rory wrote:Saying that everyone except Jews should be treated equally under the law in the Middle East is anti-semitic. Flat out. I can only say if you don't think so it's because you're not the Jew. There is a giant double standard, no one really gives a damn about the Arab refugees in Syria, or those in refugee camps in Bangladesh (they fought for West Pakistan) but the Palestinians, yeah.. .it's just another disguised form of anti-semitism, which Europe and now intellectuals in the US have taken up so that
you can see about 1/3 of French Jews are emigrating to Israel. Oh the irony....
I'm sorry, I thought the sarcasm was way to obvious...In my view and that of many others, any consistently anti-racist is an anti-zionist. Jews, Palestinians and everybody else on this planet should live together in harmony.
rory wrote:I love Nemo "the Jews left in A.D. 70" like it was a stroll, the Judaeans (and historically use this term) were defeated by the Romans and a large part of the population enslaved. And yes there was a diaspora.
Actually Judaeans were equal citizens under the law during the Roman Empire until Constantine I the first Christian emperor came to the throne. Here is a nice paragraph from Fordham University in NY (Jesuit Institution)
So basically for about 2,000 years we've been second class citizens, subject to pogroms (the Crusades), not allowed to own land, stuck in the first Ghetto (that's in Venice) hated, despised, (read the Merchant of Venice). I'm sure we have tons of self-hatred. It was only Napoleon who gave the French Jews equal rights. In the 19the century we find educated secular jews feeling that they will never be accepted as normal and so we have the start of Zionism. Theodore Herzl started it and George Eliot the novel writes about it in her novel "Daniel Deronda." The point is zionism is a reaction to a millenia of discrimination by Christians.
Welcome to the real world! Not that long ago, most people were serfs or slaves, claiming the Sun doesn't revolve against the Earth would have brought you torture and death, but that still doesn't give anyone the right to oppress others today. Jews weren't the only oppressed people. Plus, if Jews were to have outnumbered the Christians, it would have likely been the other way around. The answer to intolerance isn't more intolerance. The only reason you excuse such behavior is because of your nationalism. You identify with certain people as if this represents something real and tangible. Nationalism blinds you from seeing unity in all of mankind and thus it will never bring about lasting peace.
rory wrote:Now i don't want your sympathy, because at bottom, the lesson of the Holocaust is; that the Jew is on his own.
Now of course the Holocaust was a long time ago (60 years) & the past. But my father's family was wiped out. They were naive/stupid and stayed in Austria, a very very civilized European state. So I have a pretty good lesson and most Jewish people understand that lesson.
As an anarchist who wishes for freedom and equality of all people, I would have had it even worse. I would have been sent to concentration camps in Nazi Germany, imprisoned in the US, shot by both the white and red armies in Russia, persecuted by the Soviet Union and the former Stalinist regime of my own country, tortured to death in Franco's Spain or in Greece during the seven years and still risk being imprisoned today for undermining the state authority
whenever I participate in peaceful demonstrations against fascism, nationalism, racism, homophobia, environmental destruction, capitalism or organize with others for more effective unions and direct democracy. If there's anyone I have qualms with it is the powerful at the top of the hierarchy who turn people against each other and keep them complacent under the ideas of nationalism and finding happiness in greed, only to maintain and further the status quo.
rory wrote:Now as to the Palestinians, sure I want a 2 state solution, peace, with a Jewish state and a Palestinian state. But I won't yield on the Jewish state, because my existential question is: where will I go when I am persecuted? Muslim countries don't give Jews equal rights. Hungary and Russia are now hosting anti-semitic movements. 1/3 of the French Jews are emigrating. It's a very real problem...
Why two theocratic states (e.g. with second-class citizens in both) instead of a single secular one? Nation-states will hopefully become a thing of the past. You know, nationalism is an invention less than 300 years old with the sole goal of dividing people and brainwashing them to unconditionally support their state. Jews wishing for equal rights for everyone being labeled as self-hating isn't even worth commenting. In fact, saying that to be a real Jew one must support the persecution of certain non-Jews seems quite anti-semitic.