Is it wrong to control the mind?

Discussion of meditation in the Mahayana and Vajrayana traditions.
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leveraldo8
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Is it wrong to control the mind?

Post by leveraldo8 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:50 pm

Is it wrong to control the mind? Why do people say that we can only observe the mind?

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LastLegend
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Re: Is it wrong to control the mind?

Post by LastLegend » Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:07 pm

leveraldo8 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:50 pm
Is it wrong to control the mind? Why do people say that we can only observe the mind?
That depends on your practice. If you are taming the wild ox, when discriminating intention arises you are directing towards the non-discriminating state.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Is it wrong to control the mind?

Post by PadmaVonSamba » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:53 pm

Not, "wrong"... but you have to examine what you mean by "control".
What this usually means is, during meditation, thoughts arise. You don't try to suppress them.
Don't indulge them, but also don't try to "not think".
Thoughts arise, you just give them room and return to watching your breath or whatever your focus is.
So, don't try to control thoughts.

But, controlling the mind, meaning to intentionally focus the mind,
or to make an effort not to get attached to passing emotions,
to discipline the mind, that's different from controlling thoughts.

If your focus is watching the mind itself, letting the mind rest and observing it, or examining if it can be found anywhere, etc.,
if the mind is an object of your awareness, then you don't need to make it do anything.
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seeker242
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Re: Is it wrong to control the mind?

Post by seeker242 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:24 am

The Buddha thinks is quite fine to control the mind. Definitely not wrong :smile:
"Monks, I know not of any other single thing that brings such woe as the mind that is untamed, uncontrolled, unguarded and unrestrained. Such a mind indeed brings great woe.

"Monks, I know not of any other single thing that brings such bliss as the mind that is tamed, controlled, guarded and restrained. Such a mind indeed brings great bliss."
One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!

yadi
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Re: Is it wrong to control the mind?

Post by yadi » Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:07 pm

It you dont understand how a car works, you cannot control it. On the other hand, if you do understand how a car works, it is easy to control.

If you dont understand how to drive you might try to control the car by forcefully pushing it. In the same way, if you dont understand the mind you might try to control it by forcefully stopping yourself from thinking. But, from what I hear, this is not the best way to go about it.

To control the mind you first need to understand how it works. I think that there is the hardest thing to do. Once you understand it, im guessing you just need to develop your body and mind so that you have no distractions. 0nly then can you take control of your own mind.

tkp67
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Re: Is it wrong to control the mind?

Post by tkp67 » Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:49 pm

I really enjoy The Simile of the Cup by Ajahn Brahm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd0haCa ... index=3&t=

my anecdotal understanding is we do chose letting of the mind's grassing though the mind's desire to grasp so pervasive it requires constant practice of cognitively letting go of control until it becomes intuitive.

so the question remains Is the relinquishing of grasping control?

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catmoon
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Re: Is it wrong to control the mind?

Post by catmoon » Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:17 am

tkp67 wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:49 pm
I really enjoy The Simile of the Cup by Ajahn Brahm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd0haCa ... index=3&t=

my anecdotal understanding is we do chose letting of the mind's grassing though the mind's desire to grasp so pervasive it requires constant practice of cognitively letting go of control until it becomes intuitive.

so the question remains Is the relinquishing of grasping control?

The human mind insists that such a question MUST have a simple yes or no answer. It has no such answer. To understand this is great progress.
Sergeant Schultz knew everything there was to know.

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kirtu
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Re: Is it wrong to control the mind?

Post by kirtu » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:09 pm

leveraldo8 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:50 pm
Is it wrong to control the mind? Why do people say that we can only observe the mind?
No. Sometimes you have to actually control the mind, esp. when you hit a period of serious mental or volitional karmic ripening.

However observing the mind leads to actual insight.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

Jesse
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Re: Is it wrong to control the mind?

Post by Jesse » Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:43 pm

Giving up on controlling the mind (non-grasping) is essentially a method of controlling the mind. No matter what words are used to describe it. Control, Taming, etc.

The feeling of needing to 'control' what's happening in the mind results from clinging to mental phenomena. Once clinging is relinquished, thoughts lose all power over you, their true nature is perceived. Ideas like controlling the mind become laughable as you understand the essential mistake being made. The fundamental flaw is a misunderstanding that has been conditioned by being attached to our thinking, thoughts, ideas, etc.
The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
-Henry David Thoreau

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Grigoris
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Re: Is it wrong to control the mind?

Post by Grigoris » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:30 pm

If one thought suddenly arises, you can neither lock it up with a thousand locks nor tie it down with ten thousand feet of rope. How, then, can you strive to extinguish it or bring it to an end? Let me explain this clearly. Say you want to shut off this blazing consciousness, which is like a mirage. You may say it is close, but you’ll never discover it anywhere in all the worlds of the ten directions. You may presume it is distant, but you find it right before your eyes. If you follow it, it just gets further away. If you try to avoid it, it keeps following you. You can neither grab hold of it nor let go of it. If you know this, you will know that it is the same for the nature of all dharmas. There’s no use being worried or anxious about it."
(II.29)
Stolen from a social media post by Astus. :P
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