POTUS 2016, part 3

The best place for discussion of current events. News about Buddhists and Buddhism is particularly welcome.

Who would you like to see winning the presidency of the U.S.?

Hillary Clinton - (Dem.)
28
36%
Donald Trump - Mike Pence (Rep.)
14
18%
Gary Johnson - Bill Weld (Libertarian)
6
8%
Jill Stein (Green)
29
38%
 
Total votes: 77

User avatar
Caoimhghín
Posts: 2222
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:35 pm
Location: Whitby, Ontario

Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Caoimhghín » Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:27 am

Sādhaka wrote:
Rakz wrote:On white liberals who claim to be anti-racist:

phpBB [video]
I'm no fan of muslimism (nor any other abrahamism; nor am I particularly an fan of Trump); and even so:


Image


(Although I wouldn't necessarily go as far to say that all white-'liberals' are foxes)


Also, there's no such thing as an "gay Uncle Tom":
I.e. when lily-white/jew-leftists—and feminists who say that they should have "control of their own bodies", even though the baby inside them is IN their body, not only part of their body—try to compare the situation of homosexuality to what Black people, Native-Americans, and the victims of the materialist-brand-of-communism have gone through, it is insulting to say the least.

I've got many views that would be considered very liberal to the average redneck; and at the same time, when conservatives say that liberal-ism (or better said extremist-liberal-ism) is an sort of mental-disorder, I wonder if they're right....
Gay Uncle Tom's definitely exist. Proof? Milo is my gay uncle Tom, simple as that. He performs homosexuality to homophobic crowds, telling them what they want to hear.
歸命本覺心法身常住妙法心蓮臺本來莊嚴三身徳三十七尊住心
城遠離因果法然具普門塵數諸三昧無邊徳海本圓滿還我頂禮心諸佛

In reverence for the root gnosis of the heart, the dharmakāya,
for the ever present good law of the heart, the lotus terrace,
for the inborn adornment of the trikāya, the thirty-seven sages dwelling in the heart,
for that which is removed from seed and fruit, the upright key to the universal gate,
for all boundless concentrations, the sea of virtue, the root perfection,
I prostrate, bowing to the hearts of all Buddhas.

胎藏金剛菩提心義略問答鈔, Treatise on the teaching of the gnostic heart of the womb and the diamond, T2397.1.470c5-8

User avatar
Fa Dao
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:42 pm

Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Fa Dao » Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:55 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Fa Dao wrote:I found this to be a thought provoking video in line with some of the discussions in this thread....please, no knee-jerk reactions from either side..
thoughts?
phpBB [video]

White privilege is not about income. It's about the fact that white Americans (excluding Jews) run virtually no risk of having their civil rights systematically violated.
and how about the views of this guy?
phpBB [video]
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

Malcolm
Posts: 29309
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Malcolm » Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:11 pm

Fa Dao wrote:
and how about the views of this guy?

Someone who is in deep denial.

BuddhaFollower
Posts: 602
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:41 pm

Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by BuddhaFollower » Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:30 pm

phpBB [video]

User avatar
Fa Dao
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:42 pm

Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Fa Dao » Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:42 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Fa Dao wrote:
and how about the views of this guy?

Someone who is in deep denial.
Him or you? LOL Seriously though, sounds like he has a relatively healthy attitude...and if you notice he's not saying that racism doesn't exist, just that it's not as prevalent and systemic as the left puts forth in their narrative...not to mention that he puts forth some interesting facts and figures on crime rates in the black community...I found this interview quite thought provoking...
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

User avatar
maybay
Posts: 1604
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:12 pm

Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by maybay » Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:45 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Fa Dao wrote:
and how about the views of this guy?

Someone who is in deep denial.
Got lots of good stats though.

The idea of systemic racism seems to come from the pragmatic perspective. It is only as good a measure of what people feel as what can be done about it. A policy perspective in other words. For one thing, the root of racism is tribalism, which we all feel to a greater or lesser extent, depending how suppressed it is. To talk of systemic racism suggests a breakdown in cosmopolitan society's ability to suppress itself.

So while the extent of racism is always of equal potential/risk across our population, a more telling perspective is the degree of its manifestation, from tacit to explicit racism, culminating in systematised racism. Or rather, to use different terms, from prejudice to racism. This would be the measure of how freely people feel they may express their prejudices, to the point of writing it into law.

The guess speaker likes to take things literally. His rather abrasive manner seems to suggest a narrow vision. But then we should expect him to argue against systemic racism as if it were systemized racism, which does not presently occur.
People will know nothing and everything
Remember nothing and everything
Think nothing and everything
Do nothing and everything
- Machig Labdron

Sādhaka
Posts: 553
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:39 pm

Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Sādhaka » Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:37 am

Coëmgenu,

No you totally missed the point.

Malcolm
Posts: 29309
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Malcolm » Sat Nov 26, 2016 1:26 pm

Fa Dao wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Fa Dao wrote:
and how about the views of this guy?

Someone who is in deep denial.
Him or you? LOL Seriously though, sounds like he has a relatively healthy attitude...and if you notice he's not saying that racism doesn't exist, just that it's not as prevalent and systemic as the left puts forth in their narrative...not to mention that he puts forth some interesting facts and figures on crime rates in the black community...I found this interview quite thought provoking...
https://www.netflix.com/title/80091741

User avatar
Caoimhghín
Posts: 2222
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:35 pm
Location: Whitby, Ontario

Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Caoimhghín » Sat Nov 26, 2016 4:06 pm

Sādhaka wrote:Coëmgenu,

No you totally missed the point.
The point that some gay people are prone to internalizing homophobic discourse and having it come to inform their worldview in much the same way that some people of colour are prone to internalizing racist discourse and coming to believe it and spout it themselves? Cause that would be "Uncle-Tomism". Milo being a classic example.
歸命本覺心法身常住妙法心蓮臺本來莊嚴三身徳三十七尊住心
城遠離因果法然具普門塵數諸三昧無邊徳海本圓滿還我頂禮心諸佛

In reverence for the root gnosis of the heart, the dharmakāya,
for the ever present good law of the heart, the lotus terrace,
for the inborn adornment of the trikāya, the thirty-seven sages dwelling in the heart,
for that which is removed from seed and fruit, the upright key to the universal gate,
for all boundless concentrations, the sea of virtue, the root perfection,
I prostrate, bowing to the hearts of all Buddhas.

胎藏金剛菩提心義略問答鈔, Treatise on the teaching of the gnostic heart of the womb and the diamond, T2397.1.470c5-8

dreambow
Posts: 434
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:59 am

Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by dreambow » Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:54 pm

I found Larry Elder quite convincing. I understand there is a long historical narrative attached to this problem and its hard to explain it all in one short video but this man came out with some salient points.

User avatar
Fa Dao
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:42 pm

Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Fa Dao » Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:54 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:
Sādhaka wrote:Coëmgenu,

No you totally missed the point.
The point that some gay people are prone to internalizing homophobic discourse and having it come to inform their worldview in much the same way that some people of colour are prone to internalizing racist discourse and coming to believe it and spout it themselves? Cause that would be "Uncle-Tomism". Milo being a classic example.
I see....so, if a gay person has (gasp) a conservative viewpoint this makes them guilty of "Uncle-Tomism"? All gay people should be left leaning or they are a traitor to all other gay people? and the same applies to blacks who hold conservative views?? really?? seriously?? I have watched a few of Milos talks...dont agree with a few things that he says but it hardly makes him a traitorous "gay uncle tom"?
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

User avatar
Fa Dao
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:42 pm

Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Fa Dao » Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:03 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Fa Dao wrote:
Malcolm wrote:

Someone who is in deep denial.
Him or you? LOL Seriously though, sounds like he has a relatively healthy attitude...and if you notice he's not saying that racism doesn't exist, just that it's not as prevalent and systemic as the left puts forth in their narrative...not to mention that he puts forth some interesting facts and figures on crime rates in the black community...I found this interview quite thought provoking...
https://www.netflix.com/title/80091741

Yes...looks like an interesting show but does not negate any of the points that Larry Elder made. I admire the guy...takes a lot of courage to stand up against the current PC narrative and say what he did
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

Malcolm
Posts: 29309
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Malcolm » Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:49 am

Fa Dao wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Fa Dao wrote:
Him or you? LOL Seriously though, sounds like he has a relatively healthy attitude...and if you notice he's not saying that racism doesn't exist, just that it's not as prevalent and systemic as the left puts forth in their narrative...not to mention that he puts forth some interesting facts and figures on crime rates in the black community...I found this interview quite thought provoking...
https://www.netflix.com/title/80091741

Yes...looks like an interesting show but does not negate any of the points that Larry Elder made. I admire the guy...takes a lot of courage to stand up against the current PC narrative and say what he did
So you didn't watch it. Figures.

User avatar
Virgo
Former staff member
Posts: 3557
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:47 am
Location: Uni-verse

Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Virgo » Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:10 am

I'll watch it, thanx Malcolm.

Kevin

User avatar
Fa Dao
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:42 pm

Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Fa Dao » Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:52 am

Malcolm wrote:
Fa Dao wrote:

Yes...looks like an interesting show but does not negate any of the points that Larry Elder made. I admire the guy...takes a lot of courage to stand up against the current PC narrative and say what he did
So you didn't watch it. Figures.
And you did not refute ANY of the points he made...nice deflection. Besides I already know that more blacks are incarcerated than whites...he addressed that in the interview, and according to the facts and figures he cited it isn't due to "systemic racism"
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

Malcolm
Posts: 29309
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Malcolm » Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:59 am

Fa Dao wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Fa Dao wrote:
Yes...looks like an interesting show but does not negate any of the points that Larry Elder made. I admire the guy...takes a lot of courage to stand up against the current PC narrative and say what he did
So you didn't watch it. Figures.
And you did not refute ANY of the points he made...nice deflection. Besides I already know that more blacks are incarcerated than whites...he addressed that in the interview, and according to the facts and figures he cited it isn't due to "systemic racism"
Watch the movie, or better yet read the New Jim Crow, if you want "facts and figures":
I reached the conclusions presented in this book reluctantly. Ten years ago, I would have argued strenuously against the central claim made here—namely, that something akin to a racial caste system currently exists in the United States.

-- Michelle Alexander

User avatar
Virgo
Former staff member
Posts: 3557
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:47 am
Location: Uni-verse

Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Virgo » Sun Nov 27, 2016 2:50 am

Amazing docu.

Kevin

User avatar
Fa Dao
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:42 pm

Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Fa Dao » Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:17 am

Malcolm wrote:
Fa Dao wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
So you didn't watch it. Figures.
And you did not refute ANY of the points he made...nice deflection. Besides I already know that more blacks are incarcerated than whites...he addressed that in the interview, and according to the facts and figures he cited it isn't due to "systemic racism"
Watch the movie, or better yet read the New Jim Crow, if you want "facts and figures":
I reached the conclusions presented in this book reluctantly. Ten years ago, I would have argued strenuously against the central claim made here—namely, that something akin to a racial caste system currently exists in the United States.

-- Michelle Alexander
And so far you still have not refuted any of the points he made...I am open to reading the book etc..I am open to differing viewpoints...are you?? I used to be far left until I noticed that the far left sounded an awful lot like the far right that I, at one time, would call "racist, misogynistic, homophobic, fascist, and lets not forget islamophobic". Then about a year ago I decided to open my mind a little...so instead of just reading Huffpo etc I started also reading Breitbart etc. to gain more than a one-sided viewpoint. If a person presents a view in a rational and fact based way I am open to listening..dont care if they are right/left, liberal/conservative. I refuse to buy into any narrative that is tried to be shoved down my throat by anyone. And I also look deeper with anyone that I am listening to, to find out what their agenda is...and EVERYONE has an agenda...even facts and figures can be skewed depending upon the persons personal agenda and the viewpoint they are trying to sell you. But I will say this...if a person starts their talk with "liberal america haters", "far right racist fascists" etc etc and liberally peppers their argument with name calling...I tend to tune them out....
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

User avatar
Quay
Posts: 340
Joined: Mon May 16, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Quay » Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:23 am

Fa Dao wrote:...
I see....so, if a gay person has (gasp) a conservative viewpoint this makes them guilty of "Uncle-Tomism"?...
That would depend on how you define "conservative viewpoint." If for example a gay person aligned themselves with the 2016 Republican Party Platform then, yes, a charge of Uncle-Tomism would likely stick pretty well. But if you're talking about general conservative principles as expressed in the recent past by people like Senator Henry "Scoop" Jackson, Barry Goldwater, Dwight Eisenhower & others then it is perfectly possible to be a gay conservative.

Alas the modern Republican party is neither conservative nor really republican (small r) in that it has been taken over by extremists of all flavors, ones that make the dreaded John Birchers of the past look like Boy Scout Headmasters.
"Knowledge is as infinite as the stars in the sky;
There is no end to all the subjects one could study.
It is better to grasp straight away their very essence--
The unchanging fortress of the Dharmakaya."

– Longchenpa.

User avatar
Fa Dao
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:42 pm

Re: POTUS 2016, part 3

Post by Fa Dao » Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:30 am

Quay wrote:
Fa Dao wrote:...
I see....so, if a gay person has (gasp) a conservative viewpoint this makes them guilty of "Uncle-Tomism"?...

Alas the modern Republican party is neither conservative nor really republican (small r) in that it has been taken over by extremists of all flavors, ones that make the dreaded John Birchers of the past look like Boy Scout Headmasters.
I dont entirely disagree with this...however the same thing has happened to the left as well...that's why I don't identify as being left/right, liberal/conservative any longer...
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

Locked

Return to “News & Current Events”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 29 guests