US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

The best place for discussion of current events. News about Buddhists and Buddhism is particularly welcome.
pothigai
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:26 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by pothigai » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:43 am

Jeff H wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:08 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:30 am
justsit wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:59 pm

Apparently not, per this report in the Guardian dated April 14. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... -war-three.

"Another potential risk that failed to materialise was that an attack on chemical weapons might spread the poison, engulfing Syrian military personnel and civilians. Chemical weapons inspectors suggested such an outcome was unlikely, as a missile would blow up chemical weapons."

No additional scientific explanation was given.
Simply put, blowing up ingredients is not the same as blowing munitions
Maybe, but it still seems to me that places where chemical weapons are made must have some completed products as well as harmful ingredients in safe containers. A direct hit might incinerate any gases or germs, but collaterally damage such weapons and containers and cause unintended release.

Oddly (to me), I can't even find the question raised online (except for the reference JustSit found). But I did find this, which indicates it wasn't just ingredients:
General Joseph Dunford, chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, told reporters at a Pentagon briefing the first of the allied strikes was at a scientific research centre in greater Damascus involved in the development and production of chemical weapons.

The second was at a chemical weapons storage facility west of Homs, while the third was a storage facility and important command post.

He added: "Important infrastructure was destroyed which will result in a setback for the Syrian regime.

"They will lose years of research and development, storage and equipment."
Sarin is typically only made immediately prior to or even during the flight of shells containing it. This is because, unless produced in a very pure form, it tends to degrade fairly quickly.
ہستی اپنی حباب کی سی ہے
یہ نمائش سراب کی سی ہے

hasti apni habaab ki si hai
yeh numaaish saraab ki si hai

Like a bubble is your existence
This display is like an illusion

- Mir Taqi Mir (1725-1810)

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 17657
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Grigoris » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:43 am

Malcolm wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:25 pm
The Allies, Britain specifically, propped up a Hard Right government in Greece following WWII, in the early days of the first Cold War (we are in a second, now).
Hard right? That is an understatement! A government composed of Nazi collaborators! The British then brought in a Bavarian based royal family and ruled Greece via them for 3 years, before the far-right (Amerikan backed) military junta took over power for 6 years. Let us also not forget Britain's role in the invasion and (ongoing) partition of Cyprus.

And even before all of this there was the Italian Fascist attempted invasion and occupation (finally pulled off with help from their friends the German Nazis). And the German Nazi occupation which (together with the Italians and Bulgarians) lead to the largest number of Greek deaths in modern history (barring the liberation from the Ottoman Empire and the subsequent displacement of Greeks from Asia Minor): around 70,000 people were executed. That figure does not include the number of Greeks that died during the enforced starvation during the occupation (around 50,000 dead).

As you can see, the only major European power that Greece does not have a (direct) issue with is France.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 17657
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Grigoris » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:02 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:39 pm
Lucas Oliveira wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:11 pm
World war in sight?
Bombing tactic
  and
Russian answer
suggest that no

http://www.bbc.com/portuguese/internacional-43771683 (portuguese)

:namaste:
IDK, but the US has been bombing the Middle East and conducting proxy wars there for my entire lifetime. So if there's something to sound an alarm about, it started a long time ago.
While this is true, you will have to admit that apart from Afghanistan up until 1992, this is the first time with direct (post-Soviet) Russian involvement.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Jeff H
Posts: 872
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:56 pm
Location: Vermont, USA

Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Jeff H » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:09 pm

pothigai wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:43 am
Sarin is typically only made immediately prior to or even during the flight of shells containing it. This is because, unless produced in a very pure form, it tends to degrade fairly quickly.
Thanks for the info.
We who are like children shrink from pain but love its causes. - Shantideva

Wicked Yeshe
Posts: 151
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:42 am

Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Wicked Yeshe » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:14 pm

Sad and worrisome. May there be peace soon.

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 28247
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Malcolm » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:04 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:43 am
Malcolm wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:25 pm
The Allies, Britain specifically, propped up a Hard Right government in Greece following WWII, in the early days of the first Cold War (we are in a second, now).
Hard right? That is an understatement! A government composed of Nazi collaborators! The British then brought in a Bavarian based royal family and ruled Greece via them for 3 years, before the far-right (Amerikan backed) military junta took over power for 6 years. Let us also not forget Britain's role in the invasion and (ongoing) partition of Cyprus.

And even before all of this there was the Italian Fascist attempted invasion and occupation (finally pulled off with help from their friends the German Nazis). And the German Nazi occupation which (together with the Italians and Bulgarians) lead to the largest number of Greek deaths in modern history (barring the liberation from the Ottoman Empire and the subsequent displacement of Greeks from Asia Minor): around 70,000 people were executed. That figure does not include the number of Greeks that died during the enforced starvation during the occupation (around 50,000 dead).

As you can see, the only major European power that Greece does not have a (direct) issue with is France.
Communists and Fascists in the end amount to the same thing: concentration camps and mass killings. Don't forget, Stalin abandoned Greece.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 17657
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Grigoris » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:21 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:04 pm
Communists and Fascists in the end amount to the same thing: concentration camps and mass killings. Don't forget, Stalin abandoned Greece.
I can't say for sure if this is true. You see: Communists did not occupy Greece, execute tens of thousands of people, deport the vast majority of the Jewish population to death camps and purposefully starve tens of thousands of the non-combatant population to death. The Nazis did. I don't know if the Communists would have done this had they gained power, but I know the Nazis did. So...

And Stalin did not abandon Greece. The Greek Communist Party was being supplied with weapons and support via Yugoslavia, when Tito broke off ties with the USSR and sided with Mao, the supply route through Yugoslavia was cut off. You could ask: Why did they not continue to supply the Greek Communist Party through Bulgaria? Well, because Bulgaria and Greece were involved in a war with each other since Greece was expelling the Bulgarian Nazi collaborationist government from Greek territories. Don't forget that Bulgaria did not join the Eastern Bloc until after 1946. We also have to remember that Bulgaria and Russia never got on well, not even before the East-West divide, which is why they sided with Germany in both World Wars. And Greece and Bulgaria had been at conflict since the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. By the time Stalin sold out Greece, the situation was beyond redemption anyway.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 28247
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Malcolm » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:51 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:21 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:04 pm
Communists and Fascists in the end amount to the same thing: concentration camps and mass killings. Don't forget, Stalin abandoned Greece.
I can't say for sure if this is true. You see: Communists did not occupy Greece, execute tens of thousands of people, deport the vast majority of the Jewish population to death camps and purposefully starve tens of thousands of the non-combatant population to death. The Nazis did. I don't know if the Communists would have done this had they gained power, but I know the Nazis did. So...

And Stalin did not abandon Greece. The Greek Communist Party was being supplied with weapons and support via Yugoslavia, when Tito broke off ties with the USSR and sided with Mao, the supply route through Yugoslavia was cut off. You could ask: Why did they not continue to supply the Greek Communist Party through Bulgaria? Well, because Bulgaria and Greece were involved in a war with each other since Greece was expelling the Bulgarian Nazi collaborationist government from Greek territories. Don't forget that Bulgaria did not join the Eastern Bloc until after 1946. We also have to remember that Bulgaria and Russia never got on well, not even before the East-West divide, which is why they sided with Germany in both World Wars. And Greece and Bulgaria had been at conflict since the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. By the time Stalin sold out Greece, the situation was beyond redemption anyway.
Actually, Stalin traded Greece to Churchill in return for Romania in 1944.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percentages_agreement
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 17657
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Grigoris » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:12 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:51 pm
Actually, Stalin traded Greece to Churchill in return for Romania in 1944.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percentages_agreement
On paper, yes. But let's not forget that the USSR nver had troops in Greece (except for some military advisors), the British on the other hand (don't forget Cyprus). My paternal grandfather was involved in secretly moving British military from the coast of Turkey to Lesbos until the German Nazis got wind of it. The British then smuggled him from Lesbos to Egypt to fight in the war against the Nazis there. He returned a few years after the end of the war to become a police officer in the Far-Right government after WWII. Lesbos was a heavily Communist island. The partisans took full advantage of the heavily forested mountains to wage attacks against the Nazis during the occupation.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 28247
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Malcolm » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:20 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:12 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:51 pm
Actually, Stalin traded Greece to Churchill in return for Romania in 1944.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percentages_agreement
On paper, yes.
My point was that Greece, like the rest of eastern Europe and the Balkans, were like cards to be traded.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 17657
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Grigoris » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:22 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:20 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:12 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:51 pm
Actually, Stalin traded Greece to Churchill in return for Romania in 1944.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percentages_agreement
On paper, yes.
My point was that Greece, like the rest of eastern Europe and the Balkans, were like cards to be traded.
You won't see me disagreeing with that statement!
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Snowbear
Posts: 279
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:41 am

Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Snowbear » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:52 pm

Ogyen wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:13 am
Snowbear wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:17 am
Why do you feel the US does this?
Young (adolescent) culture, access to weapons, highly developed (stolen) technology which begets more technology, uncontrolled pharma interests, and combined it's like a teenager (the rich kid) with a gun, an iPhone with drone app, a bottle of booze, and a bottle of pills testing the limits of every other older country.....?

Ok... I'm oversimplifying..

#growingpains

:rolling:
You feel it is an immaturity. What do you mean by that immaturity, and which countries do you feel are mature?

User avatar
Snowbear
Posts: 279
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:41 am

Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Snowbear » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:56 pm

The Cicada wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:47 am
It's like the Nike commercial.
So you feel involvement in the MidEast by US is beyond the ability of US to control. A bit like an addictive impulse?

User avatar
The Cicada
Posts: 870
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 5:15 am
Location: Trumpaloka

Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by The Cicada » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:19 pm

Snowbear wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:56 pm
The Cicada wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:47 am
It's like the Nike commercial.
So you feel involvement in the MidEast by US is beyond the ability of US to control. A bit like an addictive impulse?
Not like an addictive impulse. But where else are we going to prove our weapons in real conflict? And what are they going to do, flick peas at us? Throw hummus on us? Send agents to the States to drive badly?

User avatar
Virgo
Global Moderator
Posts: 3363
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:47 am
Location: Uni-verse

Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Virgo » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:56 pm

Snowbear wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:52 pm

You feel it is an immaturity. What do you mean by that immaturity, and which countries do you feel are mature?
Human culture is in it's adolescence, metaphorically speaking. Almost all societies now are very immature. Any culture that allows firearms to the public, doesn't have good education for keeping kids out of gangs and out of prison (which should part of everyday ciricullum in schools), doesn't rehabilitate prisoners and help them to be better neighbors and members of society when they are discharged, does not have universal healthcare, any country that doesn't provide free education, etc. Those nations are immature. The only mature ones are the Scandinavian countries.

Our societies basically suck, butthe human race is still very young. Young people learn by trying and failing. For god sake, the ink on Marx's writings is pretty much still wet, we just had the American experiment, we just experienced communist societies, and so on. Our politicians don't even listen to our scientists yet. This planet is very young.

Kevin
ངོ་རང་ཐོག་ཏུ་སྤྲད། །
ཐག་གཅིག་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅད། །
གདེང་གྲོལ་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅའ། །


http://caretoclick.com/clean-the-enviro ... -phone-use

User avatar
Snowbear
Posts: 279
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:41 am

Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Snowbear » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:18 pm

The Cicada wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:19 pm
Snowbear wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:56 pm
The Cicada wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:47 am
It's like the Nike commercial.
So you feel involvement in the MidEast by US is beyond the ability of US to control. A bit like an addictive impulse?
Not like an addictive impulse. But where else are we going to prove our weapons in real conflict? And what are they going to do, flick peas at us? Throw hummus on us? Send agents to the States to drive badly?
Is it like thugs that pick on the weak because they can?

User avatar
Snowbear
Posts: 279
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:41 am

Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Snowbear » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:22 pm

Virgo wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:56 pm
Snowbear wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:52 pm

You feel it is an immaturity. What do you mean by that immaturity, and which countries do you feel are mature?
Human culture is in it's adolescence, metaphorically speaking. Almost all societies now are very immature. Any culture that allows firearms to the public, doesn't have good education for keeping kids out of gangs and out of prison (which should part of everyday ciricullum in schools), doesn't rehabilitate prisoners and help them to be better neighbors and members of society when they are discharged, does not have universal healthcare, any country that doesn't provide free education, etc. Those nations are immature. The only mature ones are the Scandinavian countries.

Our societies basically suck, butthe human race is still very young. Young people learn by trying and failing. For god sake, the ink on Marx's writings is pretty much still wet, we just had the American experiment, we just experienced communist societies, and so on. Our politicians don't even listen to our scientists yet. This planet is very young.

Kevin
Do you feel the outcome of the American experiment is moral bankruptcy?

Norwegian
Posts: 1398
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:36 pm

Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Norwegian » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:31 pm

Snowbear wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:22 pm
Virgo wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:56 pm
Snowbear wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:52 pm

You feel it is an immaturity. What do you mean by that immaturity, and which countries do you feel are mature?
Human culture is in it's adolescence, metaphorically speaking. Almost all societies now are very immature. Any culture that allows firearms to the public, doesn't have good education for keeping kids out of gangs and out of prison (which should part of everyday ciricullum in schools), doesn't rehabilitate prisoners and help them to be better neighbors and members of society when they are discharged, does not have universal healthcare, any country that doesn't provide free education, etc. Those nations are immature. The only mature ones are the Scandinavian countries.

Our societies basically suck, butthe human race is still very young. Young people learn by trying and failing. For god sake, the ink on Marx's writings is pretty much still wet, we just had the American experiment, we just experienced communist societies, and so on. Our politicians don't even listen to our scientists yet. This planet is very young.

Kevin
Do you feel the outcome of the American experiment is moral bankruptcy?
What do you feel?

User avatar
Virgo
Global Moderator
Posts: 3363
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:47 am
Location: Uni-verse

Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Virgo » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:41 pm

Snowbear wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:22 pm

Do you feel the outcome of the American experiment is moral bankruptcy?
I feel it shows that a culture that does not socialize certain things suffers from many problems. Again, I am a fan of the Nordic model.

Kevin
ངོ་རང་ཐོག་ཏུ་སྤྲད། །
ཐག་གཅིག་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅད། །
གདེང་གྲོལ་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅའ། །


http://caretoclick.com/clean-the-enviro ... -phone-use

User avatar
The Cicada
Posts: 870
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 5:15 am
Location: Trumpaloka

Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by The Cicada » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:42 pm

Snowbear wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:18 pm
Is it like thugs that pick on the weak because they can?
More like an ongoing playground fight where the biggest kid proves himself. That doesn't mean the other kids aren't little ****s themselves. Most likely they'd act exponentially worse without the bigger bully keeping them in line. I do imagine there's a growing collective addiction to the sadistic lulz, and that the biggest international detractors are basically acting out of jealousy rather than, like, some mature, civilized sense of responsibility to the species and our world.
Virgo wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:56 pm
Human culture is in it's adolescence, metaphorically speaking. Almost all societies now are very immature.
Our societies basically suck, butthe human race is still very young. Young people learn by trying and failing. For god sake, the ink on Marx's writings is pretty much still wet, we just had the American experiment, we just experienced communist societies, and so on. Our politicians don't even listen to our scientists yet. This planet is very young.
Be patient with my species, Virgo. We're only human... but we're working on that. 😁

Post Reply

Return to “News & Current Events”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Kunzang Tobgyal, Queequeg and 23 guests