Buddhism in non-democratic countries

Discuss the application of the Dharma to situations of social, political, environmental and economic suffering and injustice.
Viach
Posts: 160
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:30 am

Buddhism in non-democratic countries

Post by Viach » Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:20 am

Can members of Buddhist communities and / or Buddhist communities on behalf of all their members support authoritarian, totalitarian, non-democratic regimes while inside countries with such regimes? Indeed, on the one hand, all such regimes are based on lies, violence, corruption and theft, which fundamentally contradicts the principles of Buddhism. But, on the other hand, such regimes may even support or, at least, not repress Buddhists and / or Buddhist communities, using such relationships with Buddhists as imitation of patriotism and religiosity, and thereby distracting public opinion from their dirty deeds. That is, can Buddhists / Buddhist communities turn a blind eye to the dirty deeds of such regimes in exchange for their support, or, at least, their loyalty? Does this contradict the tantric samayas and the bodhisattva vow?

shaunc
Posts: 817
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:10 am

Re: Buddhism in non-democratic countries

Post by shaunc » Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:32 am

Unfortunately we've all got to survive in this imperfect world and that includes Buddhist communities. This is samsara.

muni
Posts: 4872
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Buddhism in non-democratic countries

Post by muni » Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:57 am

Buddha sat and looked inside. Mara's play was around, challenging, flattering, demons of all kind.
Buddha sat and looked inside. He did not react and nothing could stain what he discovered.

ps Was there democracy?
The fortress of the spacious and timeless expanse has no division into
higher or lower or in between.

User avatar
PeterC
Posts: 1618
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:38 pm

Re: Buddhism in non-democratic countries

Post by PeterC » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:29 am

Viach wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:20 am
Can members of Buddhist communities and / or Buddhist communities on behalf of all their members support authoritarian, totalitarian, non-democratic regimes while inside countries with such regimes? Indeed, on the one hand, all such regimes are based on lies, violence, corruption and theft, which fundamentally contradicts the principles of Buddhism. But, on the other hand, such regimes may even support or, at least, not repress Buddhists and / or Buddhist communities, using such relationships with Buddhists as imitation of patriotism and religiosity, and thereby distracting public opinion from their dirty deeds. That is, can Buddhists / Buddhist communities turn a blind eye to the dirty deeds of such regimes in exchange for their support, or, at least, their loyalty? Does this contradict the tantric samayas and the bodhisattva vow?
I don't know, what did the Buddha do when he lived in a non-democratic society?

Viach
Posts: 160
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:30 am

Re: Buddhism in non-democratic countries

Post by Viach » Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:22 am

PeterC wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:29 am
Viach wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:20 am
Can members of Buddhist communities and / or Buddhist communities on behalf of all their members support authoritarian, totalitarian, non-democratic regimes while inside countries with such regimes? Indeed, on the one hand, all such regimes are based on lies, violence, corruption and theft, which fundamentally contradicts the principles of Buddhism. But, on the other hand, such regimes may even support or, at least, not repress Buddhists and / or Buddhist communities, using such relationships with Buddhists as imitation of patriotism and religiosity, and thereby distracting public opinion from their dirty deeds. That is, can Buddhists / Buddhist communities turn a blind eye to the dirty deeds of such regimes in exchange for their support, or, at least, their loyalty? Does this contradict the tantric samayas and the bodhisattva vow?
I don't know, what did the Buddha do when he lived in a non-democratic society?
Of course, since then nothing has changed, right? :jumping:

User avatar
PeterC
Posts: 1618
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:38 pm

Re: Buddhism in non-democratic countries

Post by PeterC » Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:28 am

Viach wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:22 am
PeterC wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:29 am
Viach wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:20 am
Can members of Buddhist communities and / or Buddhist communities on behalf of all their members support authoritarian, totalitarian, non-democratic regimes while inside countries with such regimes? Indeed, on the one hand, all such regimes are based on lies, violence, corruption and theft, which fundamentally contradicts the principles of Buddhism. But, on the other hand, such regimes may even support or, at least, not repress Buddhists and / or Buddhist communities, using such relationships with Buddhists as imitation of patriotism and religiosity, and thereby distracting public opinion from their dirty deeds. That is, can Buddhists / Buddhist communities turn a blind eye to the dirty deeds of such regimes in exchange for their support, or, at least, their loyalty? Does this contradict the tantric samayas and the bodhisattva vow?
I don't know, what did the Buddha do when he lived in a non-democratic society?
Of course, since then nothing has changed, right? :jumping:
OK, I'll spell it out

The Buddha lived in a profoundly undemocratic and, by today's standards, unjust society. He spent almost zero time worrying about these issues, because they do not lead to liberation

The Dharma has, over the centuries, flourished in profoundly democratic and, by today's standards, unjust societies, and most great practitioners and teachers of the Dharma have generally spent very little time worrying about these issues, because they do not lead to liberation

So if we, today, find ourselves living in profoundly undemocratic and unjust societies, the Dharma in no way requires us to do anything about them, because those issues do not lead to liberation.

Of course we might decide that we want to do something about the societies we live in. Perhaps. But there's no Buddhist commandment requiring us to do so.

Viach
Posts: 160
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:30 am

Re: Buddhism in non-democratic countries

Post by Viach » Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:51 am

PeterC wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:28 am
Viach wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:22 am
PeterC wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:29 am


I don't know, what did the Buddha do when he lived in a non-democratic society?
Of course, since then nothing has changed, right? :jumping:
OK, I'll spell it out

The Buddha lived in a profoundly undemocratic and, by today's standards, unjust society. He spent almost zero time worrying about these issues, because they do not lead to liberation

The Dharma has, over the centuries, flourished in profoundly democratic and, by today's standards, unjust societies, and most great practitioners and teachers of the Dharma have generally spent very little time worrying about these issues, because they do not lead to liberation

So if we, today, find ourselves living in profoundly undemocratic and unjust societies, the Dharma in no way requires us to do anything about them, because those issues do not lead to liberation.

Of course we might decide that we want to do something about the societies we live in. Perhaps. But there's no Buddhist commandment requiring us to do so.
No. There's Buddhist commandment requiring us to do so. Namely, the commandment not to lie. Today, Buddhism has become the state religion in many non-democratic states. Therefore, Buddhists in these countries are responsible for working closely with such regimes. For they cannot but lie supporting such regimes.

User avatar
PeterC
Posts: 1618
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:38 pm

Re: Buddhism in non-democratic countries

Post by PeterC » Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:02 am

Viach wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:51 am
PeterC wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:28 am
Viach wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:22 am

Of course, since then nothing has changed, right? :jumping:
OK, I'll spell it out

The Buddha lived in a profoundly undemocratic and, by today's standards, unjust society. He spent almost zero time worrying about these issues, because they do not lead to liberation

The Dharma has, over the centuries, flourished in profoundly democratic and, by today's standards, unjust societies, and most great practitioners and teachers of the Dharma have generally spent very little time worrying about these issues, because they do not lead to liberation

So if we, today, find ourselves living in profoundly undemocratic and unjust societies, the Dharma in no way requires us to do anything about them, because those issues do not lead to liberation.

Of course we might decide that we want to do something about the societies we live in. Perhaps. But there's no Buddhist commandment requiring us to do so.
No. There's Buddhist commandment requiring us to do so. Namely, the commandment not to lie. Today, Buddhism has become the state religion in many non-democratic states. Therefore, Buddhists in these countries are responsible for working closely with such regimes. For they cannot but lie supporting such regimes.
Really? In which autocratic countries is Buddhism a state religion?

Viach
Posts: 160
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:30 am

Re: Buddhism in non-democratic countries

Post by Viach » Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:08 am

PeterC wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:02 am
Viach wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:51 am
PeterC wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:28 am


OK, I'll spell it out

The Buddha lived in a profoundly undemocratic and, by today's standards, unjust society. He spent almost zero time worrying about these issues, because they do not lead to liberation

The Dharma has, over the centuries, flourished in profoundly democratic and, by today's standards, unjust societies, and most great practitioners and teachers of the Dharma have generally spent very little time worrying about these issues, because they do not lead to liberation

So if we, today, find ourselves living in profoundly undemocratic and unjust societies, the Dharma in no way requires us to do anything about them, because those issues do not lead to liberation.

Of course we might decide that we want to do something about the societies we live in. Perhaps. But there's no Buddhist commandment requiring us to do so.
No. There's Buddhist commandment requiring us to do so. Namely, the commandment not to lie. Today, Buddhism has become the state religion in many non-democratic states. Therefore, Buddhists in these countries are responsible for working closely with such regimes. For they cannot but lie supporting such regimes.
Really? In which autocratic countries is Buddhism a state religion?
e.g. Bhutan

User avatar
PeterC
Posts: 1618
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:38 pm

Re: Buddhism in non-democratic countries

Post by PeterC » Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:15 am

Viach wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:08 am
PeterC wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:02 am
Viach wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:51 am

No. There's Buddhist commandment requiring us to do so. Namely, the commandment not to lie. Today, Buddhism has become the state religion in many non-democratic states. Therefore, Buddhists in these countries are responsible for working closely with such regimes. For they cannot but lie supporting such regimes.
Really? In which autocratic countries is Buddhism a state religion?
e.g. Bhutan
Bhutan, with its population of about 750,000? You're clearly starting with the world's most urgent issues here. Any others?

Viach
Posts: 160
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:30 am

Re: Buddhism in non-democratic countries

Post by Viach » Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:26 am

PeterC wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:15 am
Viach wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:08 am
PeterC wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:02 am


Really? In which autocratic countries is Buddhism a state religion?

e.g. Bhutan
Bhutan, with its population of about 750,000? You're clearly starting with the world's most urgent issues here
Russia: Buddhism is one of the state religions here.

Simon E.
Posts: 7434
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Buddhism in non-democratic countries

Post by Simon E. » Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:28 am

Why is this in the Engaged Buddhism forum? It does not meet the criterion for that forum at all.
“The difference between us and Tara is that she knows she doesn’t exist”.

Viach
Posts: 160
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:30 am

Re: Buddhism in non-democratic countries

Post by Viach » Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:40 am

Simon E. wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:28 am
Why is this in the Engaged Buddhism forum? It does not meet the criterion for that forum at all.
:rolling:

Simon E.
Posts: 7434
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Buddhism in non-democratic countries

Post by Simon E. » Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:10 pm

Your response suggests to me that you have not grasped the point of the subforum. Which is about practising Buddhists engaged in Dharma activities through social and political action. It’s not an invitation to critique particular governments.
“The difference between us and Tara is that she knows she doesn’t exist”.

Viach
Posts: 160
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:30 am

Re: Buddhism in non-democratic countries

Post by Viach » Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:15 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:10 pm
Your response suggests to me that you have not grasped the point of the subforum. Which is about practising Buddhists engaged in Dharma activities through social and political action. It’s not an invitation to critique particular governments.
:jumping:

User avatar
PeterC
Posts: 1618
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:38 pm

Re: Buddhism in non-democratic countries

Post by PeterC » Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:36 pm

Viach wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:26 am
PeterC wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:15 am
Viach wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:08 am



e.g. Bhutan
Bhutan, with its population of about 750,000? You're clearly starting with the world's most urgent issues here
Russia: Buddhism is one of the state religions here.
Now you’re just being silly

Simon E.
Posts: 7434
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Buddhism in non-democratic countries

Post by Simon E. » Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:47 pm

Surprise surprise.
“The difference between us and Tara is that she knows she doesn’t exist”.

Viach
Posts: 160
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:30 am

Re: Buddhism in non-democratic countries

Post by Viach » Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:48 pm

PeterC wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:36 pm
Viach wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:26 am
PeterC wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:15 am


Bhutan, with its population of about 750,000? You're clearly starting with the world's most urgent issues here
Russia: Buddhism is one of the state religions here.
Now you’re just being silly

Why?

User avatar
PeterC
Posts: 1618
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:38 pm

Re: Buddhism in non-democratic countries

Post by PeterC » Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:16 pm

Viach wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:48 pm
PeterC wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:36 pm
Viach wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:26 am


Russia: Buddhism is one of the state religions here.
Now you’re just being silly

Why?
Russia, the devoutly Buddhist country where Dharma practitioners plays an important role in government.

Viach
Posts: 160
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:30 am

Re: Buddhism in non-democratic countries

Post by Viach » Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:28 pm

PeterC wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:16 pm
Viach wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:48 pm
PeterC wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:36 pm


Now you’re just being silly

Why?
Russia, the devoutly Buddhist country where Dharma practitioners plays an important role in government.
Russia is non-democratic country where corruption thrives, political repression, political killings and torture in prisons.Those who participate in such a government and call themselves Buddhists only dishonor Buddhism.

Post Reply

Return to “Engaged Buddhism”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests