But in Tantra, how would you ever transmute an affliction into it's wisdom without even going near the affliction itself?
If you are not capable of transmuting an affliction you shun them and the situations that give rise to them.
No, Vajrayāna is not a path of giving up sense desires.
What I said was that if you are not capable of transmuting an affliction you should shun them and the situations that give rise to them. I did not say that this was the approach of the Vajrayana.
If you are an advanced practitioner and are capable of transmuting an affliction into wisdom--which is an extraordinary accomplishment--then you can get near the affliction. Once transmuted it is no longer a poison, but now a medicine, an expression of the enlightened mind. But in either scenario the affliction is never simply indulged in as an affliction per se. That is Vajrayana 101.
No. All appearances are the deity. All sounds are mantra. All thoughts are wisdom. This is Vajrayana 101.
So are you saying that an affliction, such as anger, can be indulged/acted upon on the level of affliction and call it Vajrayana?
The path of transformation means that you do not reject things that cause afflictions to arise; you utilize those things and through the practice of creation stage, transform them. For example, the yoga eating food, the yoga of sleep, washing and so on.
Yes, as you say, the "path of transformation"--as in transforming
an affliction into a wisdom.
The fact is that it is really hard to keep this conversation simple, as it touches upon some very complex themes.
Funny, I think it is very simple. It's not complicated unless you're avoiding the obvious conclusions.
But, in short, it probably boils down to the fact that there are many incompatible paths which lead to the same destination. Since the destination is the same (presumably), we all tend to try to make the paths compatible somehow. But they are not. And this is not a problem.
No, actually the Nyingma 9 yana schema is one way to view it as all paths being compatible. And that view is from the direction of unawareness towards awareness. The same can be said of the view of awareness looking back on unawareness from the enlightened perspective. "All practices are subsumed under the Dzogchen view" (not an exact quote) and of course my favorite; the 1 yana view. (Malcolm hates it.)
.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
: Even If you had
died the 3 Jewels would still
have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)