Samyukta-agama Discourse
- kalden yungdrung
- Posts: 4606
- Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:40 pm
Samyukta-agama Discourse
Tashi delek,
In the Samyukta-agama Discourse, there is an account:
Thus I have heard.
At one time the Buddha was staying in a Sala tree grove alongside the river Valgamuda, by a village of the Vrjis. At the time the Blessed One spoke to the monks on contemplating the absence of beauty ; he praised contemplating the absence of beauty (asubha), saying, “Monks, one who cultivates contemplating the absence of beauty, much cultivates it, attains great fruit and great benefit.”
Having cultivated contemplating the absence of beauty, the monks then exceedingly loathed their bodies. Some killed themselves with a knife, some took poison, some hanged themselves with a rope or committed suicide by throwing themselves down from a crag, some got another monk to kill them.
==============================
- Is this true ?
- If this is true then the audience could not understand the Teachings maybe?
In the Samyukta-agama Discourse, there is an account:
Thus I have heard.
At one time the Buddha was staying in a Sala tree grove alongside the river Valgamuda, by a village of the Vrjis. At the time the Blessed One spoke to the monks on contemplating the absence of beauty ; he praised contemplating the absence of beauty (asubha), saying, “Monks, one who cultivates contemplating the absence of beauty, much cultivates it, attains great fruit and great benefit.”
Having cultivated contemplating the absence of beauty, the monks then exceedingly loathed their bodies. Some killed themselves with a knife, some took poison, some hanged themselves with a rope or committed suicide by throwing themselves down from a crag, some got another monk to kill them.
==============================
- Is this true ?
- If this is true then the audience could not understand the Teachings maybe?
The best meditation is no meditation
- Caoimhghín
- Posts: 3419
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:35 pm
- Location: Whitby, Ontario
Re: Samyukta-agama Discourse
Do you happen to the the number of the sūtra in question or its location in the saṃyuktāgama?kalden yungdrung wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 8:59 am Tashi delek,
In the Samyukta-agama Discourse, there is an account:
Thus I have heard.
[...]
- Is this true ?
- If this is true then the audience could not understand the Teachings maybe?
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:
These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?
The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?
The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
- kalden yungdrung
- Posts: 4606
- Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:40 pm
Re: Samyukta-agama Discourse
Coëmgenu wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 4:37 pmDo you happen to the the number of the sūtra in question or its location in the saṃyuktāgama?kalden yungdrung wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 8:59 am Tashi delek,
In the Samyukta-agama Discourse, there is an account:
Thus I have heard.
[...]
- Is this true ?
- If this is true then the audience could not understand the Teachings maybe?
Tashi delek C,
Thanks for your reply.
No i do not
Got this information from a person who seems to be very well informed about Buddhist Sutras.
Therefore i have put the case here aboard, so that we can see what is true about this Sutra.
Personal am i not so well informed about Theravada Sutra.......
Personal i cannot believe that the Buddha gave a teaching and that there after , some committed suicide.
That would mean they misunderstood the message / meaning of the teaching,somehow.
The best meditation is no meditation
- kalden yungdrung
- Posts: 4606
- Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:40 pm
Re: Samyukta-agama Discourse
IN ADDITION:
Found a useful link for studying. Saw that it is really huge.
Then it is written in Sanskrit because of the Sarvāstivādins.
Agree it is very difficult to get that relevant Sutra out of 1300 short texts
https://lapislazulitexts.com/tripitaka/samyukta-agama
Found a useful link for studying. Saw that it is really huge.
Then it is written in Sanskrit because of the Sarvāstivādins.
Agree it is very difficult to get that relevant Sutra out of 1300 short texts
https://lapislazulitexts.com/tripitaka/samyukta-agama
The best meditation is no meditation
-
- Posts: 2948
- Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:37 am
-
- Posts: 374
- Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:40 pm
- Location: San Francisco, California
Re: Samyukta-agama Discourse
I'm pretty sure I've read this text before, and what you posted is just the beginning of it. After some of the monks he taught had killed themselves or otherwise died, the Buddha is informed of what happened, sort-of face-palms, and says something to the effect of, "Look, some of you apparently got the wrong message. To despise the form body and seek its extinction through karmic actions is foolish; to despise the form body and seek its cessation through the practice of dharma is right view."kalden yungdrung wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 10:35 pm IN ADDITION:
Found a useful link for studying. Saw that it is really huge.
Then it is written in Sanskrit because of the Sarvāstivādins.
Agree it is very difficult to get that relevant Sutra out of 1300 short texts
https://lapislazulitexts.com/tripitaka/samyukta-agama
This isn't an uncommon structure for an early Buddhist text, which in its basic form looks like:
A: Buddha delivers a teaching to a community
A2: The community puts that teaching into action, and this action ends up causing harm
B: Buddha scolds the community for not understanding, and gives an expanded teaching
B2: The community puts this into practice and some attain arahantship or some other attainment
Nam mô A di đà Phật
Nam mô Quan Thế Âm Bồ tát
Nam mô Đại Thế Chi Bồ Tát
Nam mô Bổn sư Thích ca mâu ni Phật
Nam mô Di lặc Bồ tát
Nam mô Địa tạng vương Bồ tát
Nam mô Quan Thế Âm Bồ tát
Nam mô Đại Thế Chi Bồ Tát
Nam mô Bổn sư Thích ca mâu ni Phật
Nam mô Di lặc Bồ tát
Nam mô Địa tạng vương Bồ tát
- kalden yungdrung
- Posts: 4606
- Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:40 pm
Re: Samyukta-agama Discourse
Sentient Light wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 6:57 pmI'm pretty sure I've read this text before, and what you posted is just the beginning of it. After some of the monks he taught had killed themselves or otherwise died, the Buddha is informed of what happened, sort-of face-palms, and says something to the effect of, "Look, some of you apparently got the wrong message. To despise the form body and seek its extinction through karmic actions is foolish; to despise the form body and seek its cessation through the practice of dharma is right view."kalden yungdrung wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 10:35 pm IN ADDITION:
Found a useful link for studying. Saw that it is really huge.
Then it is written in Sanskrit because of the Sarvāstivādins.
Agree it is very difficult to get that relevant Sutra out of 1300 short texts
https://lapislazulitexts.com/tripitaka/samyukta-agama
This isn't an uncommon structure for an early Buddhist text, which in its basic form looks like:
A: Buddha delivers a teaching to a community
A2: The community puts that teaching into action, and this action ends up causing harm
B: Buddha scolds the community for not understanding, and gives an expanded teaching
B2: The community puts this into practice and some attain arahantship or some other attainment
Tashi delek SL,
Thanks for your effort and reply.
Well then we have here something which is then a partly true story, in so far i see your reply.
Because i am not so professional qua Sutra, i could not say of this story / Sutra is a true or false interpretation of the Buddha´s Shakyamuni´s Teaching .
But i also cannot conclude at the moment which of the above mentioned points (a2 / B and B2) would be valid.
The best meditation is no meditation
Re: Samyukta-agama Discourse
See SuttaCentral, which lists them as parallels.Fortyeightvows wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 11:46 pmPretty sure the it is SN 54.9 in the pali.
SA 809 in the agamas.
https://suttacentral.net/sn54.9 Pali
https://suttacentral.net/sa809 Chinese
Mike
Re: Samyukta-agama Discourse
As Bhikkhu Bodhi notes in his translation of the sutta, the story is told in more elaborate form in the Vinaya: https://suttacentral.net/pli-tv-bu-vb-pj3
Mike
Mike
- kalden yungdrung
- Posts: 4606
- Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:40 pm
Re: Samyukta-agama Discourse
Tashi delek,
If i understood it well, then we may conclude that some monks / persons who were present at that Teaching at that time, would have misunderstood the Teaching on the ugliness of the body.
That means that the Teaching(s) of the Buddha was / were not always correct understood, regarding the lower / middle and higher level of understanding of the listeners of the audience.
Before i thought always that the teachings of the Buddha were always understood, because of the power of concentration and other siddhis the Buddha possesses.
If i understood it well, then we may conclude that some monks / persons who were present at that Teaching at that time, would have misunderstood the Teaching on the ugliness of the body.
That means that the Teaching(s) of the Buddha was / were not always correct understood, regarding the lower / middle and higher level of understanding of the listeners of the audience.
Before i thought always that the teachings of the Buddha were always understood, because of the power of concentration and other siddhis the Buddha possesses.
The best meditation is no meditation
-
- Posts: 2948
- Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:37 am
Re: Samyukta-agama Discourse
The story is about the historical buddha not the Mahayana buddha.