Recovering from Trauma

Requesting and offering prayers and aspirations for those in need.
Motova
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Re: Recovering from Trauma

Post by Motova » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:47 pm

Bristollad wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:48 am
issuing ultimatums, planning humiliation, etc...

Does this sound like the compassionate motivation we try to cultivate as the basis for the path? If your parents behave in a toxic way towards to you then of course it is okay to create some distance but our fundamental practise of this life should be, at least, to try not to harm others. Rather than worrying about what you said to a stranger while under the influence (self-medication is rarely a good idea), maybe dialling down the rhetoric of revenge and anger towards your family would be a start.
"out of loving kindness, disparaging and spreading discord to separate people from false spiritual guides and non-virtuous friends to whom they have become attached;

if talking calmly does not deter them, speaking very harshly to and humiliating, out of love, those who have fallen into error and negative behaviour;"

https://www.lotsawahouse.org/tibetan-ma ... iderations

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Grigoris
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Re: Recovering from Trauma

Post by Grigoris » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:10 pm

Motova wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:47 pm
...to separate people from false spiritual guides and non-virtuous friends...
If this was your motivation, then the actions you are planning would be fine. But it is quite clear that this is not your motivation.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Motova
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Re: Recovering from Trauma

Post by Motova » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:28 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:10 pm
Motova wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:47 pm
...to separate people from false spiritual guides and non-virtuous friends...
If this was your motivation, then the actions you are planning would be fine. But it is quite clear that this is not your motivation.
Please explain.

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Grigoris
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Re: Recovering from Trauma

Post by Grigoris » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:46 pm

Motova wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:28 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:10 pm
Motova wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:47 pm
...to separate people from false spiritual guides and non-virtuous friends...
If this was your motivation, then the actions you are planning would be fine. But it is quite clear that this is not your motivation.
Please explain.
I am sure you can figure it out yourself.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Motova
Posts: 1301
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:05 pm

Re: Recovering from Trauma

Post by Motova » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:11 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:46 pm
Motova wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:28 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:10 pm
If this was your motivation, then the actions you are planning would be fine. But it is quite clear that this is not your motivation.
Please explain.
I am sure you can figure it out yourself.
I will.

OK now I understand oral transmission, thanks to one of the SMS instructors, and that I never had the possibility of giving it. I also understand better what information I may give and how I may give it if someone is curious about Dzogchen.

What an amazing Christmas Birthday present this experience has been. So many mental and physical obstacles have been cleared... you would not believe me. So. Many. Things. Cleared.

Thank you Gurus.

Thank you Dharma protectors, you definitely delivered.

I am finally happy and at peace with Vajrayana and me. :twothumbsup:

And thank you Malcolm, Malcolm really helped me so much.

I feel like I graduated Dharmawheel....

Time to purify!

Please lock this thread, I have no more issues.

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Vasana
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Re: Recovering from Trauma

Post by Vasana » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:45 pm

To Echo and add a few things.

First; Try and stay sober for a while. I had 'episodes' induced by weed and delusions when I was younger and a few others seemed to come out of nowhere later in my life, but undoubedtly due to my lifestyle and the conditioning of my nervous system. The truth is that if your mind/body is susceptible to these kinds of breakdowns, you in particular need to be extra cautious in how you live your life. If I knew that back then, I could of probably avoided some of the later and more challenging 'episodes'.

Despite their difficulty, you do learn a lot about yourself so go easy on yourself and see this as a steep learning curve. Try not to burn any bridges either but set boundaries and have time out from certain people and places if you need to.

Depending on the kind of trauma, body and somatic based practices can help since trauma is not just mental but involves the brain,body,nervous system etc. There's a limit to resolving it all purely through the mind. Check out the work of Peter Levine and Bessel van der Kolk for this topic. In general, Body-based practices can help sort out any nervousness you might still have and at the very least might help you get some clearer thinking going forward.
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

Pero
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Re: Recovering from Trauma

Post by Pero » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:15 pm

Vasana wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:45 pm
To Echo and add a few things.

First; Try and stay sober for a while. I had 'episodes' induced by weed and delusions when I was younger and a few others seemed to come out of nowhere later in my life, but undoubedtly due to my lifestyle and the conditioning of my nervous system. The truth is that if your mind/body is susceptible to these kinds of breakdowns, you in particular need to be extra cautious in how you live your life. If I knew that back then, I could of probably avoided some of the later and more challenging 'episodes'.

Despite their difficulty, you do learn a lot about yourself so go easy on yourself and see this as a steep learning curve. Try not to burn any bridges either but set boundaries and have time out from certain people and places if you need to.

Depending on the kind of trauma, body and somatic based practices can help since trauma is not just mental but involves the brain,body,nervous system etc. There's a limit to resolving it all purely through the mind. Check out the work of Peter Levine and Bessel van der Kolk for this topic. In general, Body-based practices can help sort out any nervousness you might still have and at the very least might help you get some clearer thinking going forward.
:good:
Also I'm sorry to say Motova, it's not very likely you've suddenly become issue free. From personal experience I can tell you that sometimes you can kind of go from hell to heaven and think there's no issues anymore and eveything is fine but then eventually you fall back down and see all those issues are still there, although possibly not as strong as before. So be careful.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

Motova
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Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:05 pm

Re: Recovering from Trauma

Post by Motova » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:32 pm

Vasana wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:45 pm
To Echo and add a few things.

First; Try and stay sober for a while. I had 'episodes' induced by weed and delusions when I was younger and a few others seemed to come out of nowhere later in my life, but undoubedtly due to my lifestyle and the conditioning of my nervous system. The truth is that if your mind/body is susceptible to these kinds of breakdowns, you in particular need to be extra cautious in how you live your life. If I knew that back then, I could of probably avoided some of the later and more challenging 'episodes'.

Despite their difficulty, you do learn a lot about yourself so go easy on yourself and see this as a steep learning curve. Try not to burn any bridges either but set boundaries and have time out from certain people and places if you need to.

Depending on the kind of trauma, body and somatic based practices can help since trauma is not just mental but involves the brain,body,nervous system etc. There's a limit to resolving it all purely through the mind. Check out the work of Peter Levine and Bessel van der Kolk for this topic. In general, Body-based practices can help sort out any nervousness you might still have and at the very least might help you get some clearer thinking going forward.
Thank you. My fear of Vajrayana is gone, and I am fixing my situation. Everything is going very well. There is no need for weed anymore... or ever. I feel the positivity and joy I had before I received my empowerments and went all OCD about samaya and Vajra Hell. It's like that awesome feeling I had when I was first discovering Tibetan Buddhism, and was like woah man this is so cool and perfect!

A month before I hurt my back (which is almost better), I did a bunch of ChNNR Tun Book... a lot of Ganapuja and Medium Tun. I made a lot of wishes and I basically got them all... phowa course... Vajrasattva course... photographic memory... three year retreat... absolute certainty in Vajrayana... i still haven't found a wife yet though. None of that would've been possible without hurting my back by sleeping on a pillow wrong. ChNNR saved Vajrayana for me, I feel very appreciative.

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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Recovering from Trauma

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:42 pm

Pero wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:15 pm
Vasana wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:45 pm
To Echo and add a few things.

First; Try and stay sober for a while. I had 'episodes' induced by weed and delusions when I was younger and a few others seemed to come out of nowhere later in my life, but undoubedtly due to my lifestyle and the conditioning of my nervous system. The truth is that if your mind/body is susceptible to these kinds of breakdowns, you in particular need to be extra cautious in how you live your life. If I knew that back then, I could of probably avoided some of the later and more challenging 'episodes'.

Despite their difficulty, you do learn a lot about yourself so go easy on yourself and see this as a steep learning curve. Try not to burn any bridges either but set boundaries and have time out from certain people and places if you need to.

Depending on the kind of trauma, body and somatic based practices can help since trauma is not just mental but involves the brain,body,nervous system etc. There's a limit to resolving it all purely through the mind. Check out the work of Peter Levine and Bessel van der Kolk for this topic. In general, Body-based practices can help sort out any nervousness you might still have and at the very least might help you get some clearer thinking going forward.
:good:
Also I'm sorry to say Motova, it's not very likely you've suddenly become issue free. From personal experience I can tell you that sometimes you can kind of go from hell to heaven and think there's no issues anymore and eveything is fine but then eventually you fall back down and see all those issues are still there, although possibly not as strong as before. So be careful.

Agreed.

I don't think trauma is something we ever really completely lose, we can minimize the symptoms of trauma-induced PTSD and such, but being "free" of trauma and resulting neuroses is really an unrealistic expectation prior to a serious level of realization, and probably a counterproductive one. I think that conforms with both a Western Pysch perspective and a Buddhist one. The thing is to live the life we want to live even with whatever issues are going on, and not to make that dependent on being "free" of something.

People tend to think that their trauma, mental health issues, relationship issues etc. are standing in the way of them doing what they want, but I think the reality is often different, people can live the lives they want even with all that stuff going on, plenty do. It's actually battling all that stuff that is the issue - the assumption that one has to be free of trauma etc.

I mean really it's just the first noble truth, having realistic expectations of samsara.
His welcoming
& rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
Knowing the dustless, sorrowless state,
he discerns rightly,
has gone, beyond becoming,
to the Further Shore.

-Lokavipatti Sutta

Pero
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Re: Recovering from Trauma

Post by Pero » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:06 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:42 pm
I don't think trauma is something we ever really completely lose, we can minimize the symptoms of trauma-induced PTSD and such, but being "free" of trauma and resulting neuroses is really an unrealistic expectation prior to a serious level of realization, and probably a counterproductive one. I think that conforms with both a Western Pysch perspective and a Buddhist one. The thing is to live the life we want to live even with whatever issues are going on, and not to make that dependent on being "free" of something.
I don't know about that, I think it should be possible to be free of trauma without a serious level of realization in the Buddhist sense.
People tend to think that their trauma, mental health issues, relationship issues etc. are standing in the way of them doing what they want, but I think the reality is often different, people can live the lives they want even with all that stuff going on, plenty do. It's actually battling all that stuff that is the issue - the assumption that one has to be free of trauma etc.
Good point, I'm afraid I often did/do that...
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

Motova
Posts: 1301
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:05 pm

Re: Recovering from Trauma

Post by Motova » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:36 pm

I've been doing a lot of reflecting. Trying to piece together when I messed up in Vajrayana....

I was doing this a lot right before my meltdown... trying to fit everything perfectly into a neat box.

I definitely regret all of the stupid shit.

But I don't know what else I could have did.

I had such strong strong momentum and so little options when I started Vajrayana.

I started Buddhism with Tibetan Buddhism, spent a year gathering empowerments, then started DC... basically my first Buddhist practice was Dzogchen so I was guaranteed to be confused and terrified.

I came into Buddhism as a messed up abused broke kid. Still thinking of what degree I wanted to do, what career I wanted, and which ethnicity I wanted my future wife to be.... Still growing up.

Then BAM! I get disabled by a pillow. Chronic pain. Deformed. Abuse. Intense fear of Vajrayana. No idea what I will do with my life. And Sogyal and Shambala............................... It all happened so fast. Right after I started to really accumulate a serious practice, specifically not to go through the mess that I went through.

I tried super hard for none of this to happen, but it all seems like it was predestined or guided; it seems I was in the perfect situation to be influenced by the protectors.

I think I'd be on a much more worse timeline if it weren't for that pillow.

If it weren't for that nyam, I'd still be terrified of higher tantra.

Today I turned 25, and now I feel enthusiastic about doing Guru Yoga as opposed to... omg I need to do this or I will burn in Vajra Hell for forever. Thank you for the Birthday present Rinpoche. :bow: And thanks to my medical leave, and my future undergraduate degree I can tailor the next five years of my life to be safe and relaxed while trying to recognize the nature of mind.

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