Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

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WeiHan
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Post by WeiHan » Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:43 pm

ShineeSeoul wrote:
do you have the link of their appearance in China's TV?

if they are linked to China, which I believe it is..why would China create a group who have different beliefes than the rest of Chinese Mahayana?
Thats wierd also
http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/F6JeOfNwlM0/

WeiHan
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Post by WeiHan » Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:52 pm

ShineeSeoul wrote:
I don't want to go to further debate about this thing...its not related to topic
If you do not wish to debate, then you should not bring up those points and expect people to accept it quietly.

Urgyen Dorje
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Post by Urgyen Dorje » Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:10 pm

It's sort of strange to me that as soon as we start talking about integrating sexuality into our practice that our calibration point becomes karmamudra, the path of the lower door, which requires a tremendous amount of training as a foundation. There's a huge amount of bandwidth between just not attempting to bring sex on the path and karmamudra, and it's puzzling to me why we don't like to go there.

I mean, we can practice the mahayana path with our sexuality. We can practice generosity by being a giving lover. We can practice patience by being a patient lover. We can practice ethics by exercising restraint. We can use our sexuality to generate love and compassion. We can use sex to training in impermanence. We can train in seeing ourselves and our partner as the deity, and we can train in nongrapsing. We can enhance our meditation. We can try to recognize clear light. We can make an offering of the experience. Whatever instructions we have and work with while NOT having sex, we can work with while having sex.

Yet, karmamudra becomes the immediate calibration point, which is relevant only for monastics who are celibate, and less relevant for your average lay practitioner getting laid.

In the end we may just end up in a sweaty quivery pile of human flesh, but we've at least made the aspiration and motivation to integrate the experience. Maybe we integrate to a point and then get overwhelmed by the experience and lose our practice, but again, we've made the aspiration and made the attmept to take it on the path.

The altenreative is to have sex and just have it be this awkward part of Buddhist lay life that we have no idea what to do with.

Just my thoughts.

Malcolm
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Post by Malcolm » Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:46 pm

ShineeSeoul wrote:
I don't want to create controversies by answering this question, because my opinion based on Mahayana Buddhism..therefore, I think sex cannot be part of enligthment path, as Buddha has said in Pali Tripitaka as will as Taisho tripitaka, The Tibetan tantras have additional scriptures, which believe in transfering the negative energy into positive one which is enlightment..however, according to other sources, Buddha has cut everything to reach enlightment, he won't engage in sex, or any other sexual form, including tantric one, to avoid attachment as will as negative Karma that might be the result
The Buddha taught three paths: the path of renunciation which is common to Hinayāna and Mahāyāna; the path of transformation which is general Vajrayāna and the path of self-liberation, which is also termed Atiyoga.

The principles of the higher paths often seem to contradict the principles of the lower paths, but in reality, they are all aiming at the same point, buddhahood. If someone does not have faith in a path, for example, karmamudra, they should leave it aside and not criticize it, because many masters in India and Tibet have attained complete buddhahood through practicing this path. One should be careful not to criticize Vajrayāna teachings, because one will abandon the Dharma if one does so.

A Ah Sha Sa Ma Ha
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Post by A Ah Sha Sa Ma Ha » Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:59 pm

Buddha was at one time married and had a son...let alone a concubine . Maybe he knew how hard it would be for others to give up sex, and not ever be interested in meditation or searching for truth, because they'd be preoccupied with women and other distractions. He'd been there done that, so maybe he was trying to help other men and their weaknesses, by teaching celibacy to those that would never find the time to learn Dharma. Then there are those that have the capacity to learn Dharma without renouncing worldly things. He was a Genius.

theanarchist
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Post by theanarchist » Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:13 pm

Kunga Lhadzom wrote: Then there are those that have the capacity to learn Dharma without renouncing worldly things. He was a Genius.

Have you ever thought that a lot of people got seriously interested in practicing dharma only after they have married/started a family. In those days getting married was not exactly voluntary either. Young men and women were very often not given a choice, marriages were arranged and happened at a young age.

A Ah Sha Sa Ma Ha
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Post by A Ah Sha Sa Ma Ha » Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:20 pm

theanarchist wrote:
Kunga Lhadzom wrote: Then there are those that have the capacity to learn Dharma without renouncing worldly things. He was a Genius.

Have you ever thought that a lot of people got seriously interested in practicing dharma only after they have married/started a family. In those days getting married was not exactly voluntary either. Young men and women were very often not given a choice, marriages were arranged and happened at a young age.

Yes...isn't that kinda like what happened to Buddha ? After he went outside the confinements of his palace, and saw the reality of sickness, old age and death...it prompted him to find a way out of such sufferings....it was more important for him to find the solution to end all suffering, than it was to waste his precious time relaxing in the palace....he also saw in horror how even the women in the palace looked so ugly as they laid around passed out with their lipstick all smeared across their face.....lol

Also, yes...in India it's usually the last stage of your life where you start the spiritual journey...as you've completed the householder's life commitments....

http://hinduism.about.com/od/basics/p/fourstages.htm

daelm
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Post by daelm » Mon Jul 20, 2015 5:39 pm

Indrajala wrote:[
There has been opposition to the Dalai Lama coming to Taiwan. Ven. Xingyun the chief of Foguangshan went on national television and said he opposed the Dalai Lama visiting Taiwan. That's significant because he's the grand master of the largest Chinese Buddhist organization in the world.
FGS has a vested interest in rapprochment with the mainland. it would be interesting to understand whether that was part of what drove taking these positions, especially in light of relations becoming better between Taiwan and the PRC over the last few years.

daelm
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Post by daelm » Mon Jul 20, 2015 5:56 pm

ShineeSeoul wrote:
BrianG wrote:
ShineeSeoul wrote: all of these sex images and whatever sex thing that presented in tibetan buddhism for indicating on other things that has nothing to do with sex as your statement above, it is still not Buddhist...these ideas taken from Hinduism and they use the same thing, but different terms
It's Buddhist. Consort practice was introduced by Mahasiddhas(Buddhist Yogis), who received the teaching from the Buddha.
Padmasambava has nothing to do with Buddha...he was a hindu yogi and mahasiddha, which is similiar to shiva and shakti tantric concept..just change the name and the terms to buddhist, such as bodhisatava..bodhi..etc..Lord Buddha never make or teach anything in secret..nor sexual...these beliefes that so called desire can be switched to enlightment is so absured, and have nothing to do with original buddha teaching that is found in Agamas, or Nikayas
nope fella. you're so far wrong it's not funny. whatever you believe from the various schools' own histories, the vajrayana was developed and formulated in India, right in the middle of Classical Indian Buddhism and a very natural expression of it. in fact vajrayana is embedded in the extensive and sophisticated development of the prajnaparamita literature in India. it adds to it a body of technique that is unparalleled in the history of Buddhism anywhere.

you might regard personally it as an invalid extension of Buddhism, but you're on shaky ground there. whatever you like or don't like about the vajrayana, there's no question that it represented the flowering of Classical Indian Buddhism.

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ShineeSeoul
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Post by ShineeSeoul » Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:34 pm

WeiHan wrote:
ShineeSeoul wrote:
do you have the link of their appearance in China's TV?

if they are linked to China, which I believe it is..why would China create a group who have different beliefes than the rest of Chinese Mahayana?
Thats wierd also
http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/F6JeOfNwlM0/
Thanks for the link...is zhengjue the one who is wearing suit?

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ShineeSeoul
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Post by ShineeSeoul » Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:37 pm

WeiHan wrote:
ShineeSeoul wrote:
I don't want to go to further debate about this thing...its not related to topic
If you do not wish to debate, then you should not bring up those points and expect people to accept it quietly.
I wasn't insist to any to accept my opinion...simply I am answering the question...didn't want to go further because its not related to topic

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ShineeSeoul
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Post by ShineeSeoul » Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:42 pm

daelm wrote:
Indrajala wrote:[
There has been opposition to the Dalai Lama coming to Taiwan. Ven. Xingyun the chief of Foguangshan went on national television and said he opposed the Dalai Lama visiting Taiwan. That's significant because he's the grand master of the largest Chinese Buddhist organization in the world.
FGS has a vested interest in rapprochment with the mainland. it would be interesting to understand whether that was part of what drove taking these positions, especially in light of relations becoming better between Taiwan and the PRC over the last few years.
Hsing Yun once has stated there is no Taiwanese in Taiwan, hahah thats ridiculous..its clearly he is trying hard to please China...I feel sorry for that guy for changing the good method he has begin with, to patheticly trying to please the oppressor for the sake of growing his order

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Zhen Li
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Post by Zhen Li » Tue Jul 21, 2015 5:32 am

ShineeSeoul wrote:Hsing Yun once has stated there is no Taiwanese in Taiwan, hahah thats ridiculous..its clearly he is trying hard to please China...I feel sorry for that guy for changing the good method he has begin with, to patheticly trying to please the oppressor for the sake of growing his order
Well, Taiwan is not a country, it's the Republic of China, so technically everyone there is Chinese. From one perspective, this is fairly tolerant, and allows a multitude of people to live under one banner, regardless of ethnicity - aborigines, Han, Min, Hakka, European ex-pats (i.e. Chinese does not equal a race/ethnicity). Just to put this in a different perspective, this is somewhat like how many foreigners come to America, and simply want to be considered "American." In the US, people who oppose that kind of assimilation are often viewed as bigots, or racialists. But the standards don't change which it comes to the ROC. When Master Hsing Yun goes to the US, he says he's American, when he's in the ROC, he's Chinese. This is fairly simple. That being said, I am open minded about Taiwanese independence. But as it is, there is no nation of Taiwan, and the ROC, the PRC, and the USA all agree on the One China Policy, i.e. status quo.

In the end, I think that there's really no need to be so pessimistic and negative about everything. Often, the harm we perceive is all in our own mind, and when we are willing to look at things from a different point of view, we can see that the intention was compassion. This doesn't mean turn a blind eye to injustice, but rather, have a clear minded view of what real injustice is. Injustice, from another perspective, is not treating all citizens of the ROC as equally Chinese, regardless of ethnicity. So, sometimes we just have to be willing to accept that the world isn't black and white, villains and heroes.

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ShineeSeoul
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Post by ShineeSeoul » Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:01 am

Zhen Li wrote:
ShineeSeoul wrote:Hsing Yun once has stated there is no Taiwanese in Taiwan, hahah thats ridiculous..its clearly he is trying hard to please China...I feel sorry for that guy for changing the good method he has begin with, to patheticly trying to please the oppressor for the sake of growing his order
Well, Taiwan is not a country, it's the Republic of China, so technically everyone there is Chinese. From one perspective, this is fairly tolerant, and allows a multitude of people to live under one banner, regardless of ethnicity - aborigines, Han, Min, Hakka, European ex-pats (i.e. Chinese does not equal a race/ethnicity). Just to put this in a different perspective, this is somewhat like how many foreigners come to America, and simply want to be considered "American." In the US, people who oppose that kind of assimilation are often viewed as bigots, or racialists. But the standards don't change which it comes to the ROC. When Master Hsing Yun goes to the US, he says he's American, when he's in the ROC, he's Chinese. This is fairly simple. That being said, I am open minded about Taiwanese independence. But as it is, there is no nation of Taiwan, and the ROC, the PRC, and the USA all agree on the One China Policy, i.e. status quo.

In the end, I think that there's really no need to be so pessimistic and negative about everything. Often, the harm we perceive is all in our own mind, and when we are willing to look at things from a different point of view, we can see that the intention was compassion. This doesn't mean turn a blind eye to injustice, but rather, have a clear minded view of what real injustice is. Injustice, from another perspective, is not treating all citizens of the ROC as equally Chinese, regardless of ethnicity. So, sometimes we just have to be willing to accept that the world isn't black and white, villains and heroes.
He is clearly trying to please china regardless of this thing...he has opposed HHDL visit to Taiwan, which he as a buddhist monk, shouldn't do so...he is doing this thing for the sake of growing his order to include PRC citizen...in short, thats not ethical thing at the end...we shouldn't turn blind eye to the abuses, if we do so, it will continue further

theanarchist
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Post by theanarchist » Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:06 am

Kunga Lhadzom wrote:
Yes...isn't that kinda like what happened to Buddha ? After he went outside the confinements of his palace, and saw the reality of sickness, old age and death...it prompted him to find a way out of such sufferings....it was more important for him to find the solution to end all suffering, than it was to waste his precious time relaxing in the palace....he also saw in horror how even the women in the palace looked so ugly as they laid around passed out with their lipstick all smeared across their face.....lol

Also, yes...in India it's usually the last stage of your life where you start the spiritual journey...as you've completed the householder's life commitments....

http://hinduism.about.com/od/basics/p/fourstages.htm

But Gautama was a prince. His wife and child wouldn't starve because he refused to support his family. I doubt he would have left them if he had known that they would be socially shunned and condemned to a life in utter poverty if he left them.

He was in the comfortable situation that he could leave his family without doing considerable harm to them.

A Ah Sha Sa Ma Ha
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Post by A Ah Sha Sa Ma Ha » Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:51 pm

Yes, exactly.

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Zhen Li
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Post by Zhen Li » Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:33 pm

ShineeSeoul wrote:He is clearly trying to please china regardless of this thing...he has opposed HHDL visit to Taiwan, which he as a buddhist monk, shouldn't do so...he is doing this thing for the sake of growing his order to include PRC citizen...in short, thats not ethical thing at the end...we shouldn't turn blind eye to the abuses, if we do so, it will continue further
Ven. Master Hsing Yun has met with the Dalai Lama a number of times, and even hosted him. Here are his comments on the topic of HHDL:
Taiwan monk urges China to befriend Dalai Lama wrote: "It's a very good thing the Dalai Lama's envoys can come. It's also a very good thing China is willing to accept (them)." ...
"The Dalai Lama is Tibet's spiritual leader. Politically, (China) should turn (him) from an enemy into a friend," Hsing Yun said in an interview.
Hsing Yun said he did not understand recent events in Tibet but called for "mutual respect and tolerance" between China and the Dalai Lama, who fled into exile in India in 1959 after an abortive uprising against Chinese rule.
Asked what he thought of the Dalai Lama, Hsing Yun said they have met several times and he found the 1989 Nobel Peace Prize laureate to be "optimistic, bright and cheerful, always wearing a smile and easy to get along with".
Hsing Yun urged China to take the Dalai Lama seriously, saying the Tibetan god-king is "very sincere" when he says he wants autonomy, not independence, for his homeland, albeit China does not believe him.
Besides this matter, it is hardly unethical to include PRC citizens in one's order. The Dharma should be spread, especially to where people are most hungry for it, which especially means China. This is just part of the practice of a Bodhisattva.
:anjali:

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Karma Dondrup Tashi
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Post by Karma Dondrup Tashi » Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:56 pm

smcj wrote:If the eating, sleeping, waking and defecating yogas were somehow equivalent to karmamudra then there would be plenty of thankas of deities eating, sleeping and defecating. Karmamudra is different.
The yab yum thangkas are not depictions of karma mudra. Among other things, they depict an understanding of the phenomenal world as the union of bliss with emptiness.

Your view is like saying we should drink the brains of our enemies from their skullcaps.

smcj
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Post by smcj » Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:27 pm

The yab yum thangkas are not depictions of karma mudra.
They're not?
Among other things, they depict an understanding of the phenomenal world as the union of bliss with emptiness.
That understanding, with a number of variations, is what karmamudra is enacting. As I've said all along, consort practice is not sex.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)

Malcolm
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Post by Malcolm » Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:42 pm

smcj wrote:As I've said all along, consort practice is not sex.
I think you really have never received instructions for this practice. If you had, you would have understood that it is also called "taking desire into the path."

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