It’s incumbent on all of us to think better

Discuss the application of the Dharma to situations of social, political, environmental and economic suffering and injustice.
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passel
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It’s incumbent on all of us to think better

Post by passel » Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:17 am

Really. This stuff is important. Let’s throw our wooly-headedness down, all at once if we can but in stages is fine too. That’s all.
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious

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TharpaChodron
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Re: It’s incumbent on all of us to think better

Post by TharpaChodron » Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:43 pm

passel wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:17 am
Really. This stuff is important. Let’s throw our wooly-headedness down, all at once if we can but in stages is fine too. That’s all.
And what, pray tell, do you mean?

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passel
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Re: It’s incumbent on all of us to think better

Post by passel » Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:46 am

TharpaChodron wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:43 pm
passel wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:17 am
Really. This stuff is important. Let’s throw our wooly-headedness down, all at once if we can but in stages is fine too. That’s all.
And what, pray tell, do you mean?
Not trying to be tricky- don’t know how to say it clearer. Just havin a feeling

"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious

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TharpaChodron
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Re: It’s incumbent on all of us to think better

Post by TharpaChodron » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:03 am

passel wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:46 am
TharpaChodron wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:43 pm
passel wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:17 am
Really. This stuff is important. Let’s throw our wooly-headedness down, all at once if we can but in stages is fine too. That’s all.
And what, pray tell, do you mean?
Not trying to be tricky- don’t know how to say it clearer. Just havin a feeling

I've got a feeling, too.


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The Cicada
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Re: It’s incumbent on all of us to think better

Post by The Cicada » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:01 pm

TharpaChodron wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:03 am

I've got a feeling, too.
I think we're vibing.



Are we vibing? There is no response from you as I type this, so I'm assuming that's a yes. Default answer is always yes.

Bokki had a point about rock in the music thread. Timeless.

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passel
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Re: It’s incumbent on all of us to think better

Post by passel » Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:14 am

Pretty sure idk what yr talking about, but that’s fine. I just think it would be cool if you never saw the same post twice, you know?

This is more what’s on my mind

http://www.kobun-sama.org/wp-content/ko ... roshi9.jpg

Image

I’m not sure I have the tech savvy to make that show as an image but there’s always url.

But hey I mean viva la rock

"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious

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Re: It’s incumbent on all of us to think better

Post by amanitamusc » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:11 am


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Anders
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Re: It’s incumbent on all of us to think better

Post by Anders » Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:35 pm

I admit, I avoided this topic to begin with as I feared it might awaken my instinct that maybe I can do better than I am. Oh well, I acknowledge it is so and am willing to dig down another spit to try and do better for myself and others.

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I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

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kirtu
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Re: It’s incumbent on all of us to think better

Post by kirtu » Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:58 pm

passel wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:17 am
Really. This stuff is import. Let’s throw our wooly-headedness down, all at once if we can but in stages is fine too. That’s all.
So do you mean emphasize logical reasoning?

The majority of people here are from native English speaking countries and they have largely abandoned logical reasoning. And frankly I'm not so happy with the state of vigorous logically based reasoning in German, French or most Germanic languages counties since the Second Great Depression (the Great Recession). Economists have been proven more correct at least in the observation that economics is an overriding human concern (which shouldn't be the case since it is a social construct but it does reflect the complex nexus of relative resource deprivation, relative resource access, status, and fear at a minimum).

OTOH you may have applications of Buddhist thought and possibly Buddhist logic in mind. For example, given a choice between anger and non engaging in anger, one should not chose to indulge in anger because anger creates suffering in oneself and others and it destroys an immense amount of merit.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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Rick
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Re: It’s incumbent on all of us to think better

Post by Rick » Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:16 pm

I think thinking should come with a User's Manual and a:

Warning! If improperly used, this product may damage your health and the health of everything around you.

Un-right thinking might be the most dangerous weapon das Universum will ever know.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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kirtu
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Re: It’s incumbent on all of us to think better

Post by kirtu » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:02 pm

kirtu wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:58 pm
For example, given a choice between anger and non engaging in anger, one should not chose to indulge in anger because anger creates suffering in oneself and others and it destroys an immense amount of merit.
I meant: For example, given a choice between anger and non engaging in anger, one should chose to not indulge in anger because anger creates suffering in oneself and others and it destroys an immense amount of merit.

The placement of the negation here is critical.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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Grigoris
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Re: It’s incumbent on all of us to think better

Post by Grigoris » Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:18 pm

I think passel should take the time to explain exactly what is being discussed here, otherwise this discussion is useless.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
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"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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Berry
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Re: It’s incumbent on all of us to think better

Post by Berry » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:41 pm

passel wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:17 am
Really. This stuff is important. Let’s throw our wooly-headedness down, all at once if we can but in stages is fine too. That’s all.


Image
Leave the polluted water of conceptual thoughts in its natural clarity. Without affirming or denying appearances, leave them as they are. When there is neither acceptance nor rejection, mind is liberated into mahāmudra.

~ Tilopa

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passel
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Re: It’s incumbent on all of us to think better

Post by passel » Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:18 am

Berry wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:41 pm
passel wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:17 am
Really. This stuff is important. Let’s throw our wooly-headedness down, all at once if we can but in stages is fine too. That’s all.


Image
Cool hat, Berry
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious

joy&peace
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Re: It’s incumbent on all of us to think better

Post by joy&peace » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:07 pm

I'm pretty sure Passel means the opposite of clarity.

So, more time in meditation - less distractions?
Om Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate bodhi svaha

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passel
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Re: It’s incumbent on all of us to think better

Post by passel » Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:00 pm

This is pretty well-said:

"FUNDAMENTALISM IS NOT PEOPLE, IT’S AN ATTITUDE
by Erik Pema Kunsang

"Often fundamentalists are regarded as other people, not me. Fundamentalism is not people, it’s an attitude. There is no copyright on the tendency to be close-minded, shutting off reason and empathy, and it can unfold within the mind, in anyone. The causes are many, a hodgepodge of circumstances including educational culture at home, in school and in the media, combined with the social and economical climate, national or ethnic traumas, and so much more.The resulting arrogance, and the aggressive and abusive behavior that the fundamentalist attitude breeds, can be changed. A practical way is to begin with noticing the pain it causes and the limited kindness, intelligence and creativity it allows. Then on to loosening it up from inside, and there are many ways to do this.

"The time we live in, it is often proudly proclaimed, is one of sound reason and good-hearted human values. We call it being civilized. These values are so important for peaceful coexistence on this planet. The danger has been and still is when the best in us gets hijacked by fear and ignorance. It is fear that appears in the form of the fundamentalist attitude, but it is based on ignorance. The fear that letting human beings be humane results in chaos. It is also the fear of ending up back in the jungle, among savage animals. Control over others become justified, by a self-selected elite, be it financial, social or religious. Control needs rules that must be enforced to be effective through a strict system of punishment, both psychological and corporeal. Or it can be through bringing the majority of a population to within sight of disaster, that the threat of ending up in the street is never far away. Now that is savage.

"Open-mindedness that is intelligent and combined with genuine human kindness is the direct antidote for fundamentalism. They can’t coexist in the same mind, at the same time. We see proof of this in our common planetary history, how the shared conscience in the form of writers, artists, thinkers and spiritual people have to flee a repressive regime or face its persecution. We also see it reflected into the political process when tolerance and rationality are labelled treacherous threats to national interests.

"We need to direct the light that shines from our basic goodness so it illuminates the blind spot in the fundamentalist attitude, and that means each time it unfolds, each time our mind capitulates our ability to see and think clearly to a political or religious bully who tries to tell us what to think and what to do. And each time our heart becomes numbed to the pains of all peoples on our planet, and frightened into being nationally selfish.

"Wouldn’t it be better to live as a content global community, working together to solve common problems and be free in the pursuit of happiness, not at the cost of others, but for the welfare, physical and spiritual, of everyone."
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious

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