Death at Tibetan Buddhist meditation retreat in Arizona

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Crazywisdom
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Re: Death at Tibetan Buddhist meditation retreat in Arizona

Post by Crazywisdom » Sat Aug 23, 2014 12:54 am

Malcolm wrote:What does anyone expect? Paltrul Rinpoche said:
These days have become a time when charlatans are more marketable than the sublime.
Rinchen Dorje was the drupon in Arizona. He did a six year. Neither he nor Garchen are charlatans. I don't think any drupons are charlatans. I think they have become lax about who they let in. Maybe they need the money.
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bryandavis
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Re: Death at Tibetan Buddhist meditation retreat in Arizona

Post by bryandavis » Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:34 am

Gar Rinpoche holds nothing back. He is constantly giving pointing out instructions. He freely gives pith instruction on tummo / vajra recitation / working with winds etc. He goes to the essence of the teachings in an unelaborated style. If anyone has ever asked him practice related question in person he spills his heart that is for sure. But his Dharma is very nfluenced by his life situation / prison / Khenpo Munsel etc.

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Malcolm
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Re: Death at Tibetan Buddhist meditation retreat in Arizona

Post by Malcolm » Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:42 am

Crazywisdom wrote:
Malcolm wrote:What does anyone expect? Paltrul Rinpoche said:
These days have become a time when charlatans are more marketable than the sublime.
Rinchen Dorje was the drupon in Arizona. He did a six year. Neither he nor Garchen are charlatans. I don't think any drupons are charlatans. I think they have become lax about who they let in. Maybe they need the money.
There is nothing in my post which could have led you to infer that I was talking about anyone in Drigung.
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Crazywisdom
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Re: Death at Tibetan Buddhist meditation retreat in Arizona

Post by Crazywisdom » Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:09 am

Malcolm wrote:
Crazywisdom wrote:
There is nothing in my post which could have led you to infer that I was talking about anyone in Drigung.
I guess you weren't responding to BryanDavis and my back and forth.
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Jinzang
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Re: Death at Tibetan Buddhist meditation retreat in Arizona

Post by Jinzang » Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:12 am

I understand that three year retreats in the East have fallen apart because of conflicts between the retreatants or problems with the retreat master. This is not something which has only happened in the West.
"It's as plain as the nose on your face!" Dottie Primrose

Crazywisdom
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Re: Death at Tibetan Buddhist meditation retreat in Arizona

Post by Crazywisdom » Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:32 am

bryandavis wrote:Gar Rinpoche holds nothing back. He is constantly giving pointing out instructions. He freely gives pith instruction on tummo / vajra recitation / working with winds etc. He goes to the essence of the teachings in an unelaborated style. If anyone has ever asked him practice related question in person he spills his heart that is for sure. But his Dharma is very nfluenced by his life situation / prison / Khenpo Munsel etc.
That stuff is all nice, but as you yourself noticed that stuff is not the actual Drikung Kagyu stuff. He's very open about a lot, but not the Chakrasamvara tantra, five-fold path Mahamudra, Six Yogas of Naropa, Etc.
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bryandavis
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Re: Death at Tibetan Buddhist meditation retreat in Arizona

Post by bryandavis » Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:37 am

That stuff is all nice, but as you yourself noticed that stuff is not the actual Drikung Kagyu stuff. He's very open about a lot, but not the Chakrasamvara tantra, five-fold path Mahamudra, Six Yogas of Naropa, Etc.
He did not study six yogas in depth, his words not mine. This is why he does not teach it. During a teaching on tsa,lung,tigle, Gar Rinpoche said that if you want to learn these things in the context of the six yogas then go to Traga Rinpoche since he studied and mastered them. As well, Gar Rinpoche did not establish the Demchok retreat in Arizona. Drupon Rinchen Dorje was instrumental in that, as he is the Drupon there and wanted to begin that.

When he does give a Demchok empowerment, the commentary I have heard on audio, and the transcript I have read are full of detail that I wish I would have received during retreat.

As well, the Yamantaka Terma that Nub Sangye Yeshe hid and was later revealed is Given all over the world by Garchen. That is considered an extremely precious lineage that Drikung holds and Gar Rinpoche was criticized by some for letting lay sangha participate.

If his main practices were demchok, six yogas, five fold path etc. he would not keep them under lock and key.

He gives the Ganges Mahamudra often which is the heart of Drikung when it comes to Mahamudra practice instructions.

But, yes it is still conservative in drikung, as it is in many lineages.

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heart
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Re: Death at Tibetan Buddhist meditation retreat in Arizona

Post by heart » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:48 am

conebeckham wrote:
heart wrote:
bryandavis wrote: Is it true that one must ordain as a monastic before entering a Kamtsang retreat?
Of course not, it just layman's vows for the duration of the retreat.

/magnus
Not in Kalu Rinpoche's tradition, Magnus--the vows are more than Upasaka vows...same as with KTD retreats in the West. They're not full Gelong vows...but they are fairly strict.
I am just saying what my friends that did the Kalu Rinpoche style 3-year retreat told me. Layman vows that exclude sex for the duration of the retreat.

/magnus
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conebeckham
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Re: Death at Tibetan Buddhist meditation retreat in Arizona

Post by conebeckham » Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:42 pm

heart wrote:
I am just saying what my friends that did the Kalu Rinpoche style 3-year retreat told me. Layman vows that exclude sex for the duration of the retreat.
Actually, Magnus, I may have been mistaken.

From discussions, the vows that were taken were like the Nyung Nes vows, which are sort of like Upasaka Vows, but not full monastic vows. Celibacy is part of that, for sure. There were SoJong ceremonies on appropriate days as well (today, for instance, is a SoJong day!)
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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heart
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Re: Death at Tibetan Buddhist meditation retreat in Arizona

Post by heart » Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:37 am

conebeckham wrote:
heart wrote:
I am just saying what my friends that did the Kalu Rinpoche style 3-year retreat told me. Layman vows that exclude sex for the duration of the retreat.
Actually, Magnus, I may have been mistaken.

From discussions, the vows that were taken were like the Nyung Nes vows, which are sort of like Upasaka Vows, but not full monastic vows. Celibacy is part of that, for sure. There were SoJong ceremonies on appropriate days as well (today, for instance, is a SoJong day!)
There you go, sojong vows. There are actually no other time limited celibacy vows in the Tibetan tradition.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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conebeckham
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Re: Death at Tibetan Buddhist meditation retreat in Arizona

Post by conebeckham » Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:32 pm

heart wrote: There you go, sojong vows. There are actually no other time limited celibacy vows in the Tibetan tradition.

/magnus
Yeah, the understanding was that these would be kept for the duration of the retreat, and that they could decide to mentally give them back, or hold them, when retreat ended.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

Crazywisdom
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Re: Death at Tibetan Buddhist meditation retreat in Arizona

Post by Crazywisdom » Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:56 pm

bryandavis wrote:
That stuff is all nice, but as you yourself noticed that stuff is not the actual Drikung Kagyu stuff. He's very open about a lot, but not the Chakrasamvara tantra, five-fold path Mahamudra, Six Yogas of Naropa, Etc.
He did not study six yogas in depth, his words not mine. This is why he does not teach it. During a teaching on tsa,lung,tigle, Gar Rinpoche said that if you want to learn these things in the context of the six yogas then go to Traga Rinpoche since he studied and mastered them. As well, Gar Rinpoche did not establish the Demchok retreat in Arizona. Drupon Rinchen Dorje was instrumental in that, as he is the Drupon there and wanted to begin that.

When he does give a Demchok empowerment, the commentary I have heard on audio, and the transcript I have read are full of detail that I wish I would have received during retreat.

As well, the Yamantaka Terma that Nub Sangye Yeshe hid and was later revealed is Given all over the world by Garchen. That is considered an extremely precious lineage that Drikung holds and Gar Rinpoche was criticized by some for letting lay sangha participate.

If his main practices were demchok, six yogas, five fold path etc. he would not keep them under lock and key.

He gives the Ganges Mahamudra often which is the heart of Drikung when it comes to Mahamudra practice instructions.

But, yes it is still conservative in drikung, as it is in many lineages.
Drupon Rinchen Dorje is one of my teachers. I took empowerment from him and did retreat with him. He's a very strong yogi. I love him very much.
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dzogchungpa
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Re: Death at Tibetan Buddhist meditation retreat in Arizona

Post by dzogchungpa » Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:09 pm

If you focus on an object, you are not meditating. - Dudjom Rinpoche

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conebeckham
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Re: Death at Tibetan Buddhist meditation retreat in Arizona

Post by conebeckham » Wed May 20, 2015 9:18 pm

http://www.tricycle.com/feature/obsessi ... ightenment

Tricycle's put this up, from the book.....I've not read the book, but this is more detailed than what I'd previously heard...and quite sad.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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