Tibetan Doctors, please read

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padma norbu
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Tibetan Doctors, please read

Post by padma norbu »

I got these Tibetan medicine pills called Agar-35 and "Happiness of Mind." They are supposed to help balance everything out and put one in a calm state which is conducive to meditation, basically. They work gradually over time and it's not like you pop a pill to chill out. It balances pitta and whatever (I'm no doctor).

Check out these instructions:
There are specific guidelines given in preparation for taking the idfferent Tibetan pill formulas and specifically the Precious Pills. Among these are that this pill should not be exposed to direct sunlight or bright artificial light, it should be taken on days with no extreme output of energy for three days prior to beginning and four days following taking the precious pill. Refrain from sex & excessive exercise, coffe or black/green tea or alcohol, red meat, eggs, shell fish, raw fruits or vegetables, fried, pungent or sour foods, smoking extreme hot or cold baths or showers. Mild intake of food, avoiding garlic, onion and black olive.

Prepare a room by blocking the windows and doors so that direct light cannot enter. A candle may be used for light when necessary. The night before, remove and crush the Precious pill or pills and then place in boiled water in a clean unchipped glass and cover with a white cloth and place it at your bedside allowing it to soak over night. On this evening it is particularly important to dress warmly and be warm during sleep. Early the next morning one should drink the mixture after stirring it thoroughly with the clean ring finger while reciting the Medicine Buddha Mantra. This should then be followed by drinking a cup of warm, boiled water. All the while not leaving the darkened room for twenty four hours. Bathroom should be darkened (candle is ok) when needed.

Reciting the Mantra of Medicine Buddha is suggested while opening and taking the medicine. The mantra is: Om Bekanzi Bekanzi Maha Bekanzi Bekanzi Radza Samu Gate Soha! (phonetically ~ OM beyconzee beyconzee Mawhaw Beyconzee Beyconzee Rawdza Sawmoo Gawtay Sohaw). Reciting this mantra 108 times in a series of seven times 7x108 is also recommended during this 24 hour period. A mala would be needed for this to help you count and keep track of the mantra count.

Remember when taking this precious pill it should be a time of deep rest and gentle meditative contemplation ~ this attitude will assist in the alchemy of healing involved.
I am supposed to take 2 pills a day of each over a long period of time, like a few months. Based on these instructions, that is something that could only possibly be achieved by people with no job or who are on a long vacation like a 3-month retreat (and hopefully it's a Medicine Buddha retreat).

Additionally, it seems the got the Medicine Buddha Mantra wrong, didn't they?
Here's the one I'm familiar with:
  • Tayata Om Bekandze Bekandze Maha Bekandze Radza Samudgate Soha.
Here's their's:
  • Om Bekanzi Bekanzi Maha Bekanzi Bekanzi Radza Samu Gate Soha
I have bolded the differences. Google turns up no results at all for their version of the mantra.

My question for the doctors is: is this a bit extreme overkill here? With all these dietary restrictions, relaxation and seclusion, what is left for the pills to do?
Agar-35 can be bought a few different places, so I assume some Tibetan Doctors are familiar with it, if there are any doctors here. I can't imagine a regular medicine such as this requires you to block a week off your calendar and 24 hours in a dark room every time you take a pill which you are supposed to take consecutively for a few months.
Last edited by padma norbu on Tue May 31, 2011 3:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
Malcolm
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Re: Tibetan Doctors, please read

Post by Malcolm »

The instructions are for precious pills. These are not precious pills.

Agar 35 should be taken in the evening before bed. Sems bde or "happiness of mind: should be taken in the morning. Both with hot water, half an hour before a meal.

If you do not have anxiety, depression or some other wind disorder, you don't need these.

N

padma norbu wrote:I got these Tibetan medicine pills called Agar-35 and "Happiness of Mind." They are supposed to help balance everything out and put one in a calm state which is conducive to meditation, basically. They work gradually over time and it's not like you pop a pill to chill out. It balances pitta and whatever (I'm no doctor).

Check out these instructions:
There are specific guidelines given in preparation for taking the idfferent Tibetan pill formulas and specifically the Precious Pills. Among these are that this pill should not be exposed to direct sunlight or bright artificial light, it should be taken on days with no extreme output of energy for three days prior to beginning and four days following taking the precious pill. Refrain from sex & excessive exercise, coffe or black/green tea or alcohol, red meat, eggs, shell fish, raw fruits or vegetables, fried, pungent or sour foods, smoking extreme hot or cold baths or showers. Mild intake of food, avoiding garlic, onion and black olive.

Prepare a room by blocking the windows and doors so that direct light cannot enter. A candle may be used for light when necessary. The night before, remove and crush the Precious pill or pills and then place in boiled water in a clean unchipped glass and cover with a white cloth and place it at your bedside allowing it to soak over night. On this evening it is particularly important to dress warmly and be warm during sleep. Early the next morning one should drink the mixture after stirring it thoroughly with the clean ring finger while reciting the Medicine Buddha Mantra. This should then be followed by drinking a cup of warm, boiled water. All the while not leaving the darkened room for twenty four hours. Bathroom should be darkened (candle is ok) when needed.

Reciting the Mantra of Medicine Buddha is suggested while opening and taking the medicine. The mantra is: Om Bekanzi Bekanzi Maha Bekanzi Bekanzi Radza Samu Gate Soha! (phonetically ~ OM beyconzee beyconzee Mawhaw Beyconzee Beyconzee Rawdza Sawmoo Gawtay Sohaw). Reciting this mantra 108 times in a series of seven times 7x108 is also recommended during this 24 hour period. A mala would be needed for this to help you count and keep track of the mantra count.

Remember when taking this precious pill it should be a time of deep rest and gentle meditative contemplation ~ this attitude will assist in the alchemy of healing involved.
I am supposed to take 2 pills a day of each over a long period of time, like a few months. Based on these instructions, that is something that could only possibly be achieved by people with no job or who are on a long vacation like a 3-month retreat (and hopefully it's a Medicine Buddha retreat).

Additionally, it seems the got the Medicine Buddha Mantra wrong, didn't they?
Here's the one I'm familiar with:
  • Tayata Om Bekandze Bekandze Maha Bekandze Radza Samudgate Soha.
Here's there's:
  • Om Bekanzi Bekanzi Maha Bekanzi Bekanzi Radza Samu Gate Soha
I have bolded the differences. Google turns up no results at all for their version of the mantra.

My question for the doctors is: is this a bit extreme overkill here?
Agar-35 can be bought a few different places, so I assume some Tibetan Doctors are familiar with it, if there are any doctors here. I can't imagine a regular medicine such as this requires you to block a week off your calendar and 24 hours in a dark room every time you take a pill which you are supposed to take consecutively for a few months.
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padma norbu
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Re: Tibetan Doctors, please read

Post by padma norbu »

Thanks, Namdrol!
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Tibetan Doctors, please read

Post by kalden yungdrung »

Pema Norbu wrote:
Additionally, it seems the got the Medicine Buddha Mantra wrong, didn't they?

Tashi delek, :)

For me there are inside Dorje Thekpa, 3 Sangye Menla Mantras.

Teyatha Om Bhaishaye Bhaishaye, Maha Bhaishaya Samudgate Svaha

Om Bekadze Bekadze Maha Bekadze Radza Samudgate Svaha

NAMO BHAGAVATE BHAISAJAYA
GURU VAIDURYA
PRABHA RAJAYA
TATHAGATAYA / ARHATE
SAMYAK SAMBUDDHAYA TADYATHA OM
BHAISAJYE BHAISAJYE MAHA BHAISAJYA
RAJAYA SAMUDGATE SVAHA

Best wishes
KY
Last edited by kalden yungdrung on Tue May 31, 2011 4:16 am, edited 3 times in total.
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padma norbu
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Re: Tibetan Doctors, please read

Post by padma norbu »

It's funny because I had the opposite instruction for some reason (Agar-35 in morning, Happiness of Mind at night). Don't remember where I read that. EDIT: nope, wrong. I got the names confused. I have been taking them how you suggested.

I am glad to know these instructions are not for these pills because I have not been following them. :D I guess they just put these instructions in every order no matter what the pills are.

They did get the Medicine Buddha Mantra wrong though, no?
Last edited by padma norbu on Tue May 31, 2011 4:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Tibetan Doctors, please read

Post by kalden yungdrung »

padma norbu wrote:It's funny because I had the opposite instruction for some reason (Agar-35 in morning, Happiness of Mind at night). Don't remember where I read that.

I am glad to know these instructions are not for these pills. I suspected as much, but I guess they just put these instructions in every order no matter what the pills are.

They did get the Medicine Buddha Mantra wrong though, no?

Tashi delek, :)

A practitioner of the Menla Tradition does recognize the / your above mentioned Mantras as spoken or seen personal.
Maybe the person knows also the correct script in Sanskrit or Tibetan but is from another country .... This we can see with the Japanese Menla Mantra for instance.

For me personal is the Menla Mantra in Sanskrit, here meant as the original or the source Mantra which is also used in Dorje Thekpa, but then is spoken / pronounced in mainly Tibetan......

Best wishes
KY
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padma norbu
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Re: Tibetan Doctors, please read

Post by padma norbu »

kalden yungdrung wrote:Tashi delek, :)

A practitioner of the Menla Tradition does recognize the / your above mentioned Mantras as spoken or seen personal.
Maybe the person knows also the correct script in Sanskrit or Tibetan but is from another country .... This we can see with the Japanese Menla Mantra for instance.

For me personal is the Menla Mantra in Sanskrit the original or the source Mantra......

Best wishes
KY
There are 4 Bekanzis in their version of the mantra. Only 3 everywhere else. It's just funny because they did it in the pronunciation key, too, so they made the same mistake twice. (at least it seems to be a mistake). Overall, not the best instructions, I think. ;)

Thank you for your input.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Tibetan Doctors, please read

Post by kalden yungdrung »

padma norbu wrote:
kalden yungdrung wrote:Tashi delek, :)

A practitioner of the Menla Tradition does recognize the / your above mentioned Mantras as spoken or seen personal.
Maybe the person knows also the correct script in Sanskrit or Tibetan but is from another country .... This we can see with the Japanese Menla Mantra for instance.

For me personal is the Menla Mantra in Sanskrit the original or the source Mantra......

Best wishes
KY
There are 4 Bekanzis in their version of the mantra. Only 3 everywhere else. It's just funny because they did it in the pronunciation key, too, so they made the same mistake twice. (at least it seems to be a mistake). Overall, not the best instructions, I think. ;)

Thank you for your input.
Tashi delek, :)

Do not see it as a mistake if the pronounciation would be a little different. The meaning of the (Samadhi of the) Mantra that is here very important in this Tantra.

Best wishes
KY
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padma norbu
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Re: Tibetan Doctors, please read

Post by padma norbu »

Okay, I will accept it is not a mistake then. Never saw the extra bekanzi anywhere before.
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Re: Tibetan Doctors, please read

Post by catmoon »

Yup there are variants in the mantras. The 4-bekhandze version is not all that uncommon. The medium length mantra always has 4 bekhandzes IIRC.

Dropping the "Tayatha" at the beginning is an interesting one. "Tayatha" means "Like this" and is believed by many to have been part of the ancient instructions on how to use the mantra. That's as opposed to being part of the mantra itself.

It's rather as if someone were to write, in a Joyce Kilmer commentary


This should be read in a sonorous voice:

I think that I shall never see
A poem as lovely as a tree


And then people recited the poem as:

This should be read
In a sonorous voice
I think that I shall never see
A poem as lovely as a tree


Needless to say, I'm in the camp that drops the Tayatha. This sort of commentarial bracketing error is quite common and is called a gloss. Perhaps the most famous example is the end of 1 John where a marginal note that appears in eight early manuscripts suddenly appears as a part of the text - in the late fourth century. The last few verses, now with the power of Biblical Authority behind them, became the go-to passage for those who were trying to establish Trinitarian doctrine, and they remain in most versions of the Bible to this day. The better editions will give the reader a footnote to warn him of the situation tho. :reading:
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Re: Tibetan Doctors, please read

Post by Pero »

Namdrol wrote:The instructions are for precious pills. These are not precious pills.

Agar 35 should be taken in the evening before bed. Sems bde or "happiness of mind: should be taken in the morning. Both with hot water, half an hour before a meal.

If you do not have anxiety, depression or some other wind disorder, you don't need these.
Do these pills have an expiration date? I still have some Agar 35 that I got a year or two ago and never finished because I disliked the taste too much hehe. Vimala was much easier to swallow.
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Malcolm
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Re: Tibetan Doctors, please read

Post by Malcolm »

Pero wrote:
Namdrol wrote:The instructions are for precious pills. These are not precious pills.

Agar 35 should be taken in the evening before bed. Sems bde or "happiness of mind: should be taken in the morning. Both with hot water, half an hour before a meal.

If you do not have anxiety, depression or some other wind disorder, you don't need these.
Do these pills have an expiration date? I still have some Agar 35 that I got a year or two ago and never finished because I disliked the taste too much hehe. Vimala was much easier to swallow.
Roughly four years
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padma norbu
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Re: Tibetan Doctors, please read

Post by padma norbu »

catmoon wrote: It's rather as if someone were to write, in a Joyce Kilmer commentary


This should be read in a sonorous voice:

I think that I shall never see
A poem as lovely as a tree


And then people recited the poem as:

This should be read
In a sonorous voice
I think that I shall never see
A poem as lovely as a tree
That is hilarious! As I was examining the mantras the other day, I was noting it is kind of odd that most mantras begin with OM and end with SOHA, so the extra Tayata is unusual. Now you've explained it. Thank you!
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
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padma norbu
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Re: Tibetan Doctors, please read

Post by padma norbu »

Pero wrote: I still have some Agar 35 that I got a year or two ago and never finished because I disliked the taste too much hehe. Vimala was much easier to swallow.
Agar-35 is rather disgusting. Worse is looking in the mirror afterward and seeing that it looks like you just ate dirt which is all over your teeth.

Interestingly, it tastes very similar to Happiness of Mind and has a lot of the same ingredients, but Happiness of Mind tastes rather good, like a tea of some sort. Seems like the gross part of Agar-35 is the m&m like shell which is very hard to mix well and turns into sludge on the bottom of the cup.
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Re: Tibetan Doctors, please read

Post by Lhug-Pa »

Would Chulen that is taken for the purpose of needing less sleep and having more energy for a retreat, have to be taken according to the instructions that Padma Norbu posted in the original post?

Or could these said Chudlen be taken the same way as say Bimala or Semde?
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Re: Tibetan Doctors, please read

Post by Malcolm »

Lhug-Pa wrote:Would Chulen that is taken for the purpose of needing less sleep and having more energy for a retreat, have to be taken according to the instructions that Padma Norbu posted in the original post?

Or could these said Chudlen be taken the same way as say Bimala or Semde?

Chulen pills have a method of being blessed as in Mandarava practice, so use that.
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Re: Tibetan Doctors, please read

Post by Lhug-Pa »

Ah that's right. I wasn't sure if Mandarava practice was connected to a specific Chudlen only, or if also to all Chulen in general as well. Either way, I've been wanting to learn the practice(s) of Mandarava ever since I joined the Dzogchen Community.

I've been blessing other herbs & medicines, reciting the Medicine Buddha Mantra over them, etc., however for actual Chulen, Mandarava practice I'm sure would, as you say, be best.

Much thanks.
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Re: Tibetan Doctors, please read

Post by kirtu »

catmoon wrote: Needless to say, I'm in the camp that drops the Tayatha.
:jawdrop: :jedi:
What a heathen! :jumping:

(I am mildly take aback at that variant though ....)

Kirt
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"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
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catmoon
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Re: Tibetan Doctors, please read

Post by catmoon »

kirtu wrote:
catmoon wrote: Needless to say, I'm in the camp that drops the Tayatha.
:jawdrop: :jedi:
What a heathen! :jumping:

(I am mildly take aback at that variant though ....)

Kirt
Which one? And for which reasons?

In any event, the study of variations, additions and deletions to the scriptures of any religion makes a fascinating study. All through history, there have always been those who insisted on the perfection of their preferred variant, to such an incredible extent that I have met real people who thought the Bible originated in 1611 in the English language, I kid you not.
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Re: Tibetan Doctors, please read

Post by Reibeam »

Malcolm wrote:
Lhug-Pa wrote:Would Chulen that is taken for the purpose of needing less sleep and having more energy for a retreat, have to be taken according to the instructions that Padma Norbu posted in the original post?

Or could these said Chudlen be taken the same way as say Bimala or Semde?

Chulen pills have a method of being blessed as in Mandarava practice, so use that.

Are chudlen pills to be chewed or swallowed? are Bimala to only be chewed or does it matter?
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