Meditation techniques taught in paid meditation apps vs real mediation

Discussion of meditation in the Mahayana and Vajrayana traditions.
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rahulshah
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Meditation techniques taught in paid meditation apps vs real mediation

Post by rahulshah » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:22 pm

Paid meditation apps are popular nowadays
I had a question for the poeple who meditate on paid apps
1)Do you really meditate daily after paying that subscription

2)Do you really apply the principles learned in those audios in real life(for eg, not getting angry)

3)Any significant issues or disappointments in some of the popular apps (for eg, repetitive guided meditations without any actual new content all over the app)

4) are there any values which paid apps can never teach us, which can perhaps be learned only otherwise?

Thank you

charlesoak
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Re: Meditation techniques taught in paid meditation apps vs real mediation

Post by charlesoak » Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:40 pm

Thinks for this post. Really curious about this as well.

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Grigoris
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Re: Meditation techniques taught in paid meditation apps vs real mediation

Post by Grigoris » Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:53 am

rahulshah wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:22 pm
Paid meditation apps are popular nowadays
I had a question for the poeple who meditate on paid apps
1)Do you really meditate daily after paying that subscription

2)Do you really apply the principles learned in those audios in real life(for eg, not getting angry)

3)Any significant issues or disappointments in some of the popular apps (for eg, repetitive guided meditations without any actual new content all over the app)

4) are there any values which paid apps can never teach us, which can perhaps be learned only otherwise?

Thank you
An application cannot make you meditate. An application cannot make you behave in a certain manner. Some people meditate without applications, some people behave properly without applications (and the opposite).
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

narhwal90
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Re: Meditation techniques taught in paid meditation apps vs real mediation

Post by narhwal90 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:20 pm

Looked into the fancier meditation apps, went back to a simple app with nothing but a timer and a couple options for bells to mark start, midway, and conclusion. I use the app in applicable circumstances as a tool to time the session, not for entertainment or content. The various principles I concern myself with in meditation are well-conveyed by various podcast lectures, sutra materials and many commentaries.

What I value is that the app reliably takes over the screen so it does not lock, controls volume and when the timer starts, does not react to swipes or rotations. It would be nice if it would mute notifications & ringer automatically in the meditation period- the app I use doesn't do the muting. I would pay $5 for an app which does everything aforementioned and does not require any kind of login or data service and provides no content whatsoever. No sale if I have to create an account, log in, use data or listen to anything other than the bells that mark the session.

tkp67
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Re: Meditation techniques taught in paid meditation apps vs real mediation

Post by tkp67 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:38 pm

rahulshah wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:22 pm
4) are there any values which paid apps can never teach us, which can perhaps be learned only otherwise?

Thank you
To you last point specifically.

I had tried apps and meditation on my own and did not achieve satisfactory results and as a matter of practice had other vehicles to achieve the benefit of meditation which could be done alone and without a person.

Then years later went to a therapist who was also taught zen meditation (I was summarily offered zazen training for which I did not take but often consider the option). It is hard for me to explain but the person who had referred him had mentioned he was an empath and that he could take the mind and right it with his own.

He offered to teach me meditation and I experienced a transference of mind, a stillness that was not of my own but rather of his as if he aligned my very noisy mind that was constantly subject to arising suffering and helped me understand a peace in emptiness I would have never have known without and to this day when I meditate focusing on his voice and training can pull me out of a place in my mind I was unable to do on my own.

It lends much credence to the teacher/lama/guru/guide component which augmented my practice so profoundly I feel deeply indebted and grateful for the experience.

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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Meditation techniques taught in paid meditation apps vs real mediation

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:17 pm

The less props the better IMO - minus of course ritual implement.

Cell phones in particular are designed to steal your attention, which should be on your practice. So I think if one is going to use them you have to be careful in my opinion.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low

Jesse
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Re: Meditation techniques taught in paid meditation apps vs real mediation

Post by Jesse » Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:36 pm

I learned meditation without applications, but I have used some from time to time, mainly for the relaxing sounds.

I recently purchased an EEG headset, that has a meditation application(phone). This one works exceptionally well, it's based on neurofeedback.

https://choosemuse.com/muse-2/

The application will teach you meditation, but it also tracks your brainwave activity, heart rate, and body movements, and uses it to monitor certain things. It will give you a score at the end of each session, it shows how long you maintained a concentrated state, how many times the concentrated state was interrupted, and a number of other things.

It gives you live feedback while meditating as well, as your brainwaves signal deeper levels of relaxation, and concentration the app generates different sounds that let you gauge your current state, and progress. The application plays relaxing music, and will change the music slightly, or add in sounds like birds chirping the deeper your meditation state becomes.

Is it necessary? Absolutely not, but it would of been extremely helpful to me when I first started, because at that time I had no idea what to gauge my 'progress' on. I do now, but I still find using the headset/app fun, it also allows you to keep a log of your meditation sessions, which is cool.
The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
-Henry David Thoreau

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Grigoris
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Re: Meditation techniques taught in paid meditation apps vs real mediation

Post by Grigoris » Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:02 pm

Jesse wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:36 pm
I learned meditation without applications, but I have used some from time to time, mainly for the relaxing sounds.

I recently purchased an EEG headset, that has a meditation application(phone). This one works exceptionally well, it's based on neurofeedback.

https://choosemuse.com/muse-2/

The application will teach you meditation, but it also tracks your brainwave activity, heart rate, and body movements, and uses it to monitor certain things. It will give you a score at the end of each session, it shows how long you maintained a concentrated state, how many times the concentrated state was interrupted, and a number of other things.

It gives you live feedback while meditating as well, as your brainwaves signal deeper levels of relaxation, and concentration the app generates different sounds that let you gauge your current state, and progress. The application plays relaxing music, and will change the music slightly, or add in sounds like birds chirping the deeper your meditation state becomes.

Is it necessary? Absolutely not, but it would of been extremely helpful to me when I first started, because at that time I had no idea what to gauge my 'progress' on. I do now, but I still find using the headset/app fun, it also allows you to keep a log of your meditation sessions, which is cool.
That sounds really annoying and distracting.. :smile:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Jesse
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Location: Virginia, USA

Re: Meditation techniques taught in paid meditation apps vs real mediation

Post by Jesse » Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:50 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:02 pm
Jesse wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:36 pm
I learned meditation without applications, but I have used some from time to time, mainly for the relaxing sounds.

I recently purchased an EEG headset, that has a meditation application(phone). This one works exceptionally well, it's based on neurofeedback.

https://choosemuse.com/muse-2/

The application will teach you meditation, but it also tracks your brainwave activity, heart rate, and body movements, and uses it to monitor certain things. It will give you a score at the end of each session, it shows how long you maintained a concentrated state, how many times the concentrated state was interrupted, and a number of other things.

It gives you live feedback while meditating as well, as your brainwaves signal deeper levels of relaxation, and concentration the app generates different sounds that let you gauge your current state, and progress. The application plays relaxing music, and will change the music slightly, or add in sounds like birds chirping the deeper your meditation state becomes.

Is it necessary? Absolutely not, but it would of been extremely helpful to me when I first started, because at that time I had no idea what to gauge my 'progress' on. I do now, but I still find using the headset/app fun, it also allows you to keep a log of your meditation sessions, which is cool.
That sounds really annoying and distracting.. :smile:

It's not really, the headset is pretty light, and the music is in general good. The bird sounds aren't annoying either, neutral or mildly relaxing.
The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
-Henry David Thoreau

tatpurusa
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Re: Meditation techniques taught in paid meditation apps vs real mediation

Post by tatpurusa » Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:17 pm

1. If you pay attention to an app, you are not meditating, just cheating yourself.
2. If you have learnt not to pay attention to thoughts, emotions, internal and external
objects, you are meditating but might be making unnecessary effort in order to ignore that app. ..

Jesse
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Location: Virginia, USA

Re: Meditation techniques taught in paid meditation apps vs real mediation

Post by Jesse » Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:08 am

tatpurusa wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:17 pm
1. If you pay attention to an app, you are not meditating, just cheating yourself.
2. If you have learnt not to pay attention to thoughts, emotions, internal and external
objects, you are meditating but might be making unnecessary effort in order to ignore that app. ..
You can meditate just fine while paying attention to an "app"; as these apps play relaxing music, and have timers. Meditation isn't "not paying attention to thoughts', In fact, certain types of meditation specifically involve "paying attention" to thoughts, emotions, and internal sensations. The difference being you are not getting involved, or "clinging" to said phenomena; simply passively monitoring, and acknowledging them as they pass by.
The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
-Henry David Thoreau

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