Versions of the Sutta-Nipata

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doubledragon
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Versions of the Sutta-Nipata

Post by doubledragon » Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:59 am

I can't remember where I read that Thich Nhat Nanh recommended as basic daily reading the Bhaddekaratta Sutta (from the Majjhima Nikaya) and the Sutta Nipata, so I downloaded the pdf version in Buddhanet of the latter, an Australian version by Lesley Fowler Lebkowicz and Tamara Ditrich.

About a couple of weeks ago, I received a 1924 edition of Max Müller's "Dhammapada" with V. Fausböll's "Sutta-Nipata," and to my dismay I could see that Buddhanet's "Sutta-Nipata" and Fausböll's are totally different. :crying:

While Fausböll's edition is divided in Suttas and runs well into the 200 pages, the Buddhanet version is divided into chapters by subject (e.g. "On desire," "The Cave") and is a brief 56 pages. The spirit of the word is there, but they are basically two different books.

Could any of the members who is well-versed in both versions help me figure out which chapter in the Buddhanet version matches which sutta in the original by Fausböll?
Or is this version to be completely dismissed as a Sutta-Nipata?

Thank you very much for your answers! :bow:

mikenz66
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Re: Versions of the Sutta-Nipata

Post by mikenz66 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:39 pm

Hi DoubleDragon,

Most of the Sutta Nipata is here: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... index.html
A different tranlation of the fifth chapter is here: http://suttacentral.net/sp

There are some other translation of the 4th and 5th chapters out there as well.
See also:
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=13542
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=11562
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=12666

We discussed the Sutta Nipata over on Dhamma Wheel in various threads. This search will take you to some of them:
https://www.google.co.th/search?q=site: ... S:official

:anjali:
Mike

mikenz66
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Re: Versions of the Sutta-Nipata

Post by mikenz66 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:43 pm

And Bhikkhu Bodhi has some talks on a few of the Suttas here: http://bodhimonastery.org/sutta-nipata.html

:anjali:
Mike

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doubledragon
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Re: Versions of the Sutta-Nipata

Post by doubledragon » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:50 pm

Thank you, Mike!
These links are most useful. So looks like the Buddhanet translation came out of nowhere... :namaste:

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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: Versions of the Sutta-Nipata

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:56 pm

This magnificent work of scholarship by Bhikkhu Bodhi, titled The Suttanipata, from Wisdom pubs. just arrived.

About 200pp of the Suttanipata root text, preceded by 130pp of Introduction and a Guide to the suttas. Then the major part, almost a 1000pp of the Paramatthajotika II commentary, with substantial excerpts from the Niddesa. Finally, his usual copious notes, three appendices, glossary, bibliography, and indexes for the last 300pp.
Last edited by Nicholas Weeks on Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Distrust everyone in whom the impulse to punish is powerful!
Nietzsche

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jkarlins
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Re: Versions of the Sutta-Nipata

Post by jkarlins » Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:10 pm

Dhammatalks.org has extensive online suttas, and you can order hard copies for a donation.

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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: Versions of the Sutta-Nipata

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:13 pm

One of 70 sutta jewels in this beauteous collection of Buddha's teachings:
4.8 Being Overbold, the Disadvantages of Debate
Pasura Sutta

They say: “In our Dharma purity’s found”
but deny that it is found in the Dharma of others.
On what they depend they say “it’s the best”,
and so settle down in their individual truths. ₈₃₁

Those disputants into the assembly rush,
and perceive opposedly “the other” as a fool.
But in disputes, on others they rely—
these so-called experts ever-loving praise. ₈₃₂

Engrossed in conflict midst the assembly,
fearing defeat, they wish only for praise,
having been refuted, that one’s truly confused,
angry at blame seeks weakness in the other. ₈₃₃

“Through investigation is your argument
refuted and destroyed”—so they say.
That one grieves and laments—that mere arguer,
“Oh! I am overcome” that person wails. ₈₃₄

Arisen among monks—those controversies
among them cause both elation and depression.
Refrain therefore, from disputation!
No meaning’s in it save the prize of praise. ₈₃₅

Praised in the midst of the assembly
for the presentation of arguments,
then that one laughs, or else is haughty.
So they say, “Conceited by winning debate”. ₈₃₆

Though haughtiness will be ground for a downfall,
still proudly that one speaks, and with arrogance:
this having seen, refrain from disputations—
not by that is there purity, so the skilled say. ₈₃₇

Just as a strong man, fed
upon royal food, might roar forth,
wishing for a champion rival,
but finds from the first there’s nought to fight. ₈₃₈

Those holding a view and disputing, say thus:
“This alone is the truth”, so they aver;
then reply to them: “But no one’s here
to retaliate through disputation”. ₈₃₉

They continue with their practice, offering no opposition
against others, offering no view opposed to view.
But then, Pasūra, what would you obtain?
For them there is nothing to be grasped as the highest. ₈₄₀

As you’ve come here, in your mind
thinking and speculating on various views,
you have met with a Washed One
But will not be able to make progress with him. ₈₄₁
MIlls translation.
Distrust everyone in whom the impulse to punish is powerful!
Nietzsche

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Versions of the Sutta-Nipata

Post by dzogchungpa » Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:25 pm

Nicholas Weeks wrote:One of 70 sutta jewels in this beauteous collection of Buddha's teachings:
4.8 Being Overbold, the Disadvantages of Debate
Pasura Sutta

They say: “In our Dharma purity’s found”
but deny that it is found in the Dharma of others.
On what they depend they say “it’s the best”,
and so settle down in their individual truths. ₈₃₁

Those disputants into the assembly rush,
and perceive opposedly “the other” as a fool.
But in disputes, on others they rely—
these so-called experts ever-loving praise. ₈₃₂

Engrossed in conflict midst the assembly,
fearing defeat, they wish only for praise,
having been refuted, that one’s truly confused,
angry at blame seeks weakness in the other. ₈₃₃

“Through investigation is your argument
refuted and destroyed”—so they say.
That one grieves and laments—that mere arguer,
“Oh! I am overcome” that person wails. ₈₃₄

Arisen among monks—those controversies
among them cause both elation and depression.
Refrain therefore, from disputation!
No meaning’s in it save the prize of praise. ₈₃₅

Praised in the midst of the assembly
for the presentation of arguments,
then that one laughs, or else is haughty.
So they say, “Conceited by winning debate”. ₈₃₆

Though haughtiness will be ground for a downfall,
still proudly that one speaks, and with arrogance:
this having seen, refrain from disputations—
not by that is there purity, so the skilled say. ₈₃₇

Just as a strong man, fed
upon royal food, might roar forth,
wishing for a champion rival,
but finds from the first there’s nought to fight. ₈₃₈

Those holding a view and disputing, say thus:
“This alone is the truth”, so they aver;
then reply to them: “But no one’s here
to retaliate through disputation”. ₈₃₉

They continue with their practice, offering no opposition
against others, offering no view opposed to view.
But then, Pasūra, what would you obtain?
For them there is nothing to be grasped as the highest. ₈₄₀

As you’ve come here, in your mind
thinking and speculating on various views,
you have met with a Washed One
But will not be able to make progress with him. ₈₄₁
MIlls translation.
Kind of reminds me of DW.
If you focus on an object, you are not meditating. - Dudjom Rinpoche

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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: Versions of the Sutta-Nipata

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:09 am

Buddha: As nothing is grasped among various Dharmas,
so for me there is not any “This I proclaim”,
having seen but not grasped among many views,
through discernment among them I saw inner peace. ₈₄₄

Neither from views, not from learning or knowledge,
not from rites, or from vows, does purity come I say;
nor from no views, no learning, no knowledge acquired,
no rites and no vows—none of them at all,
Neither by grasping nor giving them up
is their peace unsupported, and no hunger “to be”. ₈₄₆

For one detached from perception, there exist no ties,
for one by wisdom freed, no delusions are there,
but those who have grasped perceptions and views,
they wander the world stirring up strife. ₈₅₄
4.9 844, 846 & 854
Distrust everyone in whom the impulse to punish is powerful!
Nietzsche

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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: Versions of the Sutta-Nipata

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:08 pm

Buddha describes the Muni:
IV. 10. Before the Dissolution

848. ‘Having what vision and what virtuous conduct is one called “calmed” ? Tell me this, Gotama, when you are asked about the supreme man.’
849. ‘With craving departed (even) before the dissolution of the body’, said the Blessed One, ‘not dependent upon the past, not to be reckoned in the present, for him there is nothing preferred (in the future).
850. Without anger, without trembling, not boasting, without remorse, speaking in moderation, not arrogant, he indeed is a sage restrained in speech.
851. Having no attachment to the future, he does not grieve over the past. He sees detachment in respect of sense-contacts, and is not led into (wrong) views.
852. (He is) withdrawn, not deceitful, not covetous, not avaricious, not impudent, not causing disgust, and not given to slander.
853. Without desire for pleasant things, and not given to arrogance, and gently possessing ready wit, he is not empassioned or dispassioned.
854. It is not because of love of gain that he trains himself, nor is he angry at the lack of gain. He is not opposed to craving, nor is he greedy for flavour(s),
855. (being) indifferent, always mindful. He does not think (of himself) as equal in the world. He is not superior, nor inferior. He has no haughtiness.
856. He for whom there is no Stage of dependence, knowing the doctrine, is not dependent. For whom there exists no craving for existence or non-existence,
857. in him, indifferent to sensual pleasures, I call “calmed”. In him there are no ties; he has crossed beyond attachment.
858. For him there are no sons or cattle, field(s), (or) property. For him there is nothing taken up or laid down.
859. That on account of which the common people, and ascetics and brahmans, might accuse him, is not preferred by him. Therefore he is not agitated in (the midst of) their accusations.
860. With greed gone, without avarice, a sage does not speak of himself (as being) among the superiors, or equals, or inferiors. He does not submit to figments, being without figments.
861. For whom there is nothing (called) his own in the world, and who does not grieve because of what does not exist, and does not go (astray) among mental phenomena, he truly is called “calmed”.’
Norman translation
Distrust everyone in whom the impulse to punish is powerful!
Nietzsche

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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: Versions of the Sutta-Nipata

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:09 pm

4.13 Greater Discourse on Quarrelling - Mahāviyūha Sutta

question: Regarding those people who hold to their views,
Arguing, “Only this is true!”
Should all of them be criticized,
Or are some praiseworthy also? ₉₀₂

buddha: This [praise] is a small thing, not enough for peace.
I say there are two outcomes of dispute;
Seeing this one should not dispute,
Recognizing that safety is a place without dispute. ₉₀₃
Distrust everyone in whom the impulse to punish is powerful!
Nietzsche

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