Inside the Bathroom Movement

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Nicholas Weeks
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Inside the Bathroom Movement

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Thu May 12, 2016 8:48 pm

A gay man, with wit and wisdom, makes enemies on the PC Left:

http://review.antiochcollege.org/sacred ... iel-harris
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Re: Inside the Bathroom Movement

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Thu May 12, 2016 8:58 pm

Good article, but not sure what you think it has to do with the "bathroom debate" at all, which IMO is largely about conservative activists creating a non-problem of TG people who will creepily haunt bathrooms in an attempt to do..something or other to young girls or boys. )(&u'ing news flash:

You already use the bathroom with these people, and have since time immemorial, so get over it.

Far as the article itself, I thought it made a lot of good points which do often get swept under the rug in some attempt to be "accepting", I think we would all be better off adopting a libertarian attitude about these sorts of things, rather than the doctrinaire ideas you usually see on both sides.
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Re: Inside the Bathroom Movement

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Thu May 12, 2016 11:23 pm

Johnny D, The article is about Trangenders, which is the latest itty bitty group trying (with success) to control the rest of society.

Here is one snip from Harris' piece:
While I fervently support TGs’ rights to transition and to do so without fear of reprisal, I believe that the whole phenomenon of switching one’s gender is a mass delusion.

- See more at: http://review.antiochcollege.org/sacred ... c2HBT.dpuf
We have enough 'mass delusion' as is, without adding this goofy cause of so-called surgical gender change.
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Re: Inside the Bathroom Movement

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Thu May 12, 2016 11:38 pm

Nicholas Weeks wrote:Johnny D, The article is about Trangenders, which is the latest itty bitty group trying (with success) to control the rest of society.
Talk about hyperbole, IMO you should probably read up more broadly than just some conservative talking points and slogan-y statements like that.
While I fervently support TGs’ rights to transition and to do so without fear of reprisal, I believe that the whole phenomenon of switching one’s gender is a mass delusion.

- See more at: http://review.antiochcollege.org/sacred ... c2HBT.dpuf

We have enough 'mass delusion' as is, without adding this goofy cause of so-called surgical gender change.
Yeah, I read most of the article.

It's more complicated than you are presenting it, much more complicated. Firstly, some people ARE born the wrong gender, in the sense that they are born with both male and female genitalia, then the doctors do some snip snip or alteration at birth in order to provide clarity, and people end up spending half their lives the wrong gender. This is a thing that actually happens. Similarly, there are people with chromosomal abnormalities etc. who are effectively physiologically "transgender", and probably a number of things we haven't even found out yet.

On the other hand, AFAIC Gender Dysphoria is a real disorder, and the current climate of simply saying "you can be any sex you want" is naive IMO, especially because (again AFAIC) there is no real convincing evidence yet that gender reassignment surgery has a great success rate in terms of making people more psychologically "whole". Additionally I find myself agreeing at least a little with some of his points on gender reassignment and the connection to attitudes regarding plastic surgery, etc.

Does that constitute "controlling the rest of society"? No, it doesn't. IMO the fact that you think it does just only shows that either you have read or been exposed to very little on this subject, or you just have an agenda of entirely discrediting the idea. He already states in the article that he supports their rights to transition, even if he disagrees with their premise, I feel the same.

I don't approve of some of the tunnel vision tactics of these activists, but I approve even less of people on the reflexive right who want to pretend they are somehow being "controlled" because a group is doing something they don't like, and has obnoxious arguments. No one is controlling you, and I'm willing to bet the actions of transgender activists have absolutely zero effect on your life. It sounds like you are are simply saying that you have the right to decide they must be wrong in their ideas of gender..fair enough, I have my own reservations about the current notions surrounding "trans". However, you don't have the right to decide what they do any more than they have the right to label you as 'cis-gendered', and expect you to agree with their ideas. Like I said, a libertarian approach is preferable here IMO.

In other words, the article, and your opinions on TG, still have not that much to do with the current controversy over bathrooms, which is more than anything about the wrongheaded idea (promulgated by Americans who are scared shitless of their own shadows) that there are some group of nefarious trans people waiting to accost the opposite sex in bathrooms.
Last edited by Johnny Dangerous on Thu May 12, 2016 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Inside the Bathroom Movement

Post by dreambow » Thu May 12, 2016 11:53 pm

A brilliant, very long article.
Similar to what Germaine Greer had to say and she was promptly pilloried by the politically correct. Whatever unsuspecting thoughts hover in a persons mind.....a smear of lipstick does not a woman make!

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Re: Inside the Bathroom Movement

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Fri May 13, 2016 1:54 am

Johnny D. I am not a sociologist, nor wedded to just conservative sites or thinking. But here on the Left Coast, Gov. Jerry and his Dem cohorts have passed or are about to pass, a mandated bathroom policy for all government, education and business entities. Their alleged motive is to spare this tiny flock of sad TG folks whatever trauma they have to face in public restrooms.

The 99.44% of the rest of society just does not matter to progressive types. This is a totalitarian agenda, supposedly based on compassion. Hooey!
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Re: Inside the Bathroom Movement

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Fri May 13, 2016 2:05 am

Nicholas Weeks wrote:Johnny D. I am not a sociologist, nor wedded to just conservative sites or thinking. But here on the Left Coast, Gov. Jerry and his Dem cohorts have passed or are about to pass, a mandated bathroom policy for all government, education and business entities. Their alleged motive is to spare this tiny flock of sad TG folks whatever trauma they have to face in public restrooms.

The 99.44% of the rest of society just does not matter to progressive types. This is a totalitarian agenda, supposedly based on compassion. Hooey!

You don't need to be sociologist to actually discuss things ,and stop the borderline trolling. Maybe you could start by not simply repeating slogans and pigeonholing people you disagree with?

And how exactly does this agenda affect you again? How is it totalitarian? Obnoxious sure...totalitarian though, that is some pathetic hyperbolic nonsense. And who are "progressive types" exactly?

The only people with worse arguments than the regressive left are the reactionary right IMO :)
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Knowing the dustless, sorrowless state,
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Re: Inside the Bathroom Movement

Post by dreambow » Fri May 13, 2016 3:24 am

Obnoxious or annoying it may be. A lot of these fringe issues seem to have more impact on society then they seem worthy of. Distraction is the name of the game, orchestrated by the main stream media bent on covering up and stalling real investigative journalism about what's really unfolding regarding the military, the banks and the Transnationals.

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Re: Inside the Bathroom Movement

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Fri May 13, 2016 4:04 am

Johnny D: If what I write is not up to your standards, so be it. I have little formal education, so do not know how to (nor wish to learn) frame a proper argument.

I do not see argument or discussion on social matters of much profit, because you and many others have already pigeonholed me as a sloganeer of weak mind.

Everyone knows all deep thought comes from Progressive thinkers. :roll:
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Re: Inside the Bathroom Movement

Post by mossy » Fri May 13, 2016 4:38 am

it seems really simple to me, if you have male parts use the men's restroom, if you have lady parts use the lady restroom. if you have had your mens parts changed to lady parts then fine use the ladies restroom. i don't have a issue with gay marriage, you can even find me marching in the SF pride parade every year, but i am having a hard time getting behind this new gender identity push.

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Re: Inside the Bathroom Movement

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Fri May 13, 2016 4:46 am

dreambow wrote:Obnoxious or annoying it may be. A lot of these fringe issues seem to have more impact on society then they seem worthy of. Distraction is the name of the game, orchestrated by the main stream media bent on covering up and stalling real investigative journalism about what's really unfolding regarding the military, the banks and the Transnationals.

I can agree on this 100%.
His welcoming
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Knowing the dustless, sorrowless state,
he discerns rightly,
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Re: Inside the Bathroom Movement

Post by Yavana » Fri May 13, 2016 6:21 am

I don't see why bodily functions should be limited to one arbitrary space. They're natural, and should be relieved where they arise, when they arise.

Problem solved, folks!

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Re: Inside the Bathroom Movement

Post by Mkoll » Fri May 13, 2016 6:40 am

Obama administration steps in:

U.S. Directs Public Schools to Allow Transgender Access to Restrooms
WASHINGTON — The Obama administration is planning to issue a sweeping directive telling every public school district in the country to allow transgender students to use the bathrooms that match their gender identity.

A letter to school districts will go out Friday, adding to a highly charged debate over transgender rights in the middle of the administration’s legal fight with North Carolina over the issue. The declaration — signed by Justice and Education department officials — will describe what schools should do to ensure that none of their students are discriminated against.

It does not have the force of law, but it contains an implicit threat: Schools that do not abide by the Obama administration’s interpretation of the law could face lawsuits or a loss of federal aid.
And further the divide deepens between the political left and right...

edit: also, good article by the OP—witty and scathing
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Re: Inside the Bathroom Movement

Post by treehuggingoctopus » Fri May 13, 2016 7:38 am

There is just one massive problem with gender-neutral bathrooms, and that is the potential of abuse inflicted there on women (and GBTQ men) by men. If only we could make sure it does not happen...
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Re: Inside the Bathroom Movement

Post by DGA » Fri May 13, 2016 5:28 pm

General principle: everyone should be able to take a dump in peace, including transgender people.

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Re: Inside the Bathroom Movement

Post by Redfaery » Fri May 13, 2016 7:02 pm

treehuggingoctopus wrote:There is just one massive problem with gender-neutral bathrooms, and that is the potential of abuse inflicted there on women (and GBTQ men) by men. If only we could make sure it does not happen...
But this already happens, even in bathrooms segregated by sex. Is a WOMEN ONLY sign some sort of magical deterrent?
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Re: Inside the Bathroom Movement

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Fri May 13, 2016 7:40 pm

DGA wrote:General principle: everyone should be able to take a dump in peace, including transgender people.
No surprise, but the federal government demands far more from us than pooping in peace:

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/us-depar ... vil-rights
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Re: Inside the Bathroom Movement

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Fri May 13, 2016 7:46 pm

Nicholas Weeks wrote:
DGA wrote:General principle: everyone should be able to take a dump in peace, including transgender people.
No surprise, but the federal government demands far more from us than pooping in peace:

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/us-depar ... vil-rights

How terrible, you mean now possibly fewer TG Highschool kids might get the shit beaten out of them by being forced to use a different restroom than they are comfortable with? Wow, yeah, I really feel for ya, you are truly oppressed by these changes.

Do you not understand what this means? basically it's saying that schools cannot compel someone who likely is already the butt of extreme harassment to use a restroom they are not comfortable using, one where they would likely face even more harassment upon use. Unless there are now mandatory genitals checks in school bathrooms, that shouldn't be an issue. Like people have mentioned, you are already using the bathroom with these people.

What amazes me here is not so much that you don't get the TG thing (I don't either, to be honest), but that so far you have entirely missed the whole part where TG people regularly face violence, and Highschools are a prime place for that.
His welcoming
& rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
Knowing the dustless, sorrowless state,
he discerns rightly,
has gone, beyond becoming,
to the Further Shore.

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Re: Inside the Bathroom Movement

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Fri May 13, 2016 7:54 pm

John D.: How terrible, you mean now possibly fewer TG Highschool kids might get the shit beaten out of them by being forced to use a different restroom...
You are not familiar with the liberated girls of today, especially in the big city schools. Do you think a trans guy will be welcomed into the girls room or shower by hugs and kisses? Will a trans girl get back slaps and a membership card in the patriarchy, when he strides into the boys room or shower?

Good luck. :toilet:
Mr Danger again: What amazes me here is not so much that you don't get the TG thing (I don't either, to be honest), but that so far you have entirely missed the whole part where TG people regularly face violence, and Highschools are a prime place for that.
So do teachers and black & latinos & religious kids face violence in the schools... think a dozen more laws will fix that?
Last edited by Nicholas Weeks on Fri May 13, 2016 8:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Inside the Bathroom Movement

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Fri May 13, 2016 7:57 pm

Nicholas Weeks wrote:
John D.: How terrible, you mean now possibly fewer TG Highschool kids might get the shit beaten out of them by being forced to use a different restroom...
You are not familiar with the liberated girls of today, especially in the big city schools. Do you think if a trans guy will be welcomed into the girls room or shower by hugs and kisses? Will a trans girl get back slaps and a membership card in the patriarchy, when he strides into the boys room or shower?

Good luck. :toilet:
You are not familiar with the liberated girls of today
I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts I have way more experience with the "youth of today" than you do, purely by judging your posts.

People will just use the bathroom like they always do. These laws are meant to prevent people from compelling others to stop what they are already doing in terms of bathroom use etc...how you would enforce biological sex use of restrooms anyway I don't know, unless you advocate checking genitals.

The idea that a trans person generally (sure, maybe there are a few attention-sskers that might< I grant you) would "parade" around a locker room, an environment where they are already likely uncomfortable seems pretty unlikely. IMO you have a caricature-like notion of what these people are actually like.

These scenarios you are making up seem like fantasies to me.
Last edited by Johnny Dangerous on Fri May 13, 2016 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
His welcoming
& rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
Knowing the dustless, sorrowless state,
he discerns rightly,
has gone, beyond becoming,
to the Further Shore.

-Lokavipatti Sutta

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