Kalacakra Root Tantra

Discuss and learn about the traditional Mahayana scriptures, without assuming that any one school ‘owns’ the only correct interpretation.
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Nicholas Weeks
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Kalacakra Root Tantra

Postby Nicholas Weeks » Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:46 pm

Another section of the mulatantra has been traced; see the July 9 blog entry:

http://prajnaquest.fr/blog/
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Buddha in the Surangamasamadhi Sutra

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Malcolm
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Re: Kalacakra Root Tantra

Postby Malcolm » Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:22 pm

Nicholas Weeks wrote:Another section of the mulatantra has been traced; see the July 9 blog entry:

http://prajnaquest.fr/blog/



Nice find. I would amend his translation of the cited verse as follows however:

sems can sems nyid ‘od gsal zhing |
gdod nas skye ‘gag gnas bral te |
thog ma med pa’i sngon rol nas |
dang po mchog gi sangs rgyas te |
rgyu med rkyen gyis ma bslad pa |

    The mind essence of sentient beings is luminosity,
    from the start free of arising, ceasing and abiding.
    From the beginningless past
    the adibuddha
    lacks a cause and is uncontaminated by conditions.
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Crazywisdom
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Re: Kalacakra Root Tantra

Postby Crazywisdom » Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:18 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Nicholas Weeks wrote:Another section of the mulatantra has been traced; see the July 9 blog entry:

http://prajnaquest.fr/blog/



Nice find. I would amend his translation of the cited verse as follows however:

sems can sems nyid ‘od gsal zhing |
gdod nas skye ‘gag gnas bral te |
thog ma med pa’i sngon rol nas |
dang po mchog gi sangs rgyas te |
rgyu med rkyen gyis ma bslad pa |

    The mind essence of sentient beings is luminosity,
    from the start free of arising, ceasing and abiding.
    From the beginningless past
    the adibuddha
    lacks a cause and is uncontaminated by conditions.

So this does not square w the geluk view of Buddhahood arising by conditions, no?
El Perdedor

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Malcolm
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Re: Kalacakra Root Tantra

Postby Malcolm » Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:45 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Nicholas Weeks wrote:Another section of the mulatantra has been traced; see the July 9 blog entry:

http://prajnaquest.fr/blog/



Nice find. I would amend his translation of the cited verse as follows however:

sems can sems nyid ‘od gsal zhing |
gdod nas skye ‘gag gnas bral te |
thog ma med pa’i sngon rol nas |
dang po mchog gi sangs rgyas te |
rgyu med rkyen gyis ma bslad pa |

    The mind essence of sentient beings is luminosity,
    from the start free of arising, ceasing and abiding.
    From the beginningless past
    the adibuddha
    lacks a cause and is uncontaminated by conditions.

So this does not square w the geluk view of Buddhahood arising by conditions, no?


The Gelugpa would argue the mind essence here, luminosity, is their mind of clear light, which they regard as a permanent continuum which has no first cause, thus it is without a cause; and is not altered by conditions.
Atikosha
Tibetan Medicine Blog
Sudarsana Mandala, Tibetan Medicine and Herbs
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


There is neither sharp nor dull in the capacity of sentient beings. If it is asked why this is so, it is because an introduction is sufficient.


— Self-Liberated Vidyā Tantra

Crazywisdom
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Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 5:48 pm

Re: Kalacakra Root Tantra

Postby Crazywisdom » Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:04 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Crazywisdom wrote:
Malcolm wrote:

Nice find. I would amend his translation of the cited verse as follows however:

sems can sems nyid ‘od gsal zhing |
gdod nas skye ‘gag gnas bral te |
thog ma med pa’i sngon rol nas |
dang po mchog gi sangs rgyas te |
rgyu med rkyen gyis ma bslad pa |

    The mind essence of sentient beings is luminosity,
    from the start free of arising, ceasing and abiding.
    From the beginningless past
    the adibuddha
    lacks a cause and is uncontaminated by conditions.

So this does not square w the geluk view of Buddhahood arising by conditions, no?


The Gelugpa would argue the mind essence here, luminosity, is their mind of clear light, which they regard as a permanent continuum which has no first cause, thus it is without a cause; and is not altered by conditions.

So the condition come into recognizing right?
El Perdedor

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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: Kalacakra Root Tantra

Postby Nicholas Weeks » Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:58 pm

David Reigle, who wrote what is in the OP link may respond later today. For now, here is what he wrote in an email:

It is not my translation that Malcolm amended, it is Lobsang Lhalungpa's. I, too, thought that it was a bit too loose. I quite agree with Malcolm's amended translation, and am very glad that he made it.

The 2015 translation of it by Traleg Kyabgon in Moonbeams of Mahamudra, being an oral translation (as said on the title page), is considerably more loose than Lhalungpa's, so I did not refer to it.
A man should not judge a man, for he harms himself very quickly, that man who judges a man. Only I or someone like me can assess a man.

Buddha in the Surangamasamadhi Sutra

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anjali
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Re: Kalacakra Root Tantra

Postby anjali » Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:03 am

Mod note: Posts on Blavatsky, Tarot and Tibet split to here.
All things are unworthy of clinging to (sabbe dhammā nâla abhinivesāyā). --Shakyamuni Buddha
Wanting to grasp the ungraspable, you exhaust yourself in vain. --Gendun Rinpoche


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