Mahayana Sutras Already 8th Bhumi?

Discuss and learn about the traditional Mahayana scriptures, without assuming that any one school ‘owns’ the only correct interpretation.
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friendly
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Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:48 pm

Mahayana Sutras Already 8th Bhumi?

Post by friendly » Thu May 21, 2020 3:35 am

May I ask question of expert people here? I am studying university Buddhist studies (now online because Covid-19). This paper makes statements. I wonder if people agree or disagree.


Mahāyāna Sūtras
David Drewes University of Manitoba

https://www.academia.edu/10716233/Mahay ... dated_2019_
Several scholars have claimed that early Mahāyāna sūtras depict the bodhisattva path as
extremely difficult, or even “grueling,” but this is not at all the case. Certainly this is how the
path was, and still is, envisioned by non-Mahāyānists, but Mahāyāna sūtra authors, going back to
the earliest known texts, devoted much of their considerable theoretical acumen to devising ways
for their followers to traverse the path quickly and easily. First, the doctrine that users of
Mahāyāna sūtras were already irreversible or nearly irreversible, which we have just discussed [people who believe in or are not frightened by the text are already “irreversible” bodhisattvas who have already received predictions to Buddhahood from Buddhas
in past lives, assuring their eventual attainment of Buddhahood],
meant that most of their difficulty was in the past. Mahāyāna sūtras and śāstras that make use of
the scheme of ten bhūmis, or stages, of the bodhisattva path generally place the attainment of
irreversibility on the eighth stage, which would mean that they were already about eighty percent
of the way to Buddhahood. Along with this head-start, Mahāyāna authors developed several
creatively conceived shortcuts to enable their users to complete the remainder of the path with
little effort. These shortcuts focus primarily on the acquisition of merit (puṇya), the universal
currency of the Buddhist world, a vast quantity of which was believed to be necessary for the
attainment of Buddhahood. [ ] Although Mahāyāna sūtras often recommend anumodanā and pure-land practices, the
shortcuts they mention by far the most frequently are ones involving the use of Mahāyāna sūtras
themselves: listening to them, memorizing them, reciting them, preaching them, copying them,
and worshipping them. [ ]Overall, between their claim that their followers are already irreversible and the shortcut
methods they advocate, Mahāyāna sūtra authors present a path to Buddhahood that can be
completed with no real difficulty in as little as two lifetimes.
So, anyone believing faith in Mahayana sutra already at 8th stage? Just faith in Sutra is shortcut method?

Sādhaka
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Re: Mahayana Sutras Already 8th Bhumi?

Post by Sādhaka » Thu May 21, 2020 4:52 am

Patrul Rinpoche wrote:Eighth Bhūmi

“At the lesser of the three greater levels of the path of meditation, the pāramitā of strength is perfected. All the obscurations associated with lack of strength are purified.

“Twelve sets of qualities are gained, such as the ability to enter into and arise from, in a single instant, as many samādhi meditations as there are atoms in a hundred thousand great universes of a thousand worlds.

“One can take birth as a ruler over a first-order universe of a thousand realms.

“This eighth bhūmi is called ‘Immovable’, because bodhisattvas who have reached this stage cannot be moved by discerning or non-discerning perceptions. Their five senses and emotional mind are transformed, they gain access to pure realms and make evident both the all-accomplishing wisdom and the wisdom of discernment.”

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Grigoris
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Re: Mahayana Sutras Already 8th Bhumi?

Post by Grigoris » Thu May 21, 2020 8:05 am

friendly wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 3:35 am
So, anyone believing faith in Mahayana sutra already at 8th stage? Just faith in Sutra is shortcut method?
What do you think?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

friendly
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:48 pm

Re: Mahayana Sutras Already 8th Bhumi?

Post by friendly » Thu May 21, 2020 10:40 am

Grigoris wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 8:05 am
friendly wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 3:35 am
So, anyone believing faith in Mahayana sutra already at 8th stage? Just faith in Sutra is shortcut method?
What do you think?
I do not know well other tradition, Tibetan views. etc. So I ask.

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Grigoris
Former staff member
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Location: Greece

Re: Mahayana Sutras Already 8th Bhumi?

Post by Grigoris » Thu May 21, 2020 11:02 am

friendly wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 10:40 am
I do not know well other tradition, Tibetan views. etc. So I ask.
I asked for your opinion on the statement, not what other people/traditions are saying. You are writing/studying this, so you must have some opinion.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

friendly
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:48 pm

Re: Mahayana Sutras Already 8th Bhumi?

Post by friendly » Thu May 21, 2020 4:27 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 11:02 am
friendly wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 10:40 am
I do not know well other tradition, Tibetan views. etc. So I ask.
I asked for your opinion on the statement, not what other people/traditions are saying. You are writing/studying this, so you must have some opinion.
I am Zen student who believe that Zazen leaps beyond Bhumis, Pure Land believe faith in Amida Buddha does same. But that just my opinion. Essay says that there is such short roads.

I wanted opinion of others who study this more.

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