treat her like a high lama.

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Re: Who is this Master?

Post by Danny » Thu May 21, 2020 1:28 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 12:27 pm
You would be better off trying to find out more about yourself.
Brilliant!

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Ayu
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Re: Who is this Master?

Post by Ayu » Thu May 21, 2020 1:35 pm

Ayu wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 5:45 am
PeterC wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 1:12 am
Grigoris wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 6:16 pm
So the answers are currently ranging from "she's the best" to "all tulku are fake".

I have to say that this discussion has really clarified the issue. :roll:
It appears that nobody here knows her personally or knows anyone who knows her. So we have no useful information. That’s about the size of it...
Yes, this is a good reason for locking the thread.

Edit: Unlocked for further information.
Because Jmlee369 now posted his translation as promised I see no reason for keeping the topic unlocked any further.

Please contact the mod team if you want to add anything substantial.
For the benefit and ease of all sentient beings. :heart:

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