Dealing With Demons

Discuss the application of the Dharma to situations of social, political, environmental and economic suffering and injustice.
Simon E.
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Re: Dealing With Demons

Post by Simon E. » Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:42 pm

joy&peace wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:43 pm
This is precisely the definition given by Shantideva.

When you become enlightened, you are enlightened to your Buddha Nature. Mara can no longer touch you.
'When'.
Gone fishin' :smile:

Simon E.
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Re: Dealing With Demons

Post by Simon E. » Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:46 pm

joy&peace wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:46 pm
Demonizing humans and individuals is NEVER good. I could write countlessly, endless pages, but there is only no need for that.

Criticising and trying to stand in each others' way is infinitely less helpful than stating positively, what you think is good.
The only beings that are being demonised in this thread as far as I can see are....demons.

The truck that hits you if you stand in the middle of road has no ultimate separate existence.
That won't stop it killing you.
Gone fishin' :smile:

joy&peace
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Re: Dealing With Demons

Post by joy&peace » Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:03 pm

Yes -
and one should attain wisdom by taking steps carefully.

Again, what I described is the best method. Meditation practice, these things.
Om Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate bodhi svaha

joy&peace
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Re: Dealing With Demons

Post by joy&peace » Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:12 pm

...Which are non-existent.

'The best way to clear muddy water is by leaving it alone,' It has been said, and this is true.. It is infinitely better to take positive, creative action.

'The wise, Buddha said, 'Do not argue, but discipline themselves instead.'

When the mind is transformed, literally -- Yes, literally -- one is healed from afflictions.

When one is healed, one is able to do the same.

The sum of it is to practice; continue practice. Transform the mind, until one has a Nirvanic mindset;

Practice with all of one's heart -- and, inward meditation partly; outward acts of kindness and merit.

As Mila said, do not meditate without good karma.

With Peace, and Love,

Best wishes from all my heart.
Om Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate bodhi svaha

amanitamusc
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Re: Dealing With Demons

Post by amanitamusc » Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:16 pm

joy&peace wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:12 pm
...Which are non-existent.

'The best way to clear muddy water is by leaving it alone,' It has been said, and this is true.. It is infinitely better to take positive, creative action.

'The wise, Buddha said, 'Do not argue, but discipline themselves instead.'

When the mind is transformed, literally -- Yes, literally -- one is healed from afflictions.

When one is healed, one is able to do the same.

The sum of it is to practice; continue practice. Transform the mind, until one has a Nirvanic mindset;

Practice with all of one's heart -- and, inward meditation partly; outward acts of kindness and merit.

As Mila said, do not meditate without good karma.

With Peace, and Love,

Best wishes from all my heart.
Sorry i can't read your post it does not exist and neither do you or I. :zzz:

joy&peace
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Re: Dealing With Demons

Post by joy&peace » Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:18 pm

Best wishes and have a beautiful day...

Pleas study reflect and meditate.

As you choose and wish.

With love and peace.

It is much better - always - to speak truthfully, clearly and honestly. . . than to speak any other way.
Om Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate bodhi svaha

amanitamusc
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Re: Dealing With Demons

Post by amanitamusc » Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:30 pm

joy&peace wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:18 pm
Best wishes and have a beautiful day...

Pleas study reflect and meditate.

As you choose and wish.

With love and peace.

It is much better - always - to speak truthfully, clearly and honestly. . . than to speak any other way.
Be well. :smile:

joy&peace
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Re: Dealing With Demons

Post by joy&peace » Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:37 pm

It really is always important to speak truthfully.
Om Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate bodhi svaha

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Monlam Tharchin
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Re: Dealing With Demons

Post by Monlam Tharchin » Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:06 pm

Some further reading from a Pure Land perspective:

* Purelanders.com: If you encounter a ghost
* Purelanders.com: Ghostly disturbances
* Buddhism of Wisdom and Faith: Discussion on Demonic Realms (section 51, farther down the page). This is specifically about demons and not hungry ghosts.

I also found this thorough document from FPMT covering food offering practices, including for hungry ghosts and beings in the hell realms.

Thubten Chodron writes about handling fear here. She also has many other articles and talks on the subject, on the left of the page.

I think this would be a great opportunity to discuss fear.
Why do we feel fear when encountering demons or hungry ghosts, real or imagined?
And how can we counterbalance fear in general, so it doesn't color our response?

I still recommend a mantra or buddha name. Fear creates a duality, and thinking of a buddha disrupts that process. And saying a buddha's name or mantra can connect a ghost/demon in a far worse situation than we are to the Dharma.
What could be better, given the circumstances?
Last edited by Monlam Tharchin on Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Amitābha Buddha!
OM MA NI PE ME HUNG
TAYATA OM BEKANDZE BEKANDZE MAHA BEKANDZE RADZA SAMUDGATE SOHA

Pure Land Buddhism resources
* Teachings of Hōnen
* Jōdo-shū North America Buddhist Missions
* Free Pure Land books
* Taming the Monkey Mind
* Buddhism of Wisdom and Faith
* Pure Land Teachings of Master Chu-Hung

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Aryjna
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Re: Dealing With Demons

Post by Aryjna » Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:10 pm

Another fpmt document on the subject: https://fpmt.org/wp-content/uploads/tea ... itharm.pdf

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TharpaChodron
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Re: Dealing With Demons

Post by TharpaChodron » Sat Sep 22, 2018 4:19 am

Simon E. wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:35 am
To say that demonic entities only exist in the mind is meaningless.
It is true to the extent that all beings, events and phenomena have no independent existence.
But as HHDL quoted when asked if the Dharmapalas exist 'they are as real as you are'.

No more, but no less real.

How is it meaningless? Every teaching I know says we don't purify and pacify demons that exist inherently outside our mind/ experience. When HHDL says demons are as real as your own mind, it's actually a tricky answer. Because your mind is also not any more real in a solid sense. Which is not to say it has no importance. But the whole understanding of demons as being NOT inherently existing outside and separate from oneself is one of the most important teachings of Buddhism and is the crux of the matter.
Last edited by TharpaChodron on Sat Sep 22, 2018 4:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

Simon E.
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Re: Dealing With Demons

Post by Simon E. » Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:59 am

The crux of the teaching is also that you do not have existence outside of THEIR minds either.

But in conventional terms you have a reality. You are reading these words. If you stand in front of a truck the collection of skandhas that represent you will be somewhat modified and rapidly.

So what you are saying is that for a number of reasons you are choosing to believe that demonic beings are even less real than you. That even in terms of conventional reality they have no existence. That they exist as a subset of your mind..in a way that your friends and trees and clouds do not.

Which is a perfectly reasonable conclusion.
But not one supported by the experience of many people, both Buddhist and non Buddhist, including me.
They are as real as you are, no more than that...but they are not less real than you are.
The same is, of course, true of Dharmapalas too.
Too see disembodied beings as merely an aspect of our 'minds' (itself a problematic concept) is a modern innovation, and one not in accord with some traditional teachings.
Gone fishin' :smile:

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Monlam Tharchin
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Re: Dealing With Demons

Post by Monlam Tharchin » Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:10 pm

:good:

Better safe than sorry when it comes to this sort of thing.
It's very hard, when you're not expecting it, to A) be prepared for extreme fear, and B) still be able to do something potentially beneficial for another being.
Mantras have helped in every encounter I've had, whether in a dream or awake, whether I have had a correct view in that moment or not.
That's what I want people to remember at least.
Amitābha Buddha!
OM MA NI PE ME HUNG
TAYATA OM BEKANDZE BEKANDZE MAHA BEKANDZE RADZA SAMUDGATE SOHA

Pure Land Buddhism resources
* Teachings of Hōnen
* Jōdo-shū North America Buddhist Missions
* Free Pure Land books
* Taming the Monkey Mind
* Buddhism of Wisdom and Faith
* Pure Land Teachings of Master Chu-Hung

joy&peace
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Re: Dealing With Demons

Post by joy&peace » Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:36 pm

fOr a while last year i was chanting 6-8 hours a day; walking 12+ miles, and sleeping very little. not, none. but very little. once, I chanted 40 hours straight... It's nice to have this energy.

Shantideva writes about this.

1
Those who wish to guard their practice
Should very attentively guard their minds
For those who do not guard their minds
Will be unable to guard their practice.
2
In this world subdued and crazed elephants
Are incapable of causing such harms
As the miseries of the deepest hell
Which can be caused by the unleashed
elephant of my mind.
3
But if the elephant of my mind is firmly
bound
On all sides by the rope of mindfulness,
All fears will cease to exist
And all virtues will come into my hand.
4
Tigers, lions, elephants, bears,
Snakes and all forms of enemies,
The guardians of the hell worlds,
Evil spirits and cannibals,
5
Will all be bound
By binding my mind alone,
And all will be subdued
By subduing my mind alone.
6
The Perfect Teacher himself has shown
That in this way all fears
As well as all boundless miseries
Originate from the mind.

Argument is incredibly injurious in general. So this is not my intent.

I would preface with -- every good wish,..

Please do not say to anyone, "your existence is dependent on...." etc..

This is not beneficial or true in any sense.

Peace and Metta.


it is akin to people saying how strong or great the Devil is.... instead of this; why not focus on Buddhas and Bodhisattvas.

for instance,

31
"I am ever dwelling in the presence
Of all the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas
Who are always endowed
With unobstructed vision."
32
By thinking in this way
I shall mindfully develop a sense of shame,
respect and fear.
Also through doing this,
Recollection of the Buddha will repeatedly
occur.
33
When mindfulness is set with the purpose
Of guarding the doorway of the mind,
Then alertness will come about
And even that which has gone will return.


do not tell people how evil the world is. . . . . Anyway -- this is my last post in this thread.

Buddha in countless places says; this place here is the Pure Land.
Om Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate bodhi svaha

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The Cicada
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Re: Dealing With Demons

Post by The Cicada » Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:31 am

Still looking over the materials linked here. Thank you all, especially Monlam. This is very interesting.

(PS: Joy and Tharpa, your secrets are safe with us. Please only devour non-Buddhists.)

:namaste:

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