Hacker group Anonymous

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smcj
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Re: Hacker group Anonymous

Post by smcj » Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:50 am

I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.

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Queen Elizabeth II
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Re: Hacker group Anonymous

Post by Queen Elizabeth II » Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:35 am

pothigai wrote:I don't think a video from a small Youtube channel that seems to primarily publish Islamophobic and anti-migrant material is really compelling evidence for this.
The video was made by the highly regarded Spiegel TV and is to be found all over the place. The link I gave just happens to be first channel that showed up in my search.
  • The [Spiegel] magazine's influence is based on two pillars; firstly the moral authority established by investigative journalism since the early years and proven alive by several impressive scoops during the 1980s; secondly the economic power of the prolific Spiegel publishing house. Since 1988, it has produced the TV programme Spiegel TV, and further diversified during the 1990s.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Spiegel

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Dan74
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Re: Hacker group Anonymous

Post by Dan74 » Sun Nov 29, 2015 11:58 am

I think it's telling how so many threads devolve into Islam bashing and should give pause for us to reflect.

tingdzin
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Re: Hacker group Anonymous

Post by tingdzin » Sun Nov 29, 2015 12:17 pm

Well, I know Der Spiegel was at least formerly a reputable magazine. I'd still like to see it in print, though, even in German if necessary.

SeeLion
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Re: Hacker group Anonymous

Post by SeeLion » Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:53 pm

Interesting, I saw another video, and I am not sure if I got it right, but some immigrant kids were saying something along these lines: if the dutch people don't convert to Islam, ISIS will come and kill us all (maybe implying that they would become caught in the crossfire).
(the interview was being conducted in Holland)

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kirtu
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Re: Hacker group Anonymous

Post by kirtu » Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:12 pm

SeeLion wrote:Interesting, I saw another video, and I am not sure if I got it right, but some immigrant kids were saying something along these lines: if the dutch people don't convert to Islam, ISIS will come and kill us all (maybe implying that they would become caught in the crossfire). (the interview was being conducted in Holland)
Please provide the url.

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SeeLion
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Re: Hacker group Anonymous

Post by SeeLion » Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:58 pm

Thought I lost it, but was able to find it again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pky3WeM4tI

It's English subtitles, maybe if somebody understands Dutch ... Because if you read the subtitle word for word, it doesn't make sense (it's towards the end).

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Re: Hacker group Anonymous

Post by DGA » Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:42 pm

SeeLion wrote:Interesting, I saw another video, and I am not sure if I got it right, but some immigrant kids were saying something along these lines: if the dutch people don't convert to Islam, ISIS will come and kill us all (maybe implying that they would become caught in the crossfire).
(the interview was being conducted in Holland)
Equally strong argument: I once met some immigrant kids in Oregon who told me that if I didn't buy girl scout cookies from them, I'd have a hard time with my wife that night. Thin mints for a happy marriage, they told me--everyone needs to try it, or else divorce for everyone.

So you know that's true.

Here's the problem: hasty generalization, or generalization from the particular.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasty_generalization

PS kids say all kinds of dumb things to threaten each other.
Last edited by DGA on Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hacker group Anonymous

Post by DGA » Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:48 pm

back to Anonymous for a moment:

They did good work bringing problems with Scientology that were already well known online but not in the news to a broader audience. Since then, Scientology has been exposed for what it is, a means to separate people from their money (and along the way their lives and dignity).

They've also caused real harm. Some of the people they've doxxed for being members of the KKK really weren't, and that's harmful. They've declared war on terrorist organizations in the US (the KKK) and abroad (Daesh), which is great. Terrorism is bad. Terrorists are on the wrong track. I'm glad they're against terrorism.

I fail to see how anything they've done against Daesh has, so far, caused them any real hardship. So they've hacked some twitter accounts? Now, imagine for a moment that they're able to disrupt some communication lines Daesh has established, and they choose to disrupt those lines. Sounds great, but not so good for those who are actually trying to fight Daesh who are listening to those communications to gather intelligence in order to bring the fight to the enemy. Can you think of a way in which any hypothetical action Anonymous might take, or may plausibly be able to take, that would cause more help or harm in resistance to Daesh? I can't, but I wish them success regardless.

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Re: Hacker group Anonymous

Post by DGA » Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:51 pm

pothigai wrote:
I mean, evidence from a reputable source that there is systemic violence against Christians perpetrated by migrants. I don't think a video from a small Youtube channel that seems to primarily publish Islamophobic and anti-migrant material is really compelling evidence for this.
Bingo.

I'm sorry that pudgy German kid got beat up. Bullying is bad. One instance of bullying isn't adequate to make claims about some kind of war of cultures.

again, re: hasty generalization or generalizing from the particular

Fruitzilla
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Re: Hacker group Anonymous

Post by Fruitzilla » Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:14 pm

SeeLion wrote:Thought I lost it, but was able to find it again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pky3WeM4tI

It's English subtitles, maybe if somebody understands Dutch ... Because if you read the subtitle word for word, it doesn't make sense (it's towards the end).
I'm Dutch. Theses clearly are some not too bright second generation immigrant kids from a not too good neighbourhood. We have a few of them. We also have the native variant who think all muslims are terrorists and should be kicked out of the country, or worse. Both groups are a very small minority.

tingdzin
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Re: Hacker group Anonymous

Post by tingdzin » Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:16 am

Rather than the behavior of these kids (who are capable of being mindless little bullies anywhere) I am still more interested in the quotes attributed to the Brussels bureaucrat in the "Spiegel" source, about everybody learning to say Allah Akbar. My internet connection is spotty, so You-tubes are kind of an iffy proposition for me. Is there a link to a written source anywhere? If anybody in power in Brussels did say that, it makes me sympathize with those who want to dissolve the EU.

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