Simone de Beauvoir: A Nazi, a pedophile, and a misogynist

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Simone de Beauvoir: A Nazi, a pedophile, and a misogynist

Post by Vajrasvapna » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:48 pm

As the non-feminist sector of the society gets increasingly more vocal, the sector of the society that is not yet aware of the toxic nature of this ideology reacts with a set of arguments that merely reveal that the factual reality is not yet entirely known to the public.

A while ago, a group of coffee-shop feminists were trying to convince me that feminism is not as bad as I say it is and that if I just read more about feminism, I would eventually understand. As an example to support this thesis, the aforementioned feminists recommended that I read the writings of Simone de Beauvoir, the French Marxist-feminist known for her book The Second Sex. Of course, those feminists were unable to fathom that someone had taken their ideology seriously enough to read its literature and then rationally end up utterly rejecting it. As with any other cult, such a thing is inconceivable for the true believers of the sect.

In the headline of this post, a series of allegations were made toward the eminent feminist and it’s only fair for us to prove them—which is exactly what we’re going to do in the following lines.

Between 1943 and 1944, as France was under Nazi occupation, Simone de Beauvoir worked as a sound director for Radio Vichy.1 Radio Vichy was the state’s radio station in the so-called zone libre (free zone) of France, following the capitulation of the French Republic in front of Nazi Germany in 1940. We say the so-called because the Vichy regime, although theoretically neutral from a military standpoint, was in fact an active collaborator of the Nazi regime,2 and today it is an acknowledged fact by all parties involved that the institution of Radio Vichy was the de facto mouthpiece for Nazi propaganda on the airwaves in France.

De Beauvoir apologists might say that she was forced by circumstances to work there, just like many individuals now claim to have been forced to collaborate with the Securitate during the Communist regime. But de Beauvoir’s manuscripts written in that period, which were revealed afterwards, tell a different story.

Even feminist authors, such as Dr. Ingrid Galster, who have dedicated years of their lives studying Simone de Beauvoir had to admit, albeit grudgingly, that the attitude manifested by de Beauvoir as a sound director in the Nazi propaganda machine was at the very least one of subtle collaborationism,3 and the way through which she ended up working there was not following a coercion—but a perfectly conscious choice. De Beauvoir was already a member of the public workers’ union and could have chosen to work in a city hall, for instance. But she had to choose to work somewhere else other than teaching because her career in teaching was done—even though she already had the qualifications and the prestige necessary for teaching, given that she had been the second most performing doctoral student in her generation, lagging only behind her lifetime lover, Jean-Paul Sartre.4

The reason for which she could no longer teach is exactly related to pedophilia and Jean-Paul Sartre. In 1943, Simone de Beauvoir was fired for behavior leading to the corruption of a minor.5[...]

http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/si ... isogynist/
"People these days use whatever little dharma they know to augment afflictive emotion, and then engender tremendous pride and conceit over it. They teach the Dharma without taming their own minds. But as with a river rock , not even a hair’s tip of benefit penetrates the other people. Even worse, incorrigible people [are attracted] to this dharma that increases conflict. When individuals who could be tamed by the Dharma encounter such incorrigible, their desire for the sacred Dharma is lost. It is not the fault of the Dharma; it is the fault of individuals." Machik Labdron prophecy.

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Re: Simone de Beauvoir: A Nazi, a pedophile, and a misogynis

Post by DGA » Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:54 pm

"A Voice for Men" is not usually regarded as a credible source. The two obvious contradictions in your post show why: it's impossible to be simultaneously a Marxist and a Nazi, or a feminist and a misogynist. If you're going to slander someone, at least be consistent about it.

But for the sake of argument, let's consider some of the claims in this post in good faith. Specifically the ones below: do you have any plausible evidence in support of the following claims?

*SDB had any documented Nazi sympathies

*any institution by the name of "radio vichy" existed, or that SBD was involved with it, or that it was anything like a nazi propaganda machine. (Perhaps you are thinking of Radiodiffusion nationale? or the role of radio paris as a nazi mouthpiece?)

*SBD engaged in any pedophilic acts

for starters

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Re: Simone de Beauvoir: A Nazi, a pedophile, and a misogynis

Post by Dan74 » Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:00 pm

On wiki, I read this:
In 1943, de Beauvoir was suspended from her teaching job, due to an accusation that she had, in 1939, seduced her 17-year-old lycee pupil Nathalie Sorokine.[18] Sorokine's parents laid formal charges against de Beauvoir for abducting a minor and as a result she had her licence to teach in France permanently revoked.[19] She and Jean-Paul Sartre developed a pattern, which they called the “trio,” in which de Beauvoir would seduce her students and then pass them on to Sartre. Both he and she later regretted what they viewed as their responsibility for psychological damage to at least one of these girls.[20]
She died in 1986 and despite this awful behaviour in her younger days (which she later regretted), there's a lot that she wrote that is worth listening to. She was no ball-busting feminist, but a very intelligent observer of culture and human beings, IMO.

But yes, it's good to be aware of these dark stains on her past, thanks for bringing this to my attention. Not sure about the Nazi and the misogynist - could find no convincing evidence of that. Then again, 'he has not lived, has not erred' and I suspect the same goes for 'she'.

I also don't think she held herself high as an ethical ideal or a spiritual teacher. I'd not approach a teacher with such a record, though people can and do change radically, sometimes. But as a philosopher and author, a stain on the past is not enough for me to ignore the person's entire oeuvre. But maybe it's different for you.

Like Jikan above, I'd also like you to back up what you've said.

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Re: Simone de Beauvoir: A Nazi, a pedophile, and a misogynis

Post by treehuggingoctopus » Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:52 pm

The truth issue aside (though I happen to 100% agree with Jikan here), I can't help but wonder why would any of that be interesting to a specifically Buddhist audience.
As far as I know, SDB had no connection with the Dharma whatsoever?

Sure enough, sometimes very important ugly facts come to light and it is essential that they be discussed in public. But is any of it - again, supposing it is true - that important? Honestly, how many people even know who SDB was? And for those who have read and admired her, would it really matter that she seduced her students (if she really did - sometimes it is pretty difficult to say who seduces whom in the classroom, I'm afraid) to pass them on to JPS?

For me it doesn't matter in the least. When not following a Dharma, sentient beings necessarily suffer and cause suffering to others. That doesn't mean that they cannot act towards alleviating the suffering of others - often at the very same time.

Also, the thread's title is deeply misleading. A question mark would help a lot, to begin with, but the p-word is really out of place. After wiki:
Pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children, generally age 11 years or younger. As a medical diagnosis, specific criteria for the disorder extends the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13.
. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

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Re: Simone de Beauvoir: A Nazi, a pedophile, and a misogynis

Post by DGA » Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:49 pm

To clarify my earlier post:

There are plenty of reasons to criticize SDB, but has OP has pointed out any of them?

Similarly, there are plenty of grounds on which to criticize many strands of feminist thought and practice (ask any feminist). The OP has pointed out zero of these.
Last edited by DGA on Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: corrected punctuation

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Re: Simone de Beauvoir: A Nazi, a pedophile, and a misogynis

Post by greentara » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:47 am

I never got the impression that De Beauvoir was anti semetic but having affairs with young vulnerable girls and then passing them onto Sartre is something I have read about before. It appears the need to please and pleasure Jean Paul Sartre a man she adored perhaps played havoc with her sense of what was right.

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Re: Simone de Beauvoir: A Nazi, a pedophile, and a misogynis

Post by SeekerNo1000003 » Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:15 pm

Dan74 wrote: Like Jikan above, I'd also like you to back up what you've said.
Hmmmm....Dear Dan74 and Jikan -- you do realize that the entire text was a quote? No opinion was expressed in the original post. Am I missing something?

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Re: Simone de Beauvoir: A Nazi, a pedophile, and a misogynis

Post by Dan74 » Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:48 pm

Yes, but quoting an article on a fairly controversial site, is not the same as backing up strong claims, is it?

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Re: Simone de Beauvoir: A Nazi, a pedophile, and a misogynis

Post by SeekerNo1000003 » Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:42 pm

Dan74 wrote:Yes, but quoting an article on a fairly controversial site, is not the same as backing up strong claims, is it?
It's not. But why do you say that? Did the author of the post use the quote in response to a claim s/he earlier made? This does not appear to be the case.

I was just surprised that someone was being asked if they could back up the claims they did not really make...(the author may not agree with the text for example; why would they be asked to give support to it?)

It is not clear what was the intention of the post in the first place. I would agree that given the controversy of the topic it would be helpful to add a comment clarifying the point of post. But that's a separate issue.

Maybe I misunderstood your comment? [is there an emoticon for scratching one's (my) head? ;)]

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Re: Simone de Beauvoir: A Nazi, a pedophile, and a misogynis

Post by Dan74 » Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:51 pm

SeekerNo1000003 wrote: It is not clear what was the intention of the post in the first place. I would agree that given the controversy of the topic it would be helpful to add a comment clarifying the point of post. But that's a separate issue.
Yep, that was my reaction pretty much.

I think when someone posts a character assassination like this, they better be sure it is true.

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Re: Simone de Beauvoir: A Nazi, a pedophile, and a misogynis

Post by Vajrasvapna » Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:21 pm

Jikan wrote:"A Voice for Men" is not usually regarded as a credible source.

Why?
The two obvious contradictions in your post show why: it's impossible to be simultaneously a Marxist and a Nazi, or a feminist and a misogynist. If you're going to slander someone, at least be consistent about it.

In fact, it is possible for someone to defend a position while their actions deny it.
But for the sake of argument, let's consider some of the claims in this post in good faith. Specifically the ones below: do you have any plausible evidence in support of the following claims?
The text offers various sources, you could offer arguments against the text or you are not able to argue?
treehuggingoctopus wrote:The truth issue aside (though I happen to 100% agree with Jikan here), I can't help but wonder why would any of that be interesting to a specifically Buddhist audience.
As far as I know, SDB had no connection with the Dharma whatsoever?
Since many Buddhist are supporting the cause of Marxist feminism, that is, the idea that women are victims of imaginary patriarchy, then it makes much sense to share the article.
Sure enough, sometimes very important ugly facts come to light and it is essential that they be discussed in public. But is any of it - again, supposing it is true - that important? Honestly, how many people even know who SDB was? And for those who have read and admired her, would it really matter that she seduced her students (if she really did - sometimes it is pretty difficult to say who seduces whom in the classroom, I'm afraid) to pass them on to JPS?
But if it were a man, people would be raising the flag of abuse, as some female students of Tibetan masters.
Also, the thread's title is deeply misleading. A question mark would help a lot, to begin with, but the p-word is really out of place. After wiki:
Pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children, generally age 11 years or younger. As a medical diagnosis, specific criteria for the disorder extends the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13.
She supports the legalization of pedophilia in France and there is evidence of pedophilia by her.

I intend to share the article was to encourage a critical view of female victimization advocated by feminists and started by Simone that became a dogma in Western society and the basis for public policy that exclude men. Each person can judge the text and offer a critique of. I included some videos on the subject:
phpBB [video]

phpBB [video]

phpBB [video]
"People these days use whatever little dharma they know to augment afflictive emotion, and then engender tremendous pride and conceit over it. They teach the Dharma without taming their own minds. But as with a river rock , not even a hair’s tip of benefit penetrates the other people. Even worse, incorrigible people [are attracted] to this dharma that increases conflict. When individuals who could be tamed by the Dharma encounter such incorrigible, their desire for the sacred Dharma is lost. It is not the fault of the Dharma; it is the fault of individuals." Machik Labdron prophecy.

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Re: Simone de Beauvoir: A Nazi, a pedophile, and a misogynis

Post by Grigoris » Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:33 pm

Vajrasvapna wrote:Since many Buddhist are supporting the cause of Marxist feminism, that is, the idea that women are victims of imaginary patriarchy, then it makes much sense to share the article.
Many Buddhists support the practice of eating imaginary (ie lacking essential tastiness) tasty food. Got any good recipes to share? :tongue:

Would you consider views on Semitic people drawn from a neo-Nazi site as valid opinion? So why would you consider views on feminists from an anti-feminist (even misogynist) site valid opinion?
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Re: Simone de Beauvoir: A Nazi, a pedophile, and a misogynis

Post by Vajrasvapna » Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:24 pm

Sherab Dorje wrote:
Vajrasvapna wrote:Since many Buddhist are supporting the cause of Marxist feminism, that is, the idea that women are victims of imaginary patriarchy, then it makes much sense to share the article.
Many Buddhists support the practice of eating imaginary (ie lacking essential tastiness) tasty food. Got any good recipes to share? :tongue:
The food does not have self-existence, but it exists dependently. In addition, the emptiness is only conceptual, Buddhism does not deny the physical aspect of the phenomenon.

Pulmonary disease of this miners is also imaginary, but they had no choice because they needed to support their wives and children, a male privilege:
Image
Would you consider views on Semitic people drawn from a neo-Nazi site as valid opinion?
But this site would have a page dedicated to the people of Semitic descent or Judaism followers to express their opinions? AVM has a page for women: Women's Voice
So why would you consider views on feminists from an anti-feminist (even misogynist) site valid opinion?
It is not natural that critiques of feminism come from an anti-feminism website? You could offer me arguments for what reason no one can criticize feminism, especially its most radical form? Two of the videos posted by me are from women, including one who suffered death threats and had his dog killed by feminists, because she had stated that most women with aggressive partner were as aggressive like them. Could offer me an article from the site with misogynist content?
"People these days use whatever little dharma they know to augment afflictive emotion, and then engender tremendous pride and conceit over it. They teach the Dharma without taming their own minds. But as with a river rock , not even a hair’s tip of benefit penetrates the other people. Even worse, incorrigible people [are attracted] to this dharma that increases conflict. When individuals who could be tamed by the Dharma encounter such incorrigible, their desire for the sacred Dharma is lost. It is not the fault of the Dharma; it is the fault of individuals." Machik Labdron prophecy.

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Re: Simone de Beauvoir: A Nazi, a pedophile, and a misogynis

Post by Paul » Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:31 pm

Locked for the moment.
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