Global Warming Solutions (Split from: Reversing Global Warming)

Discuss the application of the Dharma to situations of social, political, environmental and economic suffering and injustice.
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Nemo
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Global Warming Solutions (Split from: Reversing Global Warming)

Post by Nemo » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:29 pm

We need a mobilization similar to WWII. I have heard this many times. But then I thought about the cost of stopping climate change. All we actually need to do is seize the wealth of the 6 richest people in the world if we do it this year. That will cover all the costs of switching over the carbon economy before we hit the wall. By 2025 it will be he top 10 richest and it still might be possible.

6 whiny rich people is a very small price to pay for saving billions of sentient beings. :stirthepot:

Tenma
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Re: Reversing Global Warming

Post by Tenma » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:46 pm

Nemo wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:29 pm
We need a mobilization similar to WWII. I have heard this many times. But then I thought about the cost of stopping climate change. All we actually need to do is seize the wealth of the 6 richest people in the world if we do it this year. That will cover all the costs of switching over the carbon economy before we hit the wall. By 2025 it will be he top 10 richest and it still might be possible.

6 whiny rich people is a very small price to pay for saving billions of sentient beings. :stirthepot:
Easier said than done.
Though perhaps a revolution might be at hand (or an invasion of some tropical islands where some of the illicit "aristocrats" ranging from drug dealers to pedophiles dwell, they have quite the mass of money and power compared to the immediately impoverished natives and their slums that dwell on the same islands).

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Queequeg
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Re: Reversing Global Warming

Post by Queequeg » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:48 pm

Nemo wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:29 pm
We need a mobilization similar to WWII. I have heard this many times. But then I thought about the cost of stopping climate change. All we actually need to do is seize the wealth of the 6 richest people in the world if we do it this year. That will cover all the costs of switching over the carbon economy before we hit the wall. By 2025 it will be he top 10 richest and it still might be possible.

6 whiny rich people is a very small price to pay for saving billions of sentient beings. :stirthepot:
I actually don't think we even need to appropriate resources. All we need to do is resolve to organize our activities toward a "green" society, and do it - set up WPAs, CCCs, etc. If those 1%ers want to preserve the value of their wealth, they will gladly participate in this project. Otherwise, we just change what we value and their assets will be devalued. This is what the wealthy are really scared of - we just decide to change the measures of value.

Its all explained in the Wizard of Oz.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Miroku
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Re: Reversing Global Warming

Post by Miroku » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:51 pm

Nemo wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:29 pm
We need a mobilization similar to WWII. I have heard this many times. But then I thought about the cost of stopping climate change. All we actually need to do is seize the wealth of the 6 richest people in the world if we do it this year. That will cover all the costs of switching over the carbon economy before we hit the wall. By 2025 it will be he top 10 richest and it still might be possible.

6 whiny rich people is a very small price to pay for saving billions of sentient beings. :stirthepot:
Unless you plan to kill them with kindness then you go basically against Pema's message. :tongue: However, yes you are basically right. Something radical has to happen. Let's hope it will come soon and it will be radical act of kindness and compassion.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

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well wisher
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Re: Reversing Global Warming

Post by well wisher » Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:54 am

Queequeg wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:48 pm
Nemo wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:29 pm
We need a mobilization similar to WWII. I have heard this many times. But then I thought about the cost of stopping climate change. All we actually need to do is seize the wealth of the 6 richest people in the world if we do it this year. That will cover all the costs of switching over the carbon economy before we hit the wall. By 2025 it will be he top 10 richest and it still might be possible.

6 whiny rich people is a very small price to pay for saving billions of sentient beings. :stirthepot:
I actually don't think we even need to appropriate resources. All we need to do is resolve to organize our activities toward a "green" society, and do it - set up WPAs, CCCs, etc. If those 1%ers want to preserve the value of their wealth, they will gladly participate in this project. Otherwise, we just change what we value and their assets will be devalued. This is what the wealthy are really scared of - we just decide to change the measures of value.

Its all explained in the Wizard of Oz.
I only hope this will come true to fruition! Punish the pyramid-style swindlers and over-valuation of the assets being hoarded by the ultra-rich billionaires / top 1%. Arguably the stock markets is one of the biggest contributor to income inequality and mass-poverty all over the world ; along with tax dollars being misspent, like too much on military ... etc. This might also help prevent the dreaded hyper-inflations.

The devaluation needs to happen, towards a more balanced wealth & income distribution globally. Or otherwise there will be no justice left in this world- it will either be mass oppression of the bottom 99%, or there will be riots by the masses in the fight for fairness and survival - in a world further constrained by perilious climate change.

Well, unless the radical kindness happen like Miroku suggested - like the ultra-rich top 1% suddenly stop their swindling ways, and started putting majority of their fortunes directly into philanthropy with very transparent honesty,
or like the guaranteed basic income for everyone to offset the AI automation advances taking away jobs.
But honestly I don't see this happening anytime soon (if at all), looking back in recent historical records and news.
Last edited by well wisher on Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Nemo
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Re: Reversing Global Warming

Post by Nemo » Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:29 am

100 companies are responsible for 71% of global emissions. Individual consumer choices are irrelevant. Those companies are owned by the billionaire class who have known about the consequences of climate change with precision for over 40 years. They would rather watch us die than give up their wealth. They think they have enough money to escape the consequences.There are only 2400 billionaires on earth. No one needs or earned a billion dollars. They are sick hoarders who can't help themselves. They can't stop interfering with democracy. They won't allow sensible changes to happen. We need to take at least a portion of their wealth to prevent the end of organized human life. Nothing in their life changes but a smaller notional number in a bank account. A small price to pay for a healthy ecology and saving billions of lives.

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Re: Reversing Global Warming

Post by Simon E. » Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:01 am

China? India?

Or is it as usual the fault of the fat honky with the cigar?
“Why don’t you close down your PC for a while and find out who needs your help?”

HH Tai Situ.

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Reversing Global Warming

Post by Kim O'Hara » Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:09 am

Simon E. wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:01 am
China? India?

Or is it as usual the fault of the fat honky with the cigar?
All of the above and more, including (at the top of the list right now) Brazil.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-23/ ... s/11440998

But if I had to nominate individuals, as Nemo suggests we could and maybe should, I would start with (you guessed it) Trump.
Rupert Murdoch would be second on my list, with the Koch brothers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koch_fami ... activities also in the top ten.

:coffee:
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Nemo
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Re: Reversing Global Warming

Post by Nemo » Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:46 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:01 am
China? India?

Or is it as usual the fault of the fat honky with the cigar?
You think China or India does not have billionaires?

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Re: Global Warming Solutions (Split from: Reversing Global Warming)

Post by Kim O'Hara » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:13 pm

:popcorn:
My only excuse for posting this is that it turned up on social media just after the discussion here moved to billionaires.

billionaire.jpg
billionaire.jpg (38.44 KiB) Viewed 694 times

:focus:
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Nemo
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Re: Global Warming Solutions (Split from: Reversing Global Warming)

Post by Nemo » Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:03 pm

The billionaire class has been delaying action globally for decades now. Having worked for some years ago they don't have countries or even races. They have more in common with each other than average citizens of their country of origin. Some even lived out of private jets like billionaire backpackers with concubines and various luxury homes filled with art that made museums look like roadside tourist traps. Monets in the bathroom, jade of unimaginable beauty once owned by emperors, unbelievable architecture and stunning views. They also refused to pay taxes. Some would joke they paid less taxes than me. One of their lawyers had a big crush on me and taught me about non disclosure tax havens.

So here we are. With current tech we have maybe 5 years to avert catastrophe. The billionaire oligarchs have put us in this position. It's only fair we finally tax their ill gotten gains to prevent the deaths of billions. If we hit a 4C rise that will likely wipe out 5 or 6 billion people. All so 2400 people can have disgusting amounts of personal wealth. Is this the ethical choice?

Image

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Re: Global Warming Solutions (Split from: Reversing Global Warming)

Post by tkp67 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:33 pm

The problem is perception. The corporate veil of liability has allowed profiteering at the expertise of sentient life with reduced liability and obfuscated causation while a generation was sated on the fulfillment of desire.

I had been shaken to the core of my being decades ago at the decline of this planet's health as a consequence to unbridled human development and the psychological weight was powerful enough it took years of esoteric practice to get a measure of relief. Because of this I tend to get frustrated at ignorance regarding causation in this regard.

I always felt that from a global perspective that the way of the world needed to be accepted to move forward. I had visions on how to address it and some have come to fruition. The basic concept was employed by Steve Irwin quite well. Use capitalization as a means of preservation utilizing the corporate vehicle and the capitalistic system.

It takes more than insight that allows one to see the problem but the compassion to understand the need to accept human ignorance as an innocent byproduct of being and work accordingly to be a steward of life without bias against said ignorance.

I struggle with the last part but I don't think it is unique to me.

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Re: Global Warming Solutions (Split from: Reversing Global Warming)

Post by Nemo » Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:41 am

tkp67 wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:33 pm
The problem is perception. The corporate veil of liability has allowed profiteering at the expertise of sentient life with reduced liability and obfuscated causation while a generation was sated on the fulfillment of desire.

I had been shaken to the core of my being decades ago at the decline of this planet's health as a consequence to unbridled human development and the psychological weight was powerful enough it took years of esoteric practice to get a measure of relief. Because of this I tend to get frustrated at ignorance regarding causation in this regard.

I always felt that from a global perspective that the way of the world needed to be accepted to move forward. I had visions on how to address it and some have come to fruition. The basic concept was employed by Steve Irwin quite well. Use capitalization as a means of preservation utilizing the corporate vehicle and the capitalistic system.

It takes more than insight that allows one to see the problem but the compassion to understand the need to accept human ignorance as an innocent byproduct of being and work accordingly to be a steward of life without bias against said ignorance.

I struggle with the last part but I don't think it is unique to me.
Steve Irwin was no billionaire. Your solution works in the realms of penny and regional capitalism. Global corporations and the billionaire class work directly against such activities and being exponentially richer inevitably win. Currently capitalism has taken over the entire world and is on track to decrease the carrying capacity of the planet to roughly 1 billion humans. It is causing one of the most epic mass extinctions in the history of the planet. Blind faith that such a deadly ideology can be reformed is likely misplaced. I see no reason to believe it is functioning in any way other than as intended. Fossil fuels are the perfect allegory for capitalism.

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Global Warming Solutions (Split from: Reversing Global Warming)

Post by Kim O'Hara » Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:58 am

Nemo wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:03 pm
...
Image
Source, for anyone else interested in following it up: https://www.nature.com/news/three-years ... te-1.22201

:coffee:
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Queequeg
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Re: Reversing Global Warming

Post by Queequeg » Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:46 pm

Nemo wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:29 am
100 companies are responsible for 71% of global emissions. Individual consumer choices are irrelevant. Those companies are owned by the billionaire class who have known about the consequences of climate change with precision for over 40 years. They would rather watch us die than give up their wealth. They think they have enough money to escape the consequences.There are only 2400 billionaires on earth. No one needs or earned a billion dollars. They are sick hoarders who can't help themselves. They can't stop interfering with democracy. They won't allow sensible changes to happen. We need to take at least a portion of their wealth to prevent the end of organized human life. Nothing in their life changes but a smaller notional number in a bank account. A small price to pay for a healthy ecology and saving billions of lives.
Are 1st world people who are not wealthy but benefit from the goods and services of those 100 companies going to give up their lifestyle? If the problem was just a few ultra rich people that would be one thing but that's not what we're dealing with.

Free Silver!

That's what the wealthy are scared of. They're afraid that the largesse of cheap money for speculative ventures will be counter balanced with large public works that put money in pockets of working people and thereby devalue their money.

There's no problem other than the engineered scarcity that supports inequality.

Other problems will eventually emerge but hopefully by then we will at least have built out a green civilization. A problem for our grand children. Better to have a monetary problem than a planet burnt to a cinder.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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