POTUS 2016, part 2

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Who would you like to see winning the presidency of the U.S.?

Hillary Clinton
22
54%
Donald Trump
19
46%
 
Total votes: 41

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DNS
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POTUS 2016, part 2

Post by DNS » Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:12 am

5 states voted today. Trump won all 5 on the Republican side in landslides. He is just a couple of hundred delegates away from wrapping up the nomination.

Hillary Clinton won at least 3 of the 5 states and won the larger states (Pennsylvania, Maryland) in landslides. She is just a couple of hundred delegates away from wrapping up the nomination.

Therefore, by all logic and mathematics, they can now be considered the likely, presumptive nominees. So in this part 2 thread, I'm starting another poll where it is just between the 2 presumptive nominees. Later part 3 will include the vice-presidential nominees (which they choose at or near the convention dates, this summer).

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Re: POTUS 2016, part 2

Post by AlexMcLeod » Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:17 am

Technically, there is another party that actually managed to get on all 50 States ballots. For once.
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 2

Post by Mkoll » Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:42 am

I agree: it will be Trump vs. Clinton barring some extraordinary shenanigans at the GOP convention. I find that unlikely because it would truly split the GOP when the die-hard Trump voters go ballistic.

These two are the most unfavorably viewed front-runners in history since polling began in 1984 (link). It's hard to say who is the least worst choic. On the one hand, Trump is wildly unpredictable, a pathological liar (even for a politician), doesn't have political experience, doesn't appear to have detailed knowledge of important domestic and foreign issues, a demagogue, and much more. On the other, Hillary is a war-hawk, takes money from Wall Street, a liar (seems about average for a politician), and more. That she is a war-hawk may trump all of Trump's other shortcomings because the last thing we need is more interventionist wars abroad.

That said, I'm leaning toward Hillary because I don't think she would risk starting another major war if she were president. That would kill her chances for re-election. Not gonna vote in this poll yet though. Gotta wait till I see what happens during their debates. :stirthepot:
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Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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Re: POTUS 2016, part 2

Post by DNS » Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:55 am

AlexMcLeod wrote:Technically, there is another party that actually managed to get on all 50 States ballots. For once.
Libertarians? Libertarian Party or any other 3rd party has no chance and basically just become spoilers, taking votes away from the only 2 parties that have a chance.
Mkoll wrote: It's hard to say who is the least worst choice. On the one hand, Trump is wildly unpredictable, a pathological liar (even for a politician), doesn't have political experience, doesn't appear to have detailed knowledge of important domestic and foreign issues, a demagogue, and much more. On the other, Hillary is a war-hawk, takes money from Wall Street, a liar (seems about average for a politician), and more. That she is a war-hawk may trump all of Trump's other shortcomings because the last thing we need is more interventionist wars abroad.
I agree. It's got to be one of the worst scenarios in recent history of who is available to vote for POTUS. Trump has repeatedly said he is going to "rebuild the military" and has also talked about sending ground troops into the Middle East. On the plus side, he has bashed George W. Bush pretty hard for going to Iraq and called the Iraq war one of the worst political mistakes in history. Hillary Clinton voted for the Iraq War, but is probably less likely to commit ground troops into the Middle East; but who knows, they often don't do what they say they will do.

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Re: POTUS 2016, part 2

Post by AlexMcLeod » Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:40 am

When you have two awful choices, the third looks mighty tempting.
Relax! Smile From The Heart!
There is a difference between the Mundane and the Transcendental. If you purposefully confuse them, I will ignore you, you nihilist.
There is no Emotion, there is Peace. There is no Ignorance, there is Knowledge. There is no Passion, there is Serenity. There is no Death, there is the Force.

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Re: POTUS 2016, part 2

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:00 am

AlexMcLeod wrote:When you have two awful choices, the third looks mighty tempting.
Right. If it really comes to this, I'm voting for Jill Stein. I guess I'd like to see Trump over Hillary, but I'd never actually vote for him, so I didn't vote in this poll.

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Re: POTUS 2016, part 2

Post by Kim O'Hara » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:04 am

AlexMcLeod wrote:When you have two awful choices, the third looks mighty tempting.
Yes, but you've still got to get out and vote for the least-worst of the two possible candidates or you're effectively voting for the worst - in this case, one of the worst Presidential candidates ever. :toilet:

:namaste:
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 2

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:21 am

Kim O'Hara wrote:
AlexMcLeod wrote:When you have two awful choices, the third looks mighty tempting.
Yes, but you've still got to get out and vote for the least-worst of the two possible candidates or you're effectively voting for the worst - in this case, one of the worst Presidential candidates ever. :toilet:

:namaste:
Kim
We'll have to agree to disagree. That logic sounds too similar to the logic people use to not vote at all. We need to start voting for third-parties if we want to disrupt the two party system. I like to vote for who I want to see as president. Actually, I voted for Stein in 2012 and now her 2016 campaign has been even stronger :twothumbsup:

Then again, maybe I'm just too idealistic :juggling:

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Re: POTUS 2016, part 2

Post by krodha » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:53 am

Bernie isn't out of this race right yet, especially if he slays in California, which he very well might.

That said I also have no interest in giving Hillary or Trump my vote, so count me out of this poll as well.

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Re: POTUS 2016, part 2

Post by dreambow » Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:11 am

Donald Trump slammed the Obama administration over its secretive Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade deal, labeling it as disastrous and warning that it will encourage US companies to slash domestic jobs.
They don’t talk about currency manipulation,” he said. “That’s the tool all these countries are using to beat us.
If what Trump says is true and he would be willing and able to scrap the TPP trade deal....well I would find that refreshing

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Re: POTUS 2016, part 2

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:25 am

dreambow wrote:Donald Trump slammed the Obama administration over its secretive Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade deal, labeling it as disastrous and warning that it will encourage US companies to slash domestic jobs.
They don’t talk about currency manipulation,” he said. “That’s the tool all these countries are using to beat us.
If what Trump says is true and he would be willing and able to scrap the TPP trade deal....well I would find that refreshing

That's the saddest thing, even Trump is better on trade than Hillary. Of course I could never vote for him for other reasons, nor do I think I can stomach voting for Hillary.
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 2

Post by Kim O'Hara » Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:42 am

tomamundsen wrote:
Kim O'Hara wrote:
AlexMcLeod wrote:When you have two awful choices, the third looks mighty tempting.
Yes, but you've still got to get out and vote for the least-worst of the two possible candidates or you're effectively voting for the worst - in this case, one of the worst Presidential candidates ever. :toilet:

:namaste:
Kim
We'll have to agree to disagree. That logic sounds too similar to the logic people use to not vote at all. We need to start voting for third-parties if we want to disrupt the two party system. I like to vote for who I want to see as president. Actually, I voted for Stein in 2012 and now her 2016 campaign has been even stronger :twothumbsup:

Then again, maybe I'm just too idealistic :juggling:
I'm all in favour of disrupting the two-party system - and let me give you some encouragement: it can work! :twothumbsup: We now have a viable Greens party with a big enough chunk of the vote to make a difference.
But unless you have preferential voting (and I don't think you do) my logic is good in this particular case. A protest vote, or abstaining, is a vote for the candidate you like least.
You need to build your third party a lot earlier in the process and lower down in the political system. Get its members onto local councils and state governments to build the profile and support base which will get a federal member over the line. It's a twenty-year project, but worth a try.

:namaste:
Kim

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Re: POTUS 2016, part 2

Post by krodha » Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:08 am

Sanders' statement on the primaries today:

  • I congratulate Secretary Clinton on her victories tonight, and I look forward to issue-oriented campaigns in the 14 contests to come.

    “I am proud that we were able to win a resounding victory tonight in Rhode Island, the one state with an open primary where independents had a say in the outcome. Democrats should recognize that the ticket with the best chance of winning this November must attract support from independents as well as Democrats. I am proud of my campaign’s record in that regard.

    “The people in every state in this country should have the right to determine who they want as president and what the agenda of the Democratic Party should be. That’s why we are in this race until the last vote is cast. That is why this campaign is going to the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia with as many delegates as possible to fight for a progressive party platform that calls for a $15 an hour minimum wage, an end to our disastrous trade policies, a Medicare-for-all health care system, breaking up Wall Street financial institutions, ending fracking in our country, making public colleges and universities tuition free and passing a carbon tax so we can effectively address the planetary crisis of climate change.”

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Re: POTUS 2016, part 2

Post by Virgo » Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:31 pm

This isn't the end. This is the beginning.

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Re: POTUS 2016, part 2

Post by Malcolm » Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:44 pm

#Bernieorbust
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Re: POTUS 2016, part 2

Post by frank123 » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:31 pm

Malcolm wrote:#Bernieorbust
Unfortunately its bust for you.

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Re: POTUS 2016, part 2

Post by Malcolm » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:33 pm

frank123 wrote:
Malcolm wrote:#Bernieorbust
Unfortunately its bust for you.
It aint over till its over. He is going to the convention. And, I will never vote for Hillary Clinton...(or Donald Trump).
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Re: POTUS 2016, part 2

Post by frank123 » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:36 pm

Malcolm wrote:
frank123 wrote:
Malcolm wrote:#Bernieorbust
Unfortunately its bust for you.
It aint over till its over. He is going to the convention. And, I will never vote for Hillary Clinton...(or Donald Trump).
I don't blame you one bit.

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Re: POTUS 2016, part 2

Post by Queequeg » Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:01 pm

My wife is a fairly typical democrat. She believes that Hilary has this in the bag. She keeps saying, the people who supported Bernie will vote for Hilary and it will be a landslide... I've stopped trying to explain to her that Bernie voters are probably just as likely to sit the general out as vote for Hilary and there is a good chance they'd even vote Trump, simply because of his economic nationalist positions.

This is totally unscientific and anecdotal, but I'm kind of getting surprised at what I hear people say in the elevators... how people are warming up to Trump - people you'd never expect, Caribbean blacks, for instance. People say things like, "well, he may either be the worst president or the greatest. who knows." Which suggests to me, if its between a coin flip and holding your nose for Hilary... I think there's a lot of people who'd rather go for the coin flip.

The US shocked the world with a black guy with an Islamic middle name for president... We may shock again for very different reasons...
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Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
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Re: POTUS 2016, part 2

Post by Queequeg » Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:05 pm

we need another poll option - NOT VOTING.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
-Jerry Garcia

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