Why not more Farms and Soup kitchens for Buddhist dharma centers, instead of money?

Discuss the application of the Dharma to situations of social, political, environmental and economic suffering and injustice.
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well wisher
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Why not more Farms and Soup kitchens for Buddhist dharma centers, instead of money?

Post by well wisher » Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:23 pm

Questions:
Why not more Farms and Soup kitchens for Buddhist dharma centers and monastics?
Why are so many dharma centers seemingly obsessed with money instead, like asking money for courses and lessons?
Would farming be against the "assumed" original Buddhist traditional teachings and Upaya rules? "(eg Southern/Theravadan traditions)?
Could the reasons be afraid of harming insects, or spoiling other people to encourage more beggars, or breaking the "monetary" fabric of society?
Is alms-bowl begging for the only sanctioned method of gathering food for the monks, approved by Shakyamuni Buddha?
Most importantly: is it easy to get an apprenticeship from Buddhist monks who supports organic farming? Any in Canada? :jumping:

Why I think so:
In North America, I have personally experienced several IT office jobs layoffs before, during several "economy downturns" and recessions and corporate restructuring. So I have totally lost faith in money and traditional big corporations. Very unstable with little job security, and full of strife & stress & interpersonal conflicts, with little direct benefit to the masses of people.
If this thinking is extrapolated, as more people loses faith in the the current economic structure, then one way to ensure continued survival of the human race is through food security.
So I think one of the most perfect lifestyle would akin a organic-farmer Buddhist-monk totally self dependent with no fear about sustenance, and able to help alleviate the famine suffering of the world, while minimizing harm done any to the world.
(For starter, I am only talking about mostly-vegetarian farms, with no animal livestock bred for meat, to avoid conflict with the first precept about taking lives).
One of my imagined worst case scenarios is the economy in shambles for the poor majority, with elimination of the middle class and massive income inequality (eg. the top rich 1% vs the bottom 99%) caused by massive corporate and government greed: eg. imposing more unreasonable fees and taxes for many aspect of the masses daily lives, especially in cities.
Then one of the strongest way for the poor masses to fight back, is to totally renounce money, then go back to the old historical roots of farming and soup kitchens.

I think the only real materialistic need that the Buddhist monks would need from the laypeople communities are just: food/alms and clean water, as sustenance. They already have temples/houses for adequate shelter, and simple robes for their clothes.
Many well-respected monks easily able to live to age 90's and beyond with simple right livelihood. So they must already know the secrets to the long-life, living well, and self-medicare.

Some other websites with seemingly real life examples that supports Buddhist monastics farming:
http://www.agrowingculture.org/beyond-p ... t-farming/
- Beyond Production: a story of Buddhist farming
https://www.workaway.info/000000000143-en.html
- Volunteering in a Buddhist Monastery- Fujian, South China
viewtopic.php?f=110&t=14671&start=280
- Re: Backyard Gardening at dharmawheel.net
Monks' monastery growing, while same is planned in Brudenell for nuns
https://www.theguardian.pe.ca/news/loca ... uns-58558/
All of the farming done in the monastery and in the surrounding area is organic.
https://news.mongabay.com/2018/08/ecolo ... -thailand/
Phrakhu Sangkom Thanapanyo Khunsuri, a prominent ecology monk based in Chiang Mai, developed an alternative farming school through his temple in Chonburi called the Maab-Euang Meditation Center for Sufficiency Economy.
Is Venerable Phrakhu Sangkom Thanapanyo Khunsuri a Theravada-style monk who supports farming?
It yes, then this would totally contradict my previously assumed (and possibly wrong) view that orthodox Thervada tradition would only supports alms bowl begging!
Enlighten me please, oh wise monks!

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Re: Why not more Farms and Soup kitchens for Buddhist dharma centers, instead of money?

Post by Grigoris » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:01 pm

well wisher wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:23 pm
Questions:
Why not more Farms and Soup kitchens for Buddhist dharma centers and monastics?
Are monks meant to be practicing ascetics or farmers and cooks?
Would farming be against the "assumed" original Buddhist traditional teachings and Upaya rules? "(eg Southern/Theravadan traditions)?
Yes. Monks are not even meant to scratch in the soil, let alone till it.
Most importantly: is it easy to get an apprenticeship from Buddhist monks who supports organic farming? Any in Canada? :jumping:
If you want an apprenticeship in organic farming go find an organic farmer, not a monk. If you want an "apprenticeship" in monastic practice...
Why I think so:
In North America, I have personally experienced several IT office jobs layoffs before, during several "economy downturns" and recessions and corporate restructuring. So I have totally lost faith in money and traditional big corporations. Very unstable with little job security, and full of strife & stress & interpersonal conflicts, with little direct benefit to the masses of people.
If this thinking is extrapolated, as more people loses faith in the the current economic structure, then one way to ensure continued survival of the human race is through food security.
I think you are confused about why people become Buddhist ascetics.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Why not more Farms and Soup kitchens for Buddhist dharma centers, instead of money?

Post by well wisher » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:19 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:01 pm
Are monks meant to be practicing ascetics or farmers and cooks?

If you want an apprenticeship in organic farming go find an organic farmer, not a monk. If you want an "apprenticeship" in monastic practice...

I think you are confused about why people become Buddhist ascetics.
Thanks for the response Grigoris.
I may be confusing the occupations a bit, but I do not believe the occupations are mutually exclusive?
Because I know in historical traditions supporting dual roles, such as zen Shaolin monks working the fields.
Also the above real life examples I posted above about monks working on farms (at least as guides), were not addressed nor refuted.

From my limited understanding, being a monastic is to dedicate time towards the practices. But working the fields to prevent stavation of the noble Sangha - that can be part of the practice too, right?
I was just thinking about they best ways to survive a supposed "economic apocalypse", like if the historical ecomomic depression of the 1930's were to happen again.

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Re: Why not more Farms and Soup kitchens for Buddhist dharma centers, instead of money?

Post by Grigoris » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:23 pm

well wisher wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:19 pm
Because I know in historical traditions supporting dual roles, such as zen Shaolin monks working the fields.
Source?
From my limited understanding, being a monastic is to dedicate time towards the practices. But working the fields to prevent stavation of the noble Sangha - that can be part of the practice too, right?
Taking a crap can be a part of practice too, should monks have to be toilet janitors too?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Why not more Farms and Soup kitchens for Buddhist dharma centers, instead of money?

Post by well wisher » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:29 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:23 pm
Source?
https://www.buddhistdoor.net/news/shaol ... in-temple-

"Shaolin Monks and Foreign Disciples Harvest Wheat as Part of Chan Training at Shaolin Temple"
Grigoris wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:23 pm
Taking a crap can be a part of practice too, should monks have to be toilet janitors too?
No, sir! Taking a crap is just human nature, a normal part of daily living as in part of right livelihood.
Just like eating and acquiring for food and water, whether by alms bowl begging, donations, or foraging/farming for it yourself.
Last edited by well wisher on Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why not more Farms and Soup kitchens for Buddhist dharma centers, instead of money?

Post by Grigoris » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:37 pm

well wisher wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:29 pm
https://www.buddhistdoor.net/news/shaol ... lin-temple

"Shaolin Monks and Foreign Disciples Harvest Wheat as Part of Chan Training at Shaolin Temple"
The link does not work. But if you are talking about modern Shaolin, well... It does not have much to do with Buddhism... or Batuo (Buddhabadra) for that matter.
Grigoris wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:23 pm
Taking a crap can be a part of practice too, should monks have to be toilet janitors too?
No, sir! Taking a crap is just human nature, a normal part of daily living as in part of right livelihood.
Just like eating and acquiring for food and water, whether by alms bowl begging, donations, or foraging/farming for it yourself.
Sorry, but that is just gibberish. What are you trying to say?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Why not more Farms and Soup kitchens for Buddhist dharma centers, instead of money?

Post by well wisher » Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:04 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:37 pm
well wisher wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:29 pm
https://www.buddhistdoor.net/news/shaol ... in-temple-

"Shaolin Monks and Foreign Disciples Harvest Wheat as Part of Chan Training at Shaolin Temple"
The link does not work. But if you are talking about modern Shaolin, well... It does not have much to do with Buddhism... or Batuo (Buddhabadra) for that matter.
Grigoris wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:23 pm
Taking a crap can be a part of practice too, should monks have to be toilet janitors too?
No, sir! Taking a crap is just human nature, a normal part of daily living as in part of right livelihood.
Just like eating and acquiring for food and water, whether by alms bowl begging, donations, or foraging/farming for it yourself.
Sorry, but that is just gibberish. What are you trying to say?
Sorry I fixed the link now, missed a dash. Anyways, can you please explain why do you think it is gibberish?

My questions essentially boils down to: do you think Shakyamuni Buddha would have approved his monks to work the farm fields? (Even if it does not directly break the precepts).
I guess your answer would be NO, sir Gigoris?

Since you have condemned modern Shaolin monks as fake, Would you condemn all monks who would till the fields? Including the above cases of monks in Thailand and Canada I mentioned? And all over the world?
So does that mean everything that has survived historically until now, would be fake and wrong view to you?
If so, then can you please fully explain what exactly is the right view and right path and methods?

But then you will have to think about the alternative model:
For monks being like helpless toddlers waiting for laypeople to spoon-feed.
Does it not mean it will be easier & faster for the monastic ways to perish,
especially during war times or economic crisis times, due to being less self-sufficient?
Especially in many countries near the polar regions, where it would not be feasible to go round on alms for food begging during very cold winter times.

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Re: Why not more Farms and Soup kitchens for Buddhist dharma centers, instead of money?

Post by Könchok Thrinley » Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:06 pm

well wisher wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:04 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:37 pm
well wisher wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:29 pm
https://www.buddhistdoor.net/news/shaol ... in-temple-

"Shaolin Monks and Foreign Disciples Harvest Wheat as Part of Chan Training at Shaolin Temple"
The link does not work. But if you are talking about modern Shaolin, well... It does not have much to do with Buddhism... or Batuo (Buddhabadra) for that matter.
No, sir! Taking a crap is just human nature, a normal part of daily living as in part of right livelihood.
Just like eating and acquiring for food and water, whether by alms bowl begging, donations, or foraging/farming for it yourself.
Sorry, but that is just gibberish. What are you trying to say?
Sorry I fixed the link now, missed a dash. Anyways, can you please explain why do you think it is gibberish?

My questions essentially boils down to: do you think Shakyamuni Buddha would have approved his monks to work the farm fields? (Even if it does not directly break the precepts).
I guess your answer would be NO, sir Gigoris?

Since you have condemned modern Shaolin monks as fake, Would you condemn all monks who would till the fields? Including the above cases of monks in Thailand and Canada I mentioned? And all over the world?
So does that mean everything that has survived historically until now, would be fake and wrong view to you?
If so, then can you please fully explain what exactly is the right view and right path and methods?

But then you will have to think about the alternative model:
For monks being like helpless toddlers waiting for laypeople to spoon-feed.
Does it not mean it will be easier & faster for the monastic ways to perish,
especially during war times or economic crisis times, due to being less self-sufficient?
Especially in many countries near the polar regions, where it would not be feasible to go round on alms for food begging during very cold winter times.
It happens in zen communities that monks work, but that is because they take different set of vows then the rest of the buddhist world really.

To the OP
Maybe it would be great if communities were created and were self sufficient, but most dharma centers are in cities to reach the locals and that's good. Obsession with money comes from the simple fact that here in the west we need money to live even if we started communes. We must remember we are not Hare Krishnas.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

Formerly known as Miroku.

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Re: Why not more Farms and Soup kitchens for Buddhist dharma centers, instead of money?

Post by TharpaChodron » Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:14 pm

This doesn't answer your questions, but have you heard about this place? They seem to believe in Buddhism and gardening being compatible.

http://www.sfzc.org/green-gulch/

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Re: Why not more Farms and Soup kitchens for Buddhist dharma centers, instead of money?

Post by well wisher » Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:55 pm

Miroku wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:06 pm
It happens in zen communities that monks work, but that is because they take different set of vows then the rest of the buddhist world really.

To the OP
Maybe it would be great if communities were created and were self sufficient, but most dharma centers are in cities to reach the locals and that's good. Obsession with money comes from the simple fact that here in the west we need money to live even if we started communes. We must remember we are not Hare Krishnas.
You have raised some valid points, Miroku.
It is just I am sick and tired of all the obsession with money (with my own father being the same case).
So I am at the point in life where I want to try something really different, maybe build up some more self-sufficiency skills so I can be less afraid and less greedy.

Sample case with the problem of money:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevehanke ... 6c8215f31c
Venezuela's Episode of Hyperinflation Reaches New "Highs" - Prices Double Every 17.5 Days
I only hope this hyperinflation never occurs in western countries, nor any other countries!
May the ordinary innocent folks of Venezuela be spared from further economic crisis,
and may their basic needs be easily fulfilled. :anjali:

Anyways I am not really familiar with the term Hare Krishnas.
I found this link below, but it does not really say the Krishnas are self-sufficient agriculture communities
https://www.npr.org/templates/story/sto ... d=90643796
TharpaChodron wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:14 pm
http://www.sfzc.org/green-gulch/
Thanks for this link TharpaChodron , my current view seems to be very similar to the folks at green-gulch.
Vegetable & Fruits gardening would be akin to smaller scale farming.
Perhaps I should go there if get the chance to visit San Francisco again.

It appears I have really deep Karma connections with the Chan/Zen paths, with my parents making me take the 5 precept at a Chan temple when I was toddler before I aged 5; Even if I do not know much about why.

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Re: Why not more Farms and Soup kitchens for Buddhist dharma centers, instead of money?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:13 pm

Somewhat tangential to the conversation, but no one is starving due to a lack of overall food production. We throw away 33% of all food produced or something like that. So people who are starving are typically blocked from food by something other than actual scarcity, certainly in the developed world at least.

I'm all for more places (lay and ordained - though strict vinaya followers cannot farm anyway?) doing stuff like this, but I don't know why it'd be any better than offering classes. In fact, at least with offering classes Dharma is being propagated (hopefully)...farming on a large scale is just hard work, there is nothing particularly romantic or special about it, IMO. I can see it being a good practice for some. I volunteer at a farm and see value in it, but let's not romanticize it.

Anyway in the modern world for the Dharma to be propagated it has to have money, this is just reality. How it's done is a huge deal, transparency, use of resources etc..but the expectation that Dharma centers or monasteries should simply not ask for anything is both very romantic, as well as being contrary to the relationship that the ordained sangha is supposed to have with the laity traditionally.

So there are lots of ways it could go bad, but the fact is that it is "working as designed" if you are giving money to Dharma centers or Temples and they are using it to propagate the Dharma.
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Re: Why not more Farms and Soup kitchens for Buddhist dharma centers, instead of money?

Post by well wisher » Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:02 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:13 pm
Somewhat tangential to the conversation, but no one is starving due to a lack of overall food production. We throw away 33% of all food produced or something like that. So people who are starving are typically blocked from food by something other than actual scarcity, certainly in the developed world at least.

I'm all for more places (lay and ordained - though strict vinaya followers cannot farm anyway?) doing stuff like this, but I don't know why it'd be any better than offering classes. In fact, at least with offering classes Dharma is being propagated (hopefully)...farming on a large scale is just hard work, there is nothing particularly romantic or special about it, IMO. I can see it being a good practice for some. I volunteer at a farm and see value in it, but let's not romanticize it.

Anyway in the modern world for the Dharma to be propagated it has to have money, this is just reality. How it's done is a huge deal, transparency, use of resources etc..but the expectation that Dharma centers or monasteries should simply not ask for anything is both very romantic, as well as being contrary to the relationship that the ordained sangha is supposed to have with the laity traditionally.

So there are lots of ways it could go bad, but the fact is that it is "working as designed" if you are giving money to Dharma centers or Temples and they are using it to propagate the Dharma.
Very true points. I am also aware that many dharma centres in developed countries have dedicated lay-people staff to handle monetary affairs, in case the monastics cannot touch money for their own rules / Vinaya.
In my opinion, whoever is doing the blocking on food to starving people are demons. This implies a catastrophic failure in the political arena & social realms.

Anyways, I just got the idea for more soup kitchens, because I saw more beggars out in the street in the city I currently live in.
I am totally fine giving out / sharing food with those beggars, but I would feel guilty & wrong to donate money to them instead,
because they might spend it on bad self-abusive hobbies instead (like alcohol/drugs/ etc.) and continuing bad habits.
The idea is more like a "backup plan", to counter possible economic depression scenarios that I imagined.
Hopefully it's just my imagination, and everything goes smoothly as usual.
I would still love to get some real life agricultural experiences, it might be good workout as well! :D

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Re: Why not more Farms and Soup kitchens for Buddhist dharma centers, instead of money?

Post by Grigoris » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:56 pm

Soup kitchens are a great activity. Extremely commendable.

Christians (for example) use them to proselytise.

It is not a Buddhist ascetics job to proselytise.

It is also not a Buddhist ascetics job to feed people.

Actually, Buddhist ascetics traditionally begged for alms. That means that they did not have stocks of food for themselves, let alone others.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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Re: Why not more Farms and Soup kitchens for Buddhist dharma centers, instead of money?

Post by well wisher » Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:28 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:56 pm
Soup kitchens are a great activity. Extremely commendable.

Christians (for example) use them to proselytise.

It is not a Buddhist ascetics job to proselytise.

It is also not a Buddhist ascetics job to feed people.

Actually, Buddhist ascetics traditionally begged for alms. That means that they did not have stocks of food for themselves, let alone others.
Agreed about the non-proselytise and non-conversion, I think this is special trait in Buddhism that makes it so noble compared to the other more "dominant" religions.
My intent on this conversation was never about.converting other people anyways, merely discussing about possible self-sustainability solutions, or just helping to alleviate sufferings in the general public as gesture of goodwill, without expecting anything back.
I suppose it might be a do-able activity for laypersons, and not ascetics. Thanks for this insight.

Regarding the alms begging & stocks for food, I would think it might not be feasible or survivable in countries with very cold and harsh winters, or even in societies that generally looks down on beggars.
Hence some "Mahayana adaptions" have come throughout history, to ensure survival of the dharma.
This is what I was taught anyways :shrug:

I think for some, it might become a question of which is the lesser evil greed in tough circumstances: money versus food. Thus some tradition have chosen to be more flexible on the food aspect; to be become less susceptible to the pitfalls of money, and in keeping strictness with the Vinaya rule of "not-handling money". Pick your own poisons, I guess!

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Re: Why not more Farms and Soup kitchens for Buddhist dharma centers, instead of money?

Post by narhwal90 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:44 pm

I volunteer at an inner-city Catholic food pantry, the "proselytizing" amounts to including a prayer card in the bag of food during Easter/Xmas, there is no lecture or other message and the pantry is open to all who live in the parish regardless of their affiliation. Lots of families only eat reasonably well when they get a bag of groceries from us.

Obviously the church puts the squeeze on the members to help finance the operation; somebody has to buy the food. Many volunteers buy things for the pantry in addition to contributing their time and labor. If a dharma center doesn't operate a charity, and asks for money to stay open and carry their message, so what? I say go volunteer elsewhere, far as I'm concerned the only impediment to helping others is one's own attitude.

I'm not an ascetic, but I wonder about a buddhist ascetic who chooses not to lend a hand in some way to help those less fortunate. Aside from the prep work, on distribution day all we do is pack bags and hand them to people, some of the folks are so frail they need help carrying them. The Catholic seminary students who the Father brings by occasionally help out too, even if its only to add some character to the operation and encourage folks. The last time a bunch of them were with us they helped us clear out a backlog of bagels that were in danger of going stale... very helpful.

The pantry is fully a lay operation in terms of finance and logistics, operating under the auspices of the Father. We generally carry about 1 month worth of canned inventory so we can keep stock levels consistent, and purchase eggs/bread/protein on distribution days so as to avoid spoilage. The ordained participation is to help distribute.

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Re: Why not more Farms and Soup kitchens for Buddhist dharma centers, instead of money?

Post by Grigoris » Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:28 am

narhwal90 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:44 pm
I'm not an ascetic, but I wonder about a buddhist ascetic who chooses not to lend a hand in some way to help those less fortunate.
Chalk up another one that does not understand the role and nature of monasticism.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Why not more Farms and Soup kitchens for Buddhist dharma centers, instead of money?

Post by Könchok Thrinley » Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:08 am

narhwal90 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:44 pm
I'm not an ascetic, but I wonder about a buddhist ascetic who chooses not to lend a hand in some way to help those less fortunate.
As Grigoris said it is not a monks job to feed people. But look at many lamas they have so many projects so often and help many many people with education, ecological issues and even food (see Vajra Avikrita Rinpoche and Marichi foundation). And it is incredible that they do so. Even in history many ascetics, yogis etc. did so many things to help locals. But their main job is to help us out of samsara, to wipe out causes of suffering. Heal the sickness not the symptoms of it. It would be amazing if centers could do some soup kitchens but there are barely enough money to run them. It is not a job for centers or monks to be generous. It is the job especially for us. If we manage to donate enough so the centers dont struggle with rent then there will be something left for good actions. Or even voting the right candidate can help. Or starting some fund that could do it. There are many posibilities. However, it is not monks, nor yogis main job to do.
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Re: Why not more Farms and Soup kitchens for Buddhist dharma centers, instead of money?

Post by shaunc » Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:24 am

I've always considered Dana (generosity) to be one of the basic ethics of Buddhism.
That's why I'd rather donate money to the salvation army than the local Buddhist temple.
But I've got no control over how Buddhist sanghas view generosity but I do have control over my own wallet.

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Re: Why not more Farms and Soup kitchens for Buddhist dharma centers, instead of money?

Post by Mantrik » Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:09 am

Quote from a certain cult:
'Our focus is on becoming enlightened for the benefit of all.'

That is fine for an ascetic, food brought to them in their cave, but I'd like a lot more evidence that others in monastic or lay environments ignore social need.
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Grigoris
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Re: Why not more Farms and Soup kitchens for Buddhist dharma centers, instead of money?

Post by Grigoris » Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:32 am

Mantrik wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:09 am
Quote from a certain cult:
'Our focus is on becoming enlightened for the benefit of all.'

That is fine for an ascetic, food brought to them in their cave, but I'd like a lot more evidence that others in monastic or lay environments ignore social need.
Lay practitioners should not ignore social needs, the question here is to what degree monastic ascetics should involve themselves in filling social needs.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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