How vajrayana practices work?

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upasaka
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How vajrayana practices work?

Post by upasaka » Tue May 03, 2011 8:06 am

We know how shamatha (calming the mind) or vipassana (developing of insight) practices work but how vajrayana practices work?
All buddhist practices should be about transforming the mind, right?

What exactly we develop through sadhana practices or Protectors practice? Peace of mind? Insight? Its technically the same like with shamatha and vipassana? Or its different?

Is for vajrayana practitioners shamatha and vipassana not sufficient? Is from vajrayana point of view reciting the texts (which we often even dont uderstend) or trying to visualise very complicated and complex images more beneficial, than practising shamatha and vipassana? :tongue:

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Grigoris
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Re: How vajrayana practices work?

Post by Grigoris » Tue May 03, 2011 12:53 pm

upasaka wrote:We know how shamatha (calming the mind) or vipassana (developing of insight) practices work but how vajrayana practices work?
All buddhist practices should be about transforming the mind, right?

What exactly we develop through sadhana practices or Protectors practice? Peace of mind? Insight? Its technically the same like with shamatha and vipassana? Or its different?

Is for vajrayana practitioners shamatha and vipassana not sufficient? Is from vajrayana point of view reciting the texts (which we often even dont uderstend) or trying to visualise very complicated and complex images more beneficial, than practising shamatha and vipassana? :tongue:
It is no different to shamatha and vipassana, just a different road to get to the same outcome.
:namaste:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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kirtu
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Re: How vajrayana practices work?

Post by kirtu » Tue May 03, 2011 12:55 pm

upasaka wrote:We know how shamatha (calming the mind) or vipassana (developing of insight) practices work but how vajrayana practices work?
All buddhist practices should be about transforming the mind, right?

What exactly we develop through sadhana practices or Protectors practice? Peace of mind? Insight? Its technically the same like with shamatha and vipassana? Or its different?

Is for vajrayana practitioners shamatha and vipassana not sufficient?
Sadhana practice is shamatha and vipassana. However sadhana practice is an extraordinary method to very swiftly (as in within 32 lifetimes) accumulate merit, purify the aggregates and accumulate wisdom. This is done by taking the result (perfect Buddhahood) as the path. The practitioner conceives of themselves and all beings as possessing the fully developed qualities of a Buddha - perfect body, speech, mind, qualities and activities and conceives of the environment as a perfect Pure Land. This is definitely true for the highest category of tantra but is also the case for the lower 3 categories of tantra although basically only during the meditation session (for the lowest category of tantra however one conceives of oneself as a servant of a Buddha).

So as practice progresses over 1, 3, 7, 16 or 32 lifetimes we actualize the profound qualities of a Buddha: perfect lovingkindness, perfect compassion, perfect purity and perfect spiritual power. The highest spiritual power is full and perfect enlightenment.

Protector practice is for clearing obstacles on the path primarily. This is also basically in the Sravaka path with the protector verses and seems to be mostly vestigial in the common Mahayana.

Kirt
Last edited by kirtu on Thu May 05, 2011 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

Dhondrub
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Re: How vajrayana practices work?

Post by Dhondrub » Tue May 03, 2011 3:17 pm

Here you find a good explanation how the Vajrayana works, by the late third Jamgon Kongtrul Rinpoche

http://www.dharmadownload.net/pages/eng ... h_0044.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

dakini_boi
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Re: How vajrayana practices work?

Post by dakini_boi » Tue May 03, 2011 4:30 pm

upasaka wrote:We know how shamatha (calming the mind) or vipassana (developing of insight) practices work but how vajrayana practices work?
All buddhist practices should be about transforming the mind, right?

What exactly we develop through sadhana practices or Protectors practice? Peace of mind? Insight? Its technically the same like with shamatha and vipassana? Or its different?

Is for vajrayana practitioners shamatha and vipassana not sufficient? Is from vajrayana point of view reciting the texts (which we often even dont uderstend) or trying to visualise very complicated and complex images more beneficial, than practising shamatha and vipassana? :tongue:

Yes, shamatha and vipassana are about calming the mind and developing insight. These take a LONG time to perfect. Vajrayana visualization practices are about radically changing our perceptions - which is considered a relatively expedient means to realizing the ultimate nature of the mind (perfect vipassana). I recommend Lama Yeshe's book "Introduction to Tantra." It addresses all this and more, in a very clear and logical way.

upasaka
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Re: How vajrayana practices work?

Post by upasaka » Wed May 04, 2011 8:11 am

Thank you guys for your answers. It was helpful. :smile:

Please, can you elaborate more on Protectors practice? Do we literraly ask some wrathful but enlightened beings to help us remove obstacles on our path or its about khyerim and dzogrim too? There is not much material about Protectors so...

Thank you!

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Grigoris
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Re: How vajrayana practices work?

Post by Grigoris » Wed May 04, 2011 8:22 am

upasaka wrote:Thank you guys for your answers. It was helpful. :smile:

Please, can you elaborate more on Protectors practice? Do we literraly ask some wrathful but enlightened beings to help us remove obstacles on our path or its about khyerim and dzogrim too? There is not much material about Protectors so...

Thank you!
There's not much material about protectors for a reason, the practices are meant to be kept secret.
:namaste:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

upasaka
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Re: How vajrayana practices work?

Post by upasaka » Wed May 04, 2011 8:46 am

gregkavarnos wrote:
upasaka wrote:Thank you guys for your answers. It was helpful. :smile:

Please, can you elaborate more on Protectors practice? Do we literraly ask some wrathful but enlightened beings to help us remove obstacles on our path or its about khyerim and dzogrim too? There is not much material about Protectors so...

Thank you!
There's not much material about protectors for a reason, the practices are meant to be kept secret.
:namaste:
I know. I do Protectors practice but even my teacher didnt give me some kind of extensive explanation on this topic and i am always curious what is all about. Maybe its only my namtog - "i want to know it all". :smile:

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Grigoris
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Re: How vajrayana practices work?

Post by Grigoris » Wed May 04, 2011 10:39 am

upasaka wrote:
gregkavarnos wrote:
upasaka wrote:Thank you guys for your answers. It was helpful. :smile:

Please, can you elaborate more on Protectors practice? Do we literraly ask some wrathful but enlightened beings to help us remove obstacles on our path or its about khyerim and dzogrim too? There is not much material about Protectors so...

Thank you!
There's not much material about protectors for a reason, the practices are meant to be kept secret.
:namaste:
I know. I do Protectors practice but even my teacher didnt give me some kind of extensive explanation on this topic and i am always curious what is all about. Maybe its only my namtog - "i want to know it all". :smile:
So do them, and when the time is ripe you will get the explanations as well. Have you started Ngondro practice?
:namaste:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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heart
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Re: How vajrayana practices work?

Post by heart » Wed May 04, 2011 11:26 am

upasaka wrote:I do Protectors practice but even my teacher didnt give me some kind of extensive explanation on this topic and i am always curious what is all about. Maybe its only my namtog - "i want to know it all". :smile:
Not at all. The traditional way is to make an offering and request explanations. If it is an important practice for you then the traditional style is to never give up requesting it and requesting it from all Lamas that have the lineage until you resolved all your doubts about the teaching. Not having any questions is a very suspicious attitude that many westerners mistake for devotion.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

upasaka
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Re: How vajrayana practices work?

Post by upasaka » Thu May 05, 2011 7:52 am

gregkavarnos wrote:So do them, and when the time is ripe you will get the explanations as well. Have you started Ngondro practice?
:namaste:
Yes, i did. :smile:

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