Teacher & Root Guru

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florin
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Re: Teacher & Root Guru

Post by florin » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:46 pm

I am not confortable going into details. More or less i had in mind the transmission of dzogchen state as is explained by Rongzom and others.
I already said too much.
“The path of the supreme yoga it is not the path of accomplished sages of the past. Whoever enters onto the path of the sages of the past will end up gripped by the sicknesses of the path - meditation, attachment, and exertion.”Thig le drug pa.

“Everything of the universe of saṃsāra and nirvāṇa arises as the enlightened energy of the one self-perfected Natural Presence. But these teachers still mistakenly teach that disciples should fabricate enlightenment by applying discipline, renunciation, interruption, purification and transformation”.

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Ogyen
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Re: Teacher & Root Guru

Post by Ogyen » Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:17 am

conebeckham wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:09 pm
But, to be clear, there is "Tendrel" in play here; it is not the words alone which effect the recognition. The student has to be "prepared," so to speak...receptive and attentive, and some compassion and devotion may help grease the wheels too. That's part of the Karmic connection, too, I think.
Oh, excellent point, I skipped that point thinking how most people come into these situations through some previous search, but great point in the case where one's karma ripened in such a way that they sort of stumble in onto the scenario of being with a root guru.

I had no particular "devotion" to my root teacher when I received transmission (is that un-PC to admit?), it was more conditions came together in a time and place that brought it all together. And then I asked how I would know if my teacher was my root teacher, and how I would know to verify it for myself... if was told that I could observe doubt falling away, and confidence growing whether it was immediate or gradual... basically in not so many words, it would become self-evident through the fruit of the path I was following...

Honestly, I didn't believe or disbelieve. I plain and simple just didn't know and I simply applied the instructions the best that I could with a pure intention. And then I did experience that profound unequivocal recognition or confidence. I consistently applied the method as well as I could, all the confidence began to manifest in various ways that will never be altogether logical. As Greg noted, it's not really meant to satisfy the rationalizing mind, that's not its purpose. I have verified that.

So my question in this thread is... what happens when your root teacher dies? This is something that I've been wondering. Does the root relationship stay with you?
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The Heart Drive - nosce te ipsum

"To love. To be loved. To never forget your own insignificance. To never get used to the unspeakable violence and the vulgar disparity of life around you. To seek joy in the saddest places. To pursue beauty to its lair. To never simplify what is complicated or complicate what is simple. To respect strength, never power. Above all, to watch. To try and understand. To never look away. And never, never, to forget." –Arundhati Roy

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weitsicht
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Re: Teacher & Root Guru

Post by weitsicht » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:58 pm

No first-hand experience I can share with you @Ogyen
but sure this connection stays as-well-as it transforms into something new. The Guru leaving this world physically provoces more internalization of the devoted student's inner guru.
It is somewhere after Minute 20 in this film where Western student reflect about Tulku Urgyen's death


Admittedly I hope for Sogyal's (former) students to advance on this path. He hasn't deceased but still he is ceased somehow. Switching over to another Guru doesn't feel rigt.
But I'm not affected and I don't want to judge.
Ho! All the possible appearances and existences of samsara and nirvana have the same source, yet two paths and two results arise as the magical display of awareness and unawareness.
HO NANG SRI KHOR DAE THAMCHE KUN ZHI CHIG LAM NYI DRAE BU NYI RIG DANG MA RIG CHOM THRUL TE

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TharpaChodron
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Re: Teacher & Root Guru

Post by TharpaChodron » Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:57 am

Ogyen wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:17 am
conebeckham wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:09 pm
But, to be clear, there is "Tendrel" in play here; it is not the words alone which effect the recognition. The student has to be "prepared," so to speak...receptive and attentive, and some compassion and devotion may help grease the wheels too. That's part of the Karmic connection, too, I think.
Oh, excellent point, I skipped that point thinking how most people come into these situations through some previous search, but great point in the case where one's karma ripened in such a way that they sort of stumble in onto the scenario of being with a root guru.

I had no particular "devotion" to my root teacher when I received transmission (is that un-PC to admit?), it was more conditions came together in a time and place that brought it all together. And then I asked how I would know if my teacher was my root teacher, and how I would know to verify it for myself... if was told that I could observe doubt falling away, and confidence growing whether it was immediate or gradual... basically in not so many words, it would become self-evident through the fruit of the path I was following...

Honestly, I didn't believe or disbelieve. I plain and simple just didn't know and I simply applied the instructions the best that I could with a pure intention. And then I did experience that profound unequivocal recognition or confidence. I consistently applied the method as well as I could, all the confidence began to manifest in various ways that will never be altogether logical. As Greg noted, it's not really meant to satisfy the rationalizing mind, that's not its purpose. I have verified that.

So my question in this thread is... what happens when your root teacher dies? This is something that I've been wondering. Does the root relationship stay with you?
My root teacher died, it left me drifting a little but there is still an incredible connection. Last week I found my notes from a retreat I did with him. I wrote down everything he said word for word at the time and tbh, I am again shocked by the profundity of his teaching, reading it all again. It was no ordinary teaching. I recall being exhausted as he talked, for hours and hours from dawn till night, I wish I could share it with others.

tingdzin
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Re: Teacher & Root Guru

Post by tingdzin » Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:55 pm

Ogyen wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:17 am
So my question in this thread is... what happens when your root teacher dies? This is something that I've been wondering. Does the root relationship stay with you?
The aspect of the root lama that Lungtok Tenpe Nyima calls "the principal lama", i.e., the form with characteristics, is but one aspect of the lama-disciple nexus (and it is a large mistake to consider the root lama as wholly contained in the particular human form whose interaction with you made him or her your root lama). If he or she really was your root lama (I am speaking in the Nyingmapa sense), then the interaction cannot but continue after the human form disappears. So the short answer is, of course.

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Ogyen
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Re: Teacher & Root Guru

Post by Ogyen » Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:21 am

What interesting responses everyone! Tharpa... Wow I got chills reading what you wrote. I could feel it as if I'd lived that before!

Tingdzin, the nyingma approach makes sense in my context for reference to what I understand of what is called the root lama. Thank you :bow:
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The Heart Drive - nosce te ipsum

"To love. To be loved. To never forget your own insignificance. To never get used to the unspeakable violence and the vulgar disparity of life around you. To seek joy in the saddest places. To pursue beauty to its lair. To never simplify what is complicated or complicate what is simple. To respect strength, never power. Above all, to watch. To try and understand. To never look away. And never, never, to forget." –Arundhati Roy

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