Combatting extremism

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Combatting extremism

Post by Admin_PC » Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:43 am

Moderator note:
Removed initial thread posts as they violated the Terms of Service regarding other religions.
I'm going to leave this thread here if anybody would like to discuss Buddhist methods for combating extremism.
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Re: Combatting extremism

Post by Dan74 » Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:23 am

It is clear that one thing we definitely should do is reach out more to our fellow citizens who profess Islam, rather than vilify them. We are one country, one humanity. We have to make sure that those who seek to divide us will not succeed. This is not naive and doesn't mean we stop our security and police from doing their work. It means that in our communities, our neighbourhoods, we promote tolerance and good-will, not prejudice and hatred. The IS has killed many more Muslims than all other people put together. Let this tragedy bring us closer, not tear out communities asunder.

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Re: Combatting extremism

Post by dharmagoat » Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:26 am

Dan74 wrote:It is clear that one thing we definitely should do is reach out more to our fellow citizens who profess Islam, rather than vilify them. We are one country, one humanity. We have to make sure that those who seek to divide us will not succeed. This is not naive and doesn't mean we stop our security and police from doing their work. It means that in our communities, our neighbourhoods, we promote tolerance and good-will, not prejudice and hatred. The IS has killed many more Muslims than all other people put together. Let this tragedy bring us closer, not tear out communities asunder.
Very well said.

We need to make it clear that religion is not the issue.

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Re: Combatting extremism

Post by gloriasteinem » Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:42 am

dharmagoat wrote:
Dan74 wrote:It is clear that one thing we definitely should do is reach out more to our fellow citizens who profess Islam, rather than vilify them. We are one country, one humanity. We have to make sure that those who seek to divide us will not succeed. This is not naive and doesn't mean we stop our security and police from doing their work. It means that in our communities, our neighbourhoods, we promote tolerance and good-will, not prejudice and hatred. The IS has killed many more Muslims than all other people put together. Let this tragedy bring us closer, not tear out communities asunder.
Very well said.

We need to make it clear that religion is not the issue.
How? Are you going to edit the Qoran?

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A list of Quran hate quotes

From JihadWatch (September 14) — Does the Quran teach hate? Let’s see:

2:65 Allah transforms disobedient Jews into apes

“And well you know there were those among you [Jews] that transgressed the Sabbath, and We said to them, ‘Be you apes, miserably slinking!’

2:89 Unbelievers, particularly Jews, are accursed

“When there came to them [Jews] a Book from Allah, confirming what was with them — and they aforetimes prayed for victory over the unbelievers — when there came to them that they recognized, they disbelieved in it; and the curse of Allah is on the unbelievers.

2:191-193 Fight and kill unbelievers until “religion is Allah’s,” i.e. Islamic law rules all societies

“And slay them wherever you come upon them, and expel them from where they expelled you; persecution is more grievous than slaying. But fight them not by the Holy Mosque until they should fight you there; then, if they fight you, slay them — such is the recompense of unbelievers, but if they give over, surely Allah is All-forgiving, All-compassionate. Fight them, till there is no persecution and the religion is Allah’s; then if they give over, there shall be no enmity save for evildoers.”

3:28 Don’t take unbelievers as friends and allies, unless it is for “fear of them,” i.e. deceptively for protection of oneself or of Islam

“Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends, rather than the believers — for whoso does that belongs not to Allah in anything — unless you have a fear of them. Allah warns you that You beware of Him, and unto Allah is the homecoming.”

3:110-112 Muslims are the best of people, Jews have earned Allah’s anger

“You are the best nation ever brought forth to men, bidding to honour, and forbidding dishonour, and believing in Allah. Had the People of the Book believed, it were better for them; some of them are believers, but the most of them are ungodly. They will not harm you, except a little hurt; and if they fight with you, they will turn on you their backs; then they will not be helped. Abasement shall be pitched on them, wherever they are come upon, except they be in a bond of Allah, and a bond of the people; they will be laden with the burden of Allah’s anger, and poverty shall be pitched on them; that, because they disbelieved in Allah’s signs, and slew the Prophets without right; that, for that they acted rebelliously and were transgressors.”

3:151 Allah will cast terror into the unbelievers’ hearts

“We will cast into the hearts of the unbelievers terror, for that they have associated with Allah that for which He sent down never authority; their lodging shall be the Fire; evil is the lodging of the evildoers.”

3:181 Jews are bound for hell

“Allah has heard the saying of those who said, ‘Surely Allah is poor, and we are rich.’ We shall write down what they have said, and their slaying the Prophets without right, and We shall say, ‘Taste the chastisement of the burning.’”

4:34 Beat disobedient women

“Men are the managers of the affairs of women for that Allah has preferred in bounty one of them over another, and for that they have expended of their property. Righteous women are therefore obedient, guarding the secret for Allah’s guarding. And those you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them. If they then obey you, look not for any way against them; Allah is All-high, All-great.”

4:160 Jews do evil, turn people away from Allah

“And for the evildoing of those of Jewry, We have forbidden them certain good things that were permitted to them, and for their barring from Allah’s way many…”

5:33 Crucify or amputate the hands and feet of those who make war against Allah and Muhammad

“This is the recompense of those who fight against Allah and His Messenger, and hasten about the earth, to do corruption there: they shall be slaughtered, or crucified, or their hands and feet shall alternately be struck off; or they shall be banished from the land. That is a degradation for them in this world; and in the world to come awaits them a mighty chastisement.”

5:41 Jews listen to falsehood and pervert the meaning of their Scriptures

“O Messenger, let them not grieve thee that vie with one another in unbelief, such men as say with their mouths ‘We believe’ but their hearts believe not; and the Jews who listen to falsehood, listen to other folk, who have not come to thee, perverting words from their meanings, saying, ‘If you are given this, then take it; if you are not given it, beware!’ Whomsoever Allah desires to try, thou canst not avail him anything with Allah. Those are they whose hearts Allah desired not to purify; for them is degradation in this world; and in the world to come awaits them a mighty chastisement.”

5:51 Don’t take Jews and Christians as friends and allies

“O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Whoso of you makes them his friends is one of them. Allah guides not the people of the evildoers.”

5:59-60 Jews cursed, made into apes and swine

“Say: ‘People of the Book, do you blame us for any other cause than that we believe in Allah, and what has been sent down to us, and what was sent down before, and that most of you are ungodly?’ Say: ‘Shall I tell you of a recompense with Allah, worse than that? Whomsoever Allah has cursed, and with whom He is wroth, and made some of them apes and swine, and worshippers of idols — they are worse situated, and have gone further astray from the right way.’”

5:64 Jews accursed

“The Jews have said, ‘Allah’s hand is fettered.’ Fettered are their hands, and they are cursed for what they have said. Nay, but His hands are outspread; He expends how He will. And what has been sent down to thee from thy Lord will surely increase many of them in insolence and unbelief; and We have cast between them enmity and hatred, till the Day of Resurrection. As often as they light a fire for war, Allah will extinguish it. They hasten about the earth, to do corruption there; and Allah loves not the workers of corruption.”

5:72 Christians are unbelievers

“They are unbelievers who say, ‘Allah is the Messiah, Mary’s son.’ For the Messiah said, ‘Children of Israel, serve God, my Lord and your Lord. Verily whoso associates with Allah anything, Allah shall prohibit him entrance to Paradise, and his refuge shall be the Fire; and wrongdoers shall have no helpers.’”

5:82 Jews most hostile to the Muslims

“Thou wilt surely find the most hostile of men to the believers are the Jews and the idolaters; and thou wilt surely find the nearest of them in love to the believers are those who say ‘We are Christians’; that, because some of them are priests and monks, and they wax not proud.”

6:91 Jews deny, conceal divine revelations

“They measured not Allah with His true measure when they said, ‘Allah has not sent down aught on any mortal.’ Say: ‘Who sent down the Book that Moses brought as a light and a guidance to men? You put it into parchments, revealing them, and hiding much; and you were taught that you knew not, you and your fathers.’ Say: ‘Allah.’ Then leave them alone, playing their game of plunging.”

6:146 Jews insolent

“And to those of Jewry We have forbidden every beast with claws; and of oxen and sheep We have forbidden them the fat of them, save what their backs carry, or their entrails, or what is mingled with bone; that We recompensed them for their insolence; surely We speak truly.”

7:166 Jews are apes

“And when they [Jews] turned in disdain from that forbidding We said to them, ‘Be you apes, miserably slinking!’”

8:12 Allah will terrorize unbelievers; Muslims should behead them

“When thy Lord was revealing to the angels, ‘I am with you; so confirm the believers. I shall cast into the unbelievers’ hearts terror; so smite above the necks, and smite every finger of them!’”

8:39 Fight unbelievers until Islam reigns supreme

“Fight them, till there is no persecution and the religion is Allah’s entirely; then if they give over, surely Allah sees the things they do.”

8:60 Make war against enemies of Allah

“Make ready for them whatever force and strings of horses you can, to terrify thereby the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others besides them that you know not; Allah knows them. And whatsoever you expend in the way of Allah shall be repaid you in full; you will not be wronged.”

9:5 Slay the idolaters

“Then, when the sacred months are drawn away, slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them, and confine them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent, and perform the prayer, and pay the alms, then let them go their way; Allah is All-forgiving, All-compassionate.”

9:28 Idolaters unclean

“O believers, the idolaters are indeed unclean; so let them not come near the Holy Mosque after this year of theirs. If you fear poverty, Allah shall surely enrich you of His bounty, if He will; Allah is All-knowing; All-wise.”

9:29 Fight and subjugate the Jews and Christians

“Fight those who believe not in Allah and the Last Day and do not forbid what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden — such men as practise not the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book — until they pay the tribute out of hand and have been humbled.”

9:30 Jews and Christians assailed by Allah

“The Jews say, ‘Ezra is the Son of Allah’; the Christians say, ‘The Messiah is the Son of Allah.’ That is the utterance of their mouths, conforming with the unbelievers before them. Allah assail them! How they are perverted!”

9:31 Jews and Christians have taken their clergy and holy men as lords

“They have taken their rabbis and their monks as lords apart from Allah, and the Messiah, Mary’s son — and they were commanded to serve but One Allah; there is no god but He; glory be to Him, above that they associate.”

9:73 Be harsh with unbelievers

“O Prophet, struggle with the unbelievers and hypocrites, and be thou harsh with them; their refuge is Gehenna — an evil homecoming!”

9:111 Paradise guaranteed to those who kill and are killed for Allah

“Allah has bought from the believers their selves and their possessions against the gift of Paradise; they fight in the way of Allah; they kill, and are killed; that is a promise binding upon Allah in the Torah, and the Gospel, and the Koran; and who fulfils his covenant truer than Allah? So rejoice in the bargain you have made with Him; that is the mighty triumph.”

9:123 Fight the unbelievers, be harsh with them

“O believers, fight the unbelievers who are near to you; and let them find in you a harshness; and know that Allah is with the godfearing.”

47:4 Behead and slaughter the unbelievers; take others captive

“When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then, when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds; then set them free, either by grace or ransom, till the war lays down its loads. So it shall be; and if Allah had willed, He would have avenged Himself upon them; but that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will not send their works astray.”

48:29 Be merciful to believers, not unbelievers

“Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those who are with him are hard against the unbelievers, merciful one to another.”

62:6 Jews should long for death

“Say: ‘You of Jewry, if you assert that you are the friends of Allah, apart from other men, then do you long for death, if you speak truly.’”

98:6 Unbelievers are the worst of creatures

“The unbelievers of the People of the Book and the idolaters shall be in the Fire of Gehenna, therein dwelling forever; those are the worst of creatures.
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Re: Combatting extremism

Post by pothigai » Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:30 am

Many of the quotes that you cite are quite obviously out of context within the Qur'an; many of them describe actual events in the life of Muhammad and don't make sense outside of this context. Furthermore, they are also outside of the context of the traditions of Islamic scholarship which are the basis of mainstream Islam.

If you want to actually understand how these things have been interpreted over the centuries then I would suggest that you actually look at legitimate sources on the matter, rather than websites which clearly have an agenda of presenting Islam in a negative light.
ہستی اپنی حباب کی سی ہے
یہ نمائش سراب کی سی ہے

hasti apni habaab ki si hai
yeh numaaish saraab ki si hai

Like a bubble is your existence
This display is like an illusion

- Mir Taqi Mir (1725-1810)

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Re: Combatting extremism

Post by treehuggingoctopus » Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:34 am

Well said, pothigai.

A recent Karen Armstrong's piece that might of use here:
http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affai ... -terrorism
. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

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Dan74
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Re: Combatting extremism

Post by Dan74 » Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:58 am

The Koran, like the Torah (Old Testament) is full of all sorts of very different statements. Over the centuries, both Jews and Muslims did not live by every verse of their scriptures but were a lot more pragmatic. I think we should be careful not to forget history when considering Islam, both as context for the verses and as a record of how Muslims actually lived.

That said, of course I wish that all holy books were purged of hateful verses condoning violence, but neither Gloria nor me can do it.

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Re: Combatting extremism

Post by dharmagoat » Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:18 am

gloriasteinem wrote:
dharmagoat wrote:We need to make it clear that religion is not the issue.
How?
By seeing beyond religious differences.

Extremism uses religion as a front. Religious conflict is their justification. Let's not take the bait.

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Re: Combatting extremism

Post by gloriasteinem » Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:47 am

pothigai wrote:Many of the quotes that you cite are quite obviously out of context within the Qur'an; many of them describe actual events in the life of Muhammad and don't make sense outside of this context. Furthermore, they are also outside of the context of the traditions of Islamic scholarship which are the basis of mainstream Islam.

If you want to actually understand how these things have been interpreted over the centuries then I would suggest that you actually look at legitimate sources on the matter, rather than websites which clearly have an agenda of presenting Islam in a negative light.
Some modern-day scholars are more candid than others. One of the most respected Sunni theologians is al-Qaradawi, who justifies terror attacks against Western targets by noting that there is no such thing as a civilian population in a time of war:"It has been determined by Islamic law that the blood and property of people of Dar Al—Harb [ie. non-Muslim people who resist Islamic conquest] is not protected... In modern war, all of society, with all its classes and ethnic groups, is mobilized to participate in the war, to aid its continuation, and to provide it with the material and human fuel required for it to assure the victory of the state fighting its enemies. Every citizen in society must take upon himself a role in the effort to provide for the battle. The entire domestic front, including professionals, laborers, and industrialists, stands behind the fighting army, even if it does not bear arms."

This is from thereligionofpeace.com
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Re: Combatting extremism

Post by pothigai » Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:01 am

gloriasteinem wrote:
pothigai wrote:Many of the quotes that you cite are quite obviously out of context within the Qur'an; many of them describe actual events in the life of Muhammad and don't make sense outside of this context. Furthermore, they are also outside of the context of the traditions of Islamic scholarship which are the basis of mainstream Islam.

If you want to actually understand how these things have been interpreted over the centuries then I would suggest that you actually look at legitimate sources on the matter, rather than websites which clearly have an agenda of presenting Islam in a negative light.
Some modern-day scholars are more candid than others. One of the most respected Sunni theologians is al-Qaradawi, who justifies terror attacks against Western targets by noting that there is no such thing as a civilian population in a time of war:"It has been determined by Islamic law that the blood and property of people of Dar Al—Harb [ie. non-Muslim people who resist Islamic conquest] is not protected... In modern war, all of society, with all its classes and ethnic groups, is mobilized to participate in the war, to aid its continuation, and to provide it with the material and human fuel required for it to assure the victory of the state fighting its enemies. Every citizen in society must take upon himself a role in the effort to provide for the battle. The entire domestic front, including professionals, laborers, and industrialists, stands behind the fighting army, even if it does not bear arms."

This is from thereligionofpeace.com
It seems that his views are widely criticised throughout the Islamic world.

Perhaps you should look at sources that do not have an obvious agenda of presenting Islam in a negative light.
ہستی اپنی حباب کی سی ہے
یہ نمائش سراب کی سی ہے

hasti apni habaab ki si hai
yeh numaaish saraab ki si hai

Like a bubble is your existence
This display is like an illusion

- Mir Taqi Mir (1725-1810)

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Re: Combatting extremism

Post by gloriasteinem » Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:36 am

Dan74 wrote:The Koran, like the Torah (Old Testament) is full of all sorts of very different statements. Over the centuries, both Jews and Muslims did not live by every verse of their scriptures but were a lot more pragmatic. I think we should be careful not to forget history when considering Islam, both as context for the verses and as a record of how Muslims actually lived.

That said, of course I wish that all holy books were purged of hateful verses condoning violence, but neither Gloria nor me can do it.
Oh? So now we have to burn all Holly books because Quran readers don't have to be personally offended?

Let's see how they eat:

Image

It's not vegetarian, it's not baked in the back kitchen, it's not prepared previously, it's not like hot dog which only has meat but does not look rough, it's not previously prepared and simply baked, the doner is sliced in front of customer, displayed and baked at the sight of it unlike most modern cooking that wants to minimise cruelty in food preparation and sale.

Very much away from ahimsa.
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Re: Combatting extremism

Post by muni » Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:02 pm

Well, we actually can only change the world ourselves, so start by ourselves. When we want to be free, we see the problem in our own mind, that is the only way to change. Then judgement can be replaced by compassion.
I have met many friendly Muslims. One woman I do not forget, I had lost my way ( which I can do very well) and she was sitting knitting something long, no idea what but it was long. She listened to me, jumped directly up, took my hand and said come, I will bring you there. She brought me right at the place I needed to be. I thanked happily and she said something like English people can say so beautiful: “the pleasure is mine”. And that is already insight! Thank you dear sister! Last time I was sitting with a man from Afghanistan on the train and he started to talk, he told me how he and his family had to live and how children were living in fear in his country, this already so many years, he said extremism is not Islam, Islam is love. We had a long train trip so later on the talk became lighter and we were chattering and giggling together.

Hanging a label on our nose with Buddhist, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh… is not bringing the change in ourselves, without that change, we are only putting clothes on our protected confusion. We should be aware of ourselves as our dividing mind, which likes to put Buddhists here and others there cannot comprehend the meaning of the Buddha. And of course to combat our dividing mind goes much easier when we get very sweet selfbaked cookies like a Muslim friend gave me each year, and this is asking no particular practice other than yummy... But it goes as well ( remaining aware) by not being led by own ego. This can stop our suffering and harm to others. What more we can do then at least try to be an example? I don't know.

I am not sure but Mohammed or Buddha or Jesus did not write scripts. Or?
Buddha looked in own mind, he didn’t start to judge Mara. If he did so, then we have not to purify ourselves. Then he could be teaching: how we remain in samsara…we should not have to listen, we already are well trained.

Kabir, was an example. Kabir wasn’t a religion, his words rolled out of insight, even he used words for people to understand him right there. His poems, I guess, are not so much for us to understand... The only value words have: is to guide to freedom, never to divide.

Student, tell me, what is God?
He is the breath inside the breath.
http://www.poemhunter.com/kabir/
By seeing beyond religious differences.
:bow:
“ Only the development of compassion and understanding for others can bring us the tranquility and happiness we all seek. ”
H H Dalai Lama

"Relax." nirvana-samsara do not stray from spaciousness.

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Re: Combatting extremism

Post by MiphamFan » Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:27 pm

dharmagoat wrote:
Dan74 wrote:It is clear that one thing we definitely should do is reach out more to our fellow citizens who profess Islam, rather than vilify them. We are one country, one humanity. We have to make sure that those who seek to divide us will not succeed. This is not naive and doesn't mean we stop our security and police from doing their work. It means that in our communities, our neighbourhoods, we promote tolerance and good-will, not prejudice and hatred. The IS has killed many more Muslims than all other people put together. Let this tragedy bring us closer, not tear out communities asunder.
Very well said.

We need to make it clear that religion is not the issue.
Religion is very much the issue. It is due to backing of extremist ideologies by Saudi money.

I never said all Muslims are responsible, I only mentioned Salafis.

Salafism delenda est.

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Re: Combatting extremism

Post by kirtu » Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:49 pm

Dan74 wrote: That said, of course I wish that all holy books were purged of hateful verses condoning violence, but neither Gloria nor me can do it.
And then we are left with the Orange Catholic Bible (Herbert, Dune) and that didn't work out either.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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Re: Combatting extremism

Post by kirtu » Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:56 pm

gloriasteinem wrote: Let's see how they eat:

Image

It's not vegetarian, it's not baked in the back kitchen, it's not prepared previously, it's not like hot dog which only has meat but does not look rough, it's not previously prepared and simply baked, the doner is sliced in front of customer, displayed and baked at the sight of it unlike most modern cooking that wants to minimise cruelty in food preparation and sale.

Very much away from ahimsa.
Aside from not being vegetarian (and frankly there is not that much veg cuisine in Europe relatively speaking) what is the issue? How does donner sliced in front of you contribute to cruelty?

How does this significantly differ from the roasted chicken endlessly on the rotisseries in the showcase windows in Wienerwald for example?

Besides this is also pretty much served this way in Greece (it can be found at least).

I can't find a video of exactly what I'm looking for but you can walk down any street in the center of any German city and find restaurants with roasted chicken grilling on the menu. They are often in the window showcases grilling to entice you inside. This video is of grilled ox for a festival.
phpBB [video]


Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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Re: Combatting extremism

Post by gloriasteinem » Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:09 pm

You don't grill ox in the center of town daily, plus with chicken you don't have the butcher constantly slicing it in front of you, and honestly, I do have doubts about people who buy such chicken but if you stay longed in front of doner shop, you'll see a lot of cruel faces, I don't even count the muslims, we are talking about towns were people don't need to hunt anymore. And the man of the picture totally don't look like a smiling McDonalds employee, wonder why?
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Re: Combatting extremism

Post by pothigai » Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:30 pm

gloriasteinem wrote:You don't grill ox in the center of town daily, plus with chicken you don't have the butcher constantly slicing it in front of you, and honestly, I do have doubts about people who buy such chicken but if you stay longed in front of doner shop, you'll see a lot of cruel faces, I don't even count the muslims, we are talking about towns were people don't need to hunt anymore. And the man of the picture totally don't look like a smiling McDonalds employee, wonder why?
No, I see the same people as the ones at any other fast food shop.

Frankly, this is getting ridiculous. I don't get what your point is, are you trying to say that the doner kebab somehow exemplifies cruelty?
ہستی اپنی حباب کی سی ہے
یہ نمائش سراب کی سی ہے

hasti apni habaab ki si hai
yeh numaaish saraab ki si hai

Like a bubble is your existence
This display is like an illusion

- Mir Taqi Mir (1725-1810)

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Re: Combatting extremism

Post by kirtu » Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:51 pm

gloriasteinem wrote:You don't grill ox in the center of town daily, plus with chicken you don't have the butcher constantly slicing it in front of you, and honestly, I do have doubts about people who buy such chicken but if you stay longed in front of doner shop, you'll see a lot of cruel faces, I don't even count the muslims, we are talking about towns were people don't need to hunt anymore. And the man of the picture totally don't look like a smiling McDonalds employee, wonder why?
I think you are seeing things that may not be there. I have eaten lots of doner when I was living in Germany. People are forced to smile at McDonalds. At the places I went to to get doner, the servers were as smiley as the rest of the population.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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Ayu
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Re: Combatting extremism

Post by Ayu » Sat Nov 21, 2015 4:30 pm

I never saw a smiling McDonald's employee - but maybe I don't eat there often enough.
I have decided to stick with love.
Hate is too great a burden to bear.
- Martin Luther King, Jr. -

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Fa Dao
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Re: Combatting extremism

Post by Fa Dao » Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:14 pm

I have looked at all of the quotes in the koran that Gloria posted. It is intellectually disingenuous to say that they are taken out of context if one hasn't actually read them and the lines before and after them. The same goes for saying that ISIS is not really representing islam. Those in ISIS take those quotes to heart and try to live by them, and therein lies the problem. I think it is also misleading and irrelevant to bring up the horrific shit found in the old testament..why? simply because you don't have large groups of people that take it seriously and try to live by it and impose it on other people. So, the entire concept of "combating extremism" is not truly relevant. They are not "extremists" if they are following the koran to the letter. I think it would be more accurate to say "combating totalitarian ideologies". This is in no way saying that all muslims are bad, evil etc. In fact the majority are probably quite peaceful and just want to have a good life like everyone else. Islam is an ideology, not a race. It does not make one racist or islamaphobic to bring to the discussion table the fact that there is a considerable amount of totalitarian ideological writings in the koran that are in direct conflict with basic human rights. There are approximately 1.5 billion muslims in the world today. An extremely conservative estimate of 1% actually tries to follow the koran to the letter and are intent upon imposing it on the entire planet. Do the math..thats 15 million people bent upon forcefully and violently spreading islam over the entire planet. Until the world acknowledges the threat that this poses, this ideology will continue to spread and grow...hopefully the world wakes up before its too late.....
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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