Becoming impatient

Discussion of meditation in the Mahayana and Vajrayana traditions.
HandsomeMonkeyking
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:36 pm

Becoming impatient

Post by HandsomeMonkeyking » Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:03 pm

Since starting meditation I face many difficulties, most of which subside, when just obersving for a longer period of time.

However i have one problem:
I am kind of impatient with others. If what they are doing is so clearly wrong and afterwards they wonder why things turned out badly.
I live with several other people in one apartment. And some of them are kind of confsued persons, and stupid things to to them. At first it was easy to just accept that, sometimes offer a hint how to prevent it. But sometimes t happens that its just so clearly not the way to go, and if this happens a lot on one day i am becoming upset/angry/impatient/confused inside. I never show to them but still its there. A really strong feeling.

I thought: Maybe I should add something else to my shamatha practise. What do you think? I heard of loving kindness meditation. Which i never received instructions in nor read them.
At first I thought to concentrate on one thing at a time, but maybe ths is complementary.

Looking forward to your hints.

smcj
Posts: 5631
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: Becoming impatient

Post by smcj » Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:12 pm

Lol, how do you think enlightened beings feel about us?
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.

Karma Dondrup Tashi
Posts: 1566
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:13 pm

Re: Becoming impatient

Post by Karma Dondrup Tashi » Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:13 pm

Consistent shamatha will turn over your rock.

A sign of progress or approaching a realization perhaps.

EDIT. Curious children turn over rocks. It's wonderful.

User avatar
Losal Samten
Posts: 1408
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:05 pm

Re: Becoming impatient

Post by Losal Samten » Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:01 pm

HandsomeMonkeyking wrote:I heard of loving kindness meditation. Which i never received instructions in nor read them.
Mind Training and Book of Kadam by Thupten Jinpa.
Lacking mindfulness, we commit every wrong. - Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔
ཨཱོཾ་མ་ཏྲི་མུ་ཡེ་སལེ་འདུ།།

HandsomeMonkeyking
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:36 pm

Re: Becoming impatient

Post by HandsomeMonkeyking » Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:44 pm

I have this since a long time, even before starting meditation. But it encreased a lot since then.

Thank you for the book Mothers Lap, I will get them, just have to decide which one first.

SeeLion
Posts: 195
Joined: Tue May 26, 2015 8:09 am

Re: Becoming impatient

Post by SeeLion » Fri Jul 17, 2015 10:03 pm

Besides loving kindness, wisdom should help, maybe try to see beyond right and wrong.

Helps me at least, I have that thing too. I also get irritated when I see "wrong view" in other people.
If what they are doing is so clearly wrong
It's not wrong, it seems a good idea at that time.

What is very wrong is you judging it to be wrong. But wait, that also seems the right thing to do at that time when you're doing it :P

Actually, this can be a good exercise for yourself, try to understand how come people act "wrongly" and why that course of action is the most ... natural at the time it's happening.

You can replace the impatient frustration with mindful curiosity. So instead of becoming frustrated that people do wrong things, try to see and understand how they think, and why they act the way they do.

And you may come to understand that often is not possible or even desirable to force positive change into people.

A lot of the thoughts and actions happen because we are conditioned to act a certain way, for example, people like me may be more inclined towards criticism and fault finding.

So people behave the way they do because that is the way their thoughts and desires flow, not because they try on purpose to do something evil or bad, maybe just to spite you.

---


You haven't described in detail a situation, but let me guess what may be happening:

- Impatience usually means formulating a mental projection of an expected result and waiting for the result to happen. This is a form of attachment.

So let's think about this: Why would things happen as we expect them to ? Maybe the result will never happen and maybe the opposite result will happen. If you remind yourself of this often, you may see the impatience diminishing.

Why should people do the right thing and not the wrong thing (wrong according to whom ) ?

Actually, how do we know what is right and what is wrong ? Do you and the other people involved get a vote ? Do I get a vote too and other people replying to your question ? Does my neighbor get a vote aswell ?

- Especially if you give them advice, you "self" becomes even more invested in the matter: those people better appreciate and follow it and dare not not waste such wise advice.

HandsomeMonkeyking
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:36 pm

Re: Becoming impatient

Post by HandsomeMonkeyking » Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:18 pm

No it is wrong.
For example:
Its 12, lunch time. Its really hot season right now, around 40 degrees. Every day my roomate complains about the heat. Then at 12am when its really hot, he opens both doors in that direction where the sun is and really hot air is coming in, and takes the god for a little walk. all the while letting the doors open because he forgot to shut them. its no joke. its like that. he is very confused. so he comes home. and after some minutes he realizes that its so hot in the room living room now. well strange, but if he would have let the doors shut and curtain closed it wouldnt be that hot.

sometimes he and his girlfriend eat breakfast, and then they get a message on their phone, from that they start surfing on that phone, from that .. after 3 hours he awaks from his phone experience and realizes "oh shit, i am really lake for work" so he stand up goes into the bathroom and leaves for work. his meal only have eaten because he forgot he wanted to have breakfast.

these are some minor examples about his confusion. its in a lot of aspects in his life. and of my other roommate. they are extreme cases but make a good example. i see a lot of things like this and mostly only notice them.

but i dont think you can say "its not wrong", because it is. it is contradictory to what he wants, because he doesnt have the reflection and cognition. not even in such daily tasks. clearly he should work on that to improve his situation and get more of what he actually wants.

so its not a problem with me judging, its me seeing how he gets disappointed/doesnt get what he desires but me also totally seeing that it is he himself who created that situation.

and this is on such a superficial level. like i said i only have this with more subtle things, but this was a good example to make clear what i mean.

User avatar
Ayu
Former staff member
Posts: 6950
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:25 am
Location: Europe

Re: Becoming impatient

Post by Ayu » Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:50 pm

I think, metta meditation or even tonglen will give the best way out. This will help to get "right or wrong" out of focus.
I learned it best in a leaded meditation by a tibetan monk in a course about Lojong.
Also a course about Shantidevas Bodhisattvacharyavatara could be of same value, since it deals widely about bodhicitta and the method of "Equalizing and Exchanging of the Attitude of Self and Others".
http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/x/nav ... 69469.html

Thoughts of "guilt, wrong & right" might be true but not helpful for such situations (which I know very well). Best decision is to leave them where they are and turn the focus to some more helpful thoughts.

Another remedy for me was to have more space: take refuge in my room and let the others do their mistakes however they like. Because my being annoyed is no help for them. If I can afford genuine compassion, I can try to help. But don't expect anything, just do and observe it.
I have decided to stick with love.
Hate is too great a burden to bear.
- Martin Luther King, Jr. -

joy&peace
Posts: 944
Joined: Mon May 11, 2015 4:53 pm

Re: Becoming impatient

Post by joy&peace » Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:11 pm

Loved this thread and the question posed -

I suppose because I can relate to this - this is all very understandable. . . These are universal issues which relate to each human being on the planet; that is why I suppose I say, I love this topic. :)

Breathe and release, breathe and release. .
in nature, sort of method of practice. .
this type of situation, and many shades of it, may arise innumerable times. . . how to relate to others includes all these and many more.
how we interact with the world goes through so many changes. . . as we get more skillful, we can navigate more easily in many cases. .
one part of practice is like - brain chemistry. . . like, you could look at an experienced meditator and notice differences. . .


they first started noticing this type of thing over a decade or two ago. .
my current understanding is the brain centers relating to compassion and empathy are getting lighted up more, which makes sense. .
naturally - since the goal is to tap into these resources; of compassion and empathy - over a life-long practice,
to get angry about something in the world is to go astray slightly;
eventually it's possible to leave all of it so far it becomes nothing.
then the energy is still seen when it arises in the world, but it's not felt with the same attachment
it's just 'there,' that destructive energy. . . and then coming into contact with it, it can be still felt;

anyway at its most basic - these situations will arise so many times; so many shades, we grow and learn, learn, adapt,
become more adept at changing very tiny details to make the whole thing work better. . .
in other words, 'Gentle Action,' not a Buddhist concept but a related psychology-one,
the Buddhist form in play would be Wu-wei, and relating concepts. . . stillness . .
many years ago I read a nice article about 'slow mind' - or maybe it was in one about 'big mind, small mind' - lovely piece.
they made the point, that a mind that turns slowly, does not get to anger quickly. .
and so recently, i have been understanding, that slowness is an aid to stillness;
but of course, i did not create or invent this thought, merely continuing it -
'drink your tea slowly and reverently, as if the entire earth were rotating on its axis.'


'smile, breathe, and go slowly.' - Thich Nhat Hanh



I guess to say most simply- it's always the same, and it's always new. And once again, it's very wonderful to see this posts - developing compassion to its fullest extent. . . is really the most expedient means. . . whatever those are for you - are unique to you - but anger, and so forth, is like holding a burning coal, as Buddha said; it only burns the one holding it.

Know for certain there is no reason to be angry - throughout the whole world, there isn't. Change, yes; action - yep, resolution - very much so. But anger hardly factors into any of those. . . it's simply something to be healed. . . Yet it's not outside of us - it's part of us too; so also to learn to embrace it with love, with compassion - our own emotion - can tend to melt or dissolve it. . .


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIKoxog1eR4
Om Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate bodhi svaha

joy&peace
Posts: 944
Joined: Mon May 11, 2015 4:53 pm

Re: Becoming impatient

Post by joy&peace » Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:34 pm

Apply the method or practice - what is your practice - at each stage in the journey. .

in the beginning, middle, or end, it will always be helpful. There may be one, 2, 3 or a hundred stages, or a thousand, it sort of depends on view-point, they are also all here and now.
You have care for your friends, and compassion - and this is why you wish them to make better decisions.
I guess, all I can say is, all of it comes from within. . so meditate on it for years. . and come to the conclusion yourself - and by conclusion i mean a never-ending series of new understanding, each day is new; our lives are new, we see something new. . .


at my best it seems i will sail forever - at my worst i slip more slightly than anything i could measure, and it is no matter, i return immediately on to course.
and all the words we say are not absolutely true - at best in samsara, you have relatively true;

yet it is also true according to scripture that this present moment, here and now, is nirvana, and we can see it, if we transform our heart and mind.
nirvana is said to transcend every concept, every mental, physical, emotional formation we could make. . . yet we are also supposed to be able to experience it in this lifetime. . .
and indeed there is nothing to add. . . and this one mantra, might be a good one actually, 'there is nothing to add. . .'
in what variation, any variation you may say, 'it's all good.'



we have care for others - yet it is precisely non-attachment which brings liberation, peace, and fearlessness. . . so we apply this same sword to each new arising phenomena as well: Non-attachment.

This is like a sword for cutting your way out of the jungle of samsara: don't forget the aspect of gentleness, or softness. . .



one of the tenets of Buddhism is: do not cause harm - do not cause anxiety.


there's a lot of samsara,

but there's a lot of nirvana, too.


Am I at peace, even when my loved ones suffer?

Yes, because I would not them to lose peace, if the roles were reversed.
Om Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate bodhi svaha

User avatar
avisitor
Posts: 135
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:03 pm

Re: Becoming impatient

Post by avisitor » Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:13 pm

HandsomeMonkeyking wrote:Since starting meditation I face many difficulties, most of which subside, when just obersving for a longer period of time.

However i have one problem:
I am kind of impatient with others.
One knows one has a problem ... that is a beginnning
Being impatient with others usually means that one believes one to be better than others
Or would not do as others have done .. no mistakes in one's life??

Everything one sees is a reflection of oneself
One is not separate but a part of ...

Russell
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 11:13 pm

Re: Becoming impatient

Post by Russell » Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:35 pm

HandsomeMonkeyking wrote:No it is wrong.
...
Ok, but what use is this thinking?

You need to place these kinds of thoughts in a bigger picture and that is where you can find a meaningful context for your vexation.

So start to examine your motivation for thinking these things and start to take control of your mind and direct it in a more positive way. The only point of this kind of thinking is to develop our understanding so we can help ourselves and others. But also, if you want to help people you need to become a living example of what it is like to be geniunely happy. So make that your bigger focus, because that requires you to get your own life and emotions together and use your mind in much more pratical ways and if you do this you may well find your mind simply loses interest in criticising others lifes becasue there is usually no practical reason for doing so.

May be useful to compare yourself to people who do this to extreme degree, very miserable people, always critising others while doing nothing to improve and enjoy their own life, nothing nice to say about people, no warm emotions etc then develop some real motivation to not become someone like that but to become the opposite - someone very practical, cheerful, looking after themselves and their life with lots of positivity to share with others etc.

Or study more for example.. but in general find something active and worthwhile for your mind to do when you are not practising shamata !

Good luck
:thumbsup:

SeeLion
Posts: 195
Joined: Tue May 26, 2015 8:09 am

Re: Becoming impatient

Post by SeeLion » Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:02 pm

but i dont think you can say "its not wrong", because it is.
Hmm, can you at least not say "it's wrong" ? Please ?

The reality is what it is.

Sometimes people forget, sometimes they make mistakes or maybe a lot of mistakes, other times they behave in a contradictory manner.

All that is real and it's more real than wrong.

Why do you find it helpful to superimpose a second layer of thoughts on top of it, a labeling/judging layer ?
it is contradictory to what he wants
Yes, we all have this same problem, this is why we aren't enlightened yet.

We "want" things that we hope will bring us happiness, but instead our desires bring us suffering.

By the way: there is no contradiction - While he is surfing on the phone, he wants to surf, and only later he wants to go to work.
so its not a problem with me judging
You judging is part of your problem (not his problem).

To be more precise, the following part of your problem:

"becoming upset/angry/impatient/confused inside "

When you judge, you also react to your judgement, you invest emotions into it.

-------
clearly he should work on that to improve his situation
Maybe he will, if not in this life, maybe next life.

Improvement is possible, but first it needs acceptance.

Accept that there is a problem and that the problem will stick with you for a while ...

And if one is "working in it", the problem will still be there until it goes away. And it will certainly go away, sooner or later, because everything is impermanent.

Punya
Posts: 1211
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:50 pm

Re: Becoming impatient

Post by Punya » Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:21 pm

Right and wrong are just concepts and as you continue to practice HMK the judgemental mind will subside. In the meantime, a slogan I picked up from reading a lot of self help books before coming to buddhism is "everybody is doing the best they can". It's a way of thinking compassionately about your flatmates, other people and also yourself.

I know we love to go around "fixing" things, but really it's best to work on our own minds. Sharon Salzberg's book Loving Kindness contains good advice and short meditations. You might also find Pema Chodron's Start Where You Are: A Guide to Compassionate Living (or really any of her books) helpful too. They have a big emphasis on how to apply compassion in everyday life.
May the stupid meditators be awakened from the sleep of ignorance;
May the attacks of the logicians with their sophistries be vanquished.

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche in The Rain of Wisdom

firefly
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:00 am

Re: Becoming impatient

Post by firefly » Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:45 am

Hi Handsomemonkeyking. I had to post because I live with someone currently who is driving me mad. I have dealt with it using metta meditation. I don't know how I would survive without it. I learned from a Therevada monk you have probably heard of, Ajahn Brahm. You can search Ajahn Brahm Metta on Youtube and get talks and guided meditations....I know you are frustrated but your examples struck me as rather funny...maybe try to laugh some of it away. Clearly you have people who are somewhat childish. I have an 85 year old, very grumpy, miserable, controlling father to deal with, so it could always be worse for you! Give the metta a try. It will give you more patience and results usually don't take long...a week at the most.

HandsomeMonkeyking
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:36 pm

Re: Becoming impatient

Post by HandsomeMonkeyking » Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:24 pm

@Mothers Lap:

Through your recommendation I also found: A Fearless Heart: How the Courage to Be Compassionate Can Transform Our Lives by Thubten Jinpa.
It seems to be exactly what I need. I saw it's very new so I suppose you didn't know it yet or did you regard it as not good (because of not mentioning)? I suppose I will go for this one!

Thanks for all your help.

Punya
Posts: 1211
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:50 pm

Re: Becoming impatient

Post by Punya » Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:51 am

You really can't go wrong with anything written by Geshe Thubten Jinpa. Enjoy!
May the stupid meditators be awakened from the sleep of ignorance;
May the attacks of the logicians with their sophistries be vanquished.

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche in The Rain of Wisdom

madhusudan
Posts: 187
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:54 pm

Re: Becoming impatient

Post by madhusudan » Sat Jul 25, 2015 1:45 pm

It's great that you notice your impatience. If you were not impatient, there would be no chance to practice patience - one of the six paramitas. Because that is a precious opportunity, we can cherish the people who annoy us the most. Someone on this board once shared the story of how Atisha purposely kept a very annoying servant with him on his journey to Tibet. I found that instructional.

User avatar
Kaccāni
Posts: 1083
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:03 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Becoming impatient

Post by Kaccāni » Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:01 pm

HandsomeMonkeyking wrote: I am kind of impatient with others.
Good. Something you can work on.
If what they are doing is so clearly wrong
Maybe it had reason and purpose they did it that way, in a bigger picture? On a next step: Why is it so important they're doing it right? On another level: Who judges right or wrong?
I live with several other people in one apartment. And some of them are kind of confsued persons, and stupid things to to them.
Confusion is a good place to start.
But sometimes t happens that its just so clearly not the way to go,
... said all Brahmans to the Buddha.

Best wishes
Kc
Shush! I'm doing nose-picking practice!

HandsomeMonkeyking
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:36 pm

Re: Becoming impatient

Post by HandsomeMonkeyking » Tue Sep 01, 2015 8:11 pm

Mothers Lap: Thank you very much for the book recommendation. It is exactly what I was looking for.

Post Reply

Return to “Meditation”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests