Vinaya doesn't prohibit smoking -tobacco-, but...

Discuss and learn about the traditional Mahayana scriptures, without assuming that any one school ‘owns’ the only correct interpretation.
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javier.espinoza.t
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Vinaya doesn't prohibit smoking -tobacco-, but...

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:27 am

I have seen this video, so i would like to ask to those of you who are more learned in the Vinaya scriptures if it is true that tobacco isn't prohibited.

And also if substances alike are so.

++ Thank you

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shaunc
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Re: Vinaya doesn't prohibit smoking -tobacco-, but...

Post by shaunc » Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:31 am

It seems to depend upon which sect. Plenty of Thai monks smoke.

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Re: Vinaya doesn't prohibit smoking -tobacco-, but...

Post by Wayfarer » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:37 am

...it’s only because it hadn’t been discovered at the time.
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Crazywisdom
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Re: Vinaya doesn't prohibit smoking -tobacco-, but...

Post by Crazywisdom » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:52 am

Tobacco is native to the Americas and was around India then or Europe. People smoked marijuana. I’m sure it would have fallen under intoxicant.
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Aryjna
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Re: Vinaya doesn't prohibit smoking -tobacco-, but...

Post by Aryjna » Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:44 pm

It is ridiculous that they smoke tobacco as it if it is not against the vinaya. It does not have to be explicitly mentioned, it is very clear that it is not allowed. Even if it was not an intoxicant, it would still not be allowed, as it serves no purpose other than pleasure.

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Aryjna
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Re: Vinaya doesn't prohibit smoking -tobacco-, but...

Post by Aryjna » Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:50 pm

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... .html#req4 These are the requisites that a monk needs and how to use them. How someone can justify smoking tobacco on top of this is difficult to imagine.

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Vinaya doesn't prohibit smoking -tobacco-, but...

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:53 pm

good to know, following DKR argument an ordained monk could be involved even in cocaine and be in plenty practice of the Vinaya.

Would you say it is more important the principle behind the rule than the rule itself?
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Re: Vinaya doesn't prohibit smoking -tobacco-, but...

Post by Wayfarer » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:17 pm

What is ‘second noble truth’, causes of suffering? [Hint: single word, begins with ‘t’.]
Only practice with no gaining idea ~ Suzuki Roshi

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cyril
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Re: Vinaya doesn't prohibit smoking -tobacco-, but...

Post by cyril » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:29 am

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:27 am
I have seen this video, so i would like to ask to those of you who are more learned in the Vinaya scriptures if it is true that tobacco isn't prohibited.

And also if substances alike are so.

++ Thank you
Bhikku Shravasti Dhammika talks about this issue in his book “The Broken Buddha”. According to the author, the Dhammayuts consider smoking to be contrary to Vinaya but the Mahanikayas, which are the largest order in Thailand, are ok with that; Sri Lankan monks are not allowed to smoke in public but they can do it privately, and so on... He also mentions a study released in 2002 revealing that the leading cause of death among Thai monks was smoking-related conditions. Now, if that was not tragical, it would have been funny because I heard that the tobacco was traditionally perceived as some sort of medicinal plant in the Thai society, hence the social acceptance towards monks using the plant.

On a side note here, since Theravada monks are not allowed to handle money, those cigarettes they smoke must have been offered by well-meaning lay supporters. I wonder therefore, is there any merit in offering in good faith such thing to a bhikku that it eventually kill him?
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Re: Vinaya doesn't prohibit smoking -tobacco-, but...

Post by haha » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:08 am

This may be useful here. Anyway, one can correlate it with dhumrapana.
pācittiya 51

"surāmerayapane pācittiyaṃ."

Not to consume alcohol or other intoxicating substances. If a bhikkhu consumes any substance (drugs, medicaments, toxic products, etc.) likely to modify the ordinary structure of the mind (inebriation, modification of the sense of balance or instability, artificial ecstasy, etc.) or to intoxicate the body, he commits a pācittiya.

Remarks: This rule corresponds to the fifth of the ten precepts.

Source: pācittiyas
pācittiya: M Fault due to a bhikkhu's negligence that can be purified by means of the desanā. There are 92 pācittiyas.

In this world hatred never ceases with hatred
With non hatred it ceases, this is the ancient lore.

Upakilesasuttaṃ

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