"Deaths of despair"

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PuerAzaelis
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"Deaths of despair"

Post by PuerAzaelis » Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:09 pm

Dying of sadness is making a comeback.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/death-rate ... 1490240740
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind

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binocular
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Re: "Deaths of despair"

Post by binocular » Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:45 pm

PuerAzaelis wrote:Dying of sadness is making a comeback.
Was there a time when people didn't massively die of sadness? Other than the plague?

tingdzin
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Re: "Deaths of despair"

Post by tingdzin » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:28 am

Can't read the article -- how many WSJ subscribers are there among readers of this site?

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justsit
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Re: "Deaths of despair"

Post by justsit » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:57 am


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Wayfarer
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Re: "Deaths of despair"

Post by Wayfarer » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:47 am

That is very sad and also very concerning. I see it as a sign of the real failure of American culture, society and politics, on a deep level. What was that saying I read in someone's signature? 'The reason they call it 'the American dream' is because you'd have to be asleep to believe in it.' Unfortunately this is turning out to be so for many millions of people.

This sense of despair is what got Trump elected - he promised that he can turn it around. (Which I very much doubt. The story makes note of the fact that if the Republicans abolish the Affordable Care Act, those people will be the biggest losers.)

But, it's a terrible situation, made worse by the fact that really nobody in Government - or nobody who gets any media - is doing anything to address it.
Only practice with no gaining idea ~ Suzuki Roshi

tingdzin
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Re: "Deaths of despair"

Post by tingdzin » Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:39 pm

Thanks, justsit.
Wayfarer wrote:But, it's a terrible situation, made worse by the fact that really nobody in Government - or nobody who gets any media - is doing anything to address it.
Yes, the government is run by elitists of both parties and special interest groups.

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Malcolm
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Re: "Deaths of despair"

Post by Malcolm » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:22 pm

Wayfarer wrote:That is very sad and also very concerning. I see it as a sign of the real failure of American culture, society and politics, on a deep level.
So you mean all the despair of blacks, latinos, and women amounts to nothing? It is only a failure of American Culture when white men start to off themselves through drugs, alcohol and depression?
This sense of despair is what got Trump elected - he promised that he can turn it around.
77,000 votes got Trump elected. Please bear in mind he lost the popular vote by 3 million+
But, it's a terrible situation, made worse by the fact that really nobody in Government - or nobody who gets any media - is doing anything to address it.
The reality is that the correlation does not track ethnic identity, it tracks education. People with less education have fewer tools and resources to deal with adversarial conditions.

If there is a correlation with the Government policies, the correlation lies in the steep cuts to public education and related funding since the Reagan era.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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PuerAzaelis
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Re: "Deaths of despair"

Post by PuerAzaelis » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:22 pm

Malcolm wrote:So you mean all the despair of blacks, latinos, and women amounts to nothing? It is only a failure of American Culture when white men start to off themselves through drugs, alcohol and depression?
Right. The article made it clear that while similar deaths in Hispanic and black communities were decreasing, the aggregate ratio remains far higher than in white communities. But - the headline essentially means that the community with the best mental health is deteriorating. The headline did not say that the communities with the worst mental health were improving. So I'd say the odd focus of the article means that an improvement of mental health in Hispanic or black communities is not characterized as a relevant success of American culture.
Malcolm wrote:The reality is that the correlation does not track ethnic identity, it tracks education.
And education spending (I'm just guessing) will correlate with attitudes concerning race. As you've said the problem is institutional.
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind

For posts from this user, see Karma Dondrup Tashi account.

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Malcolm
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Re: "Deaths of despair"

Post by Malcolm » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:08 pm

PuerAzaelis wrote:
Malcolm wrote:So you mean all the despair of blacks, latinos, and women amounts to nothing? It is only a failure of American Culture when white men start to off themselves through drugs, alcohol and depression?
Right. The article made it clear that while similar deaths in Hispanic and black communities were decreasing, the aggregate ratio remains far higher than in white communities. But - the headline essentially means that the community with the best mental health is deteriorating. The headline did not say that the communities with the worst mental health were improving. So I'd say the odd focus of the article means that an improvement of mental health in Hispanic or black communities is not characterized as a relevant success of American culture.
Precisely. White women have been offing themselves with drugs and alchohol for decades and decades. Mommy's little helper and all that,


It is interesting too to note that addiction rates are much lower in Europe in general.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

binocular
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Re: "Deaths of despair"

Post by binocular » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:18 pm

Malcolm wrote:People with less education have fewer tools and resources to deal with adversarial conditions.
This needs elaborating.
What education does one get in school that provides the student with better tools and resources to deal with adversarial conditions? They generally don't teach life skills in schools. But it does take a lot of life skills to successfully complete a course of education.

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Malcolm
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Re: "Deaths of despair"

Post by Malcolm » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:47 pm

binocular wrote:
Malcolm wrote:People with less education have fewer tools and resources to deal with adversarial conditions.
This needs elaborating.
What education does one get in school that provides the student with better tools and resources to deal with adversarial conditions? They generally don't teach life skills in schools. But it does take a lot of life skills to successfully complete a course of education.
I was referring adversarial conditions in contemporary society which render less-educated people less marketable for jobs, etc.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

binocular
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Re: "Deaths of despair"

Post by binocular » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:04 pm

Malcolm wrote:I was referring adversarial conditions in contemporary society which render less-educated people less marketable for jobs, etc.
In which case, it is not education itself that provides people with better tools and resources to deal with adversarial conditions. Education is just a means to an end in our particular system.

But education doesn't really solve anything, it just shfits the same problem to another level. Education only offers an advantage to a person as long as enough other people don't get that education. But when more people get that education, the competition is just the same, and many lose out again. IOW, you could educate everyone, and many people would still be unemployed. This is because our systems of production are far too efficient for everyone to have room to have a job.

Rakz
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Re: "Deaths of despair"

Post by Rakz » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:59 pm

binocular wrote:
Malcolm wrote:I was referring adversarial conditions in contemporary society which render less-educated people less marketable for jobs, etc.
In which case, it is not education itself that provides people with better tools and resources to deal with adversarial conditions. Education is just a means to an end in our particular system.

But education doesn't really solve anything, it just shfits the same problem to another level. Education only offers an advantage to a person as long as enough other people don't get that education. But when more people get that education, the competition is just the same, and many lose out again. IOW, you could educate everyone, and many people would still be unemployed. This is because our systems of production are far too efficient for everyone to have room to have a job.
Only useful education is a STEM degree, but even that is no guarantee of a job nowadays.

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Re: "Deaths of despair"

Post by Rakz » Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:04 pm

Malcolm wrote:
PuerAzaelis wrote:
Malcolm wrote:So you mean all the despair of blacks, latinos, and women amounts to nothing? It is only a failure of American Culture when white men start to off themselves through drugs, alcohol and depression?
Right. The article made it clear that while similar deaths in Hispanic and black communities were decreasing, the aggregate ratio remains far higher than in white communities. But - the headline essentially means that the community with the best mental health is deteriorating. The headline did not say that the communities with the worst mental health were improving. So I'd say the odd focus of the article means that an improvement of mental health in Hispanic or black communities is not characterized as a relevant success of American culture.
Precisely. White women have been offing themselves with drugs and alchohol for decades and decades. Mommy's little helper and all that,
Maybe this has more to do with the failure of second/third wave feminism? Studies have shown that women are much less happier than they were in the 50s. I wonder why.

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Malcolm
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Re: "Deaths of despair"

Post by Malcolm » Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:07 pm

binocular wrote:
Malcolm wrote:I was referring adversarial conditions in contemporary society which render less-educated people less marketable for jobs, etc.
In which case, it is not education itself that provides people with better tools and resources to deal with adversarial conditions. Education is just a means to an end in our particular system.

But education doesn't really solve anything, it just shfits the same problem to another level. Education only offers an advantage to a person as long as enough other people don't get that education. But when more people get that education, the competition is just the same, and many lose out again. IOW, you could educate everyone, and many people would still be unemployed. This is because our systems of production are far too efficient for everyone to have room to have a job.
I have always understood education to mean "being trained how to think." That has been missing in the US educational system for anyone who is not had access to good primary, secondary and higher education. That access is becoming increasingly rare.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Wayfarer
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Re: "Deaths of despair"

Post by Wayfarer » Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:41 pm

Malcolm wrote:So you mean all the despair of blacks, latinos, and women amounts to nothing?
No.
Only practice with no gaining idea ~ Suzuki Roshi

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Malcolm
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Re: "Deaths of despair"

Post by Malcolm » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:34 pm

Rakz wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
PuerAzaelis wrote: Right. The article made it clear that while similar deaths in Hispanic and black communities were decreasing, the aggregate ratio remains far higher than in white communities. But - the headline essentially means that the community with the best mental health is deteriorating. The headline did not say that the communities with the worst mental health were improving. So I'd say the odd focus of the article means that an improvement of mental health in Hispanic or black communities is not characterized as a relevant success of American culture.
Precisely. White women have been offing themselves with drugs and alchohol for decades and decades. Mommy's little helper and all that,
Maybe this has more to do with the failure of second/third wave feminism? Studies have shown that women are much less happier than they were in the 50s. I wonder why.

Really? What studies? By whom?
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Malcolm
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Re: "Deaths of despair"

Post by Malcolm » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:35 pm

Rakz wrote:
binocular wrote:
Malcolm wrote:I was referring adversarial conditions in contemporary society which render less-educated people less marketable for jobs, etc.
In which case, it is not education itself that provides people with better tools and resources to deal with adversarial conditions. Education is just a means to an end in our particular system.

But education doesn't really solve anything, it just shfits the same problem to another level. Education only offers an advantage to a person as long as enough other people don't get that education. But when more people get that education, the competition is just the same, and many lose out again. IOW, you could educate everyone, and many people would still be unemployed. This is because our systems of production are far too efficient for everyone to have room to have a job.
Only useful education is a STEM degree, but even that is no guarantee of a job nowadays.
Total nonsense. We need more liberal arts education, not less.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

Rakz
Posts: 1381
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:04 am

Re: "Deaths of despair"

Post by Rakz » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:34 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Rakz wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Precisely. White women have been offing themselves with drugs and alchohol for decades and decades. Mommy's little helper and all that,
Maybe this has more to do with the failure of second/third wave feminism? Studies have shown that women are much less happier than they were in the 50s. I wonder why.

Really? What studies? By whom?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic ... -ago-.html

Rakz
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Re: "Deaths of despair"

Post by Rakz » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:37 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Rakz wrote:
binocular wrote: In which case, it is not education itself that provides people with better tools and resources to deal with adversarial conditions. Education is just a means to an end in our particular system.

But education doesn't really solve anything, it just shfits the same problem to another level. Education only offers an advantage to a person as long as enough other people don't get that education. But when more people get that education, the competition is just the same, and many lose out again. IOW, you could educate everyone, and many people would still be unemployed. This is because our systems of production are far too efficient for everyone to have room to have a job.
Only useful education is a STEM degree, but even that is no guarantee of a job nowadays.
Total nonsense. We need more liberal arts education, not less.
For what? Job opportunities for a graduate in liberal arts are abysmal.

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