Trump pulls out of Paris accord

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freewheeling
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Re: Trump pulls out of Paris accord

Post by freewheeling » Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:53 am

What about Adani? What's going to happen to The Great Barrier Reef? I think one has to be sceptical!

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Trump pulls out of Paris accord

Post by Kim O'Hara » Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:07 am

freewheeling wrote:What about Adani? What's going to happen to The Great Barrier Reef? I think one has to be sceptical!
Adani? Reef? For those who haven't been aware, Indian mining conglomerate wants to open one of the the world's biggest coalmines in central Queensland and ship it to India via Great Barrier Reef waters to burn it in (mostly) their own power stations.
Their project has been fought every step of the way and delayed year after year and has become an intractable mess for everyone concerned.
Adani bought the mine when coal prices were high, and it was only barely economic then. Prices have fallen steadily since then, and both India and China have committed to reducing coal imports and total coal consumption (i.e. they will use less, and as much of it as possible will be domestic production), so the project doesn't stack up financially any more. At the same time, Adani's other debt has been piling up and potential lenders are walking away.
Meanhwhile, renewables have been going crazy and now Adani is building solar power plants in India. Go figure. :rolleye:
Politically, it's a hot potato: Adani promises jobs and investment so the state and federal governments have (mostly) been supporting it - up to and including promises of cheap loans and royalty holidays - while trying to deny they are acting against environmental concerns and climate change commitments.
The story is ongoing. Today Adani announced 'final approval' of the 'first stage' of its '$16 billion' project but they still haven't got finance for either the mine or the $2 billion railway they need to build to get the coal to the coast. There has been well-informed speculation that Adani are merely trying to talk up the value of the project prior to selling it (to someone really dumb, presumably) to pay off debts elsewhere.

The bottom line is that it is not at all certain to go ahead, ever, and if it does it will be a quarter the size of the original plan and will still lose money. And it may be the last big new coal project anywhere in the world - unless Trump pours US money into a hole in the ground - because they all face similar pressures.

I've been following the story ever since it began because it's right in my region, so I'm not going to revisit all my sources to back up what I've said but http://ieefa.org has all the economic stuff and https://www.facebook.com/GalileeBlockade/ and http://www.stopadani.com/ will give you the activists' side.

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Trump pulls out of Paris accord

Post by Kim O'Hara » Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:43 am

P.S. Here's a good overview, with links to the back story, in the light of today's announcement: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-06/q ... ne/8594060

Far from a final announcement!

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Malcolm
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Re: Trump pulls out of Paris accord

Post by Malcolm » Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:20 am

The Cicada wrote:
Whelp, no more excuses for anti-Trump, bourgeois communist types who hate America at this point.
I am sure all the pro-Trump, lumpen fascist types who hate Americans will very welcome in Russia. Adios!
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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The Cicada
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Re: Trump pulls out of Paris accord

Post by The Cicada » Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:09 am

Malcolm wrote:
The Cicada wrote:
Whelp, no more excuses for anti-Trump, bourgeois communist types who hate America at this point.
I am sure all the pro-Trump, lumpen fascist types who hate Americans will very welcome in Russia. Adios!
Right. Because loving America and hating Americans "isn't" a false dichotomy.

My regards to you and all of the others who dwell in that alternate universe you inhabit which somehow converges with ordinary reality at this spot in the digital ether.

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Trump pulls out of Paris accord

Post by Kim O'Hara » Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:56 am

So who's going to let Trump's agenda stop them moving ahead? Not these two governments:
http://www.iflscience.com/environment/c ... ent-china/

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Re: Trump pulls out of Paris accord

Post by Kim O'Hara » Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:20 pm

Coal really is dead -
‘Coal is dead’ and oil faces ‘peak demand,’ says world’s largest investment group
BlackRock investment group, with $5 trillion in assets, is bullish on electric cars and renewables.

“Coal is dead,” Jim Barry, the global head of BlackRock’s infrastructure investment group, explained in a recent interview.

BlackRock, the world’s largest investment group, with $5 trillion in assets — more than the world’s largest banks — has begun to bet on clean energy. Why? “The thing that has changed fundamentally the whole picture is that renewables have gotten so cheap,” said Barry.

No, the world’s coal plants are not going to all down shut tomorrow, Barry noted to The Australian Financial Review (subscription required). “But anyone who’s looking to take beyond a 10-year view on coal is gambling very significantly.” ...
https://thinkprogress.org/coal-is-dead-692729aa910d
There's a good chart there, too. :smile:

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Malcolm
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Re: Trump pulls out of Paris accord

Post by Malcolm » Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:23 pm

Kim O'Hara wrote:Coal really is dead -
Oil will be soon too.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Trump pulls out of Paris accord

Post by Kim O'Hara » Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:33 am

Malcolm wrote:
Kim O'Hara wrote:Coal really is dead -
Oil will be soon too.
:thanks:
It's interesting but I doubt that it will be a game-changer since electric cars are already well on their way to acceptance.
When the WSJ, of all reactionary institutions, runs a story like this - https://blogs.wsj.com/experts/2017/05/2 ... risky-bet/ - the game must be pretty much over:
Big Oil is betting on plastics. In a world awash with oil, and amid mounting consensus that demand for oil-based transport fuel for automobiles might decline over time, the world’s largest oil companies are counting on a rising need for petrochemicals.
...As many as 3 million barrels a day of increased oil demand globally is expected to come from the chemicals sector between now and 2025 while demand from light-duty vehicles may be neutral to negative over the same period.
...Exxon Mobil announced recently it was writing down its $20 billion Kearl Oil Sands Project, and told shareholders it would be investing a similar amount in refineries, petrochemicals and other projects on the U.S. Gulf Coast. And petrochemicals are now a cornerstone of ExxonMobil’s strategy to alter perceptions that the company is poorly positioned to compete long-term given its high-cost oil and gas reserve assets in the Arctic and Canada.
but - and here's the kicker -
plastics themselves are an environmental problem. Increasingly, countries are looking to develop policies to curb their use. McKinsey suggests that the trend toward plastics recycling and design efficiency that reduces the amount of plastics needed per package could contribute to the phenomenon now referred to as peak oil demand. McKinsey’s peak demand scenario postulates that recycling alone could eliminate one quarter of oil use from plastics.
Many localities have banned the use of plastic bags in retail stores but other, more stringent policies may come to the fore in the future that could make the industry’s bet on petrochemicals riskier than it currently seems.
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Malcolm
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Re: Trump pulls out of Paris accord

Post by Malcolm » Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:52 am

Kim O'Hara wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Kim O'Hara wrote:Coal really is dead -
Oil will be soon too.
:thanks:
It's interesting but I doubt that it will be a game-changer since electric cars are already well on their way to acceptance.
I don't think you understood the point. This electric "battery" is an electrolytic fluid that stores a charge and can be pumped into a car when needed.

That is the game changer. No more six hour recharges, etc.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Trump pulls out of Paris accord

Post by Kim O'Hara » Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:34 am

Malcolm wrote:
Kim O'Hara wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Oil will be soon too.
:thanks:
It's interesting but I doubt that it will be a game-changer since electric cars are already well on their way to acceptance.
I don't think you understood the point. This electric "battery" is an electrolytic fluid that stores a charge and can be pumped into a car when needed.

That is the game changer. No more six hour recharges, etc.
Oh, I understood the point all right. I just didn't - and don't - think it will make an enormous difference because (1) we're going to go to electric cars anyway and (2) the new technology does have some negatives.
You have nailed its (only?) advantage: quicker refuelling. As against that, it requires a network of tankers shuttling fluid around the place, like gas tankers now but moving the fluid both to and from the 'refinery', and a network of 'service stations' fitted with doubled sets of tanks. That's a fairly big cost which would have to be borne, in the end by the consumers. With conventional battery systems, most users (afaik) can charge their cars at home while they sleep, so recharge time is not an issue except for the occasional trip which exceeds battery range. Taxis, delivery trucks, buses, etc, that are on the road for hours every day would get a bigger advantage from the reduced recharge time. We will see what happens.

:namaste:
Kim

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Malcolm
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Re: Trump pulls out of Paris accord

Post by Malcolm » Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:09 pm

Kim O'Hara wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Kim O'Hara wrote: :thanks:
It's interesting but I doubt that it will be a game-changer since electric cars are already well on their way to acceptance.
I don't think you understood the point. This electric "battery" is an electrolytic fluid that stores a charge and can be pumped into a car when needed.

That is the game changer. No more six hour recharges, etc.
Oh, I understood the point all right. I just didn't - and don't - think it will make an enormous difference because (1) we're going to go to electric cars anyway and (2) the new technology does have some negatives.
You have nailed its (only?) advantage: quicker refuelling. As against that, it requires a network of tankers shuttling fluid around the place, like gas tankers now but moving the fluid both to and from the 'refinery', and a network of 'service stations' fitted with doubled sets of tanks.
It also means more flexible storage for wind and solar farms. The solid-battery approach is just not effective and is itself an environmental nightmare. This electrolytic fluid is made of water and ethanol. No lithium, colbalt, or other toxic metals which are a toxic waste issue.

That's a fairly big cost which would have to be borne, in the end by the consumers. With conventional battery systems, most users (afaik) can charge their cars at home while they sleep, so recharge time is not an issue except for the occasional trip which exceeds battery range. Taxis, delivery trucks, buses, etc, that are on the road for hours every day would get a bigger advantage from the reduced recharge time. We will see what happens.
It's a gamechanger. It untethers electric cars to outlets, and that is the point.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Trump pulls out of Paris accord

Post by Kim O'Hara » Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:22 pm

Malcolm wrote:It also means more flexible storage for wind and solar farms. The solid-battery approach is just not effective and is itself an environmental nightmare. This electrolytic fluid is made of water and ethanol.
Yes, it could be useful there, although there are other options for storage at larger scales. There have been several pumped-hydro schemes here recently - here http://reneweconomy.com.au/kidston-pump ... ant-17897/ is one of the new ones - and of course there is the proven molten salt technology https://www.technologyreview.com/s/5251 ... y-storage/. These people http://reneweconomy.com.au/molten-salt- ... ize-99882/ have just modified that lerge-scale technology for small-scale use, so it might replace batteries in people's homes.
I imagine we're going to have all sorts of systems for a while, competing, unless and until one emerges as a clear winner.

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Re: Trump pulls out of Paris accord

Post by Kim O'Hara » Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:13 am

India and France cooperate on going solar - https://www.desmogblog.com/2017/06/09/s ... revolution
On June 3, two days after President Trump announced that the United States would withdraw from the Paris climate accord, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi exchanged a hug with French President Emmanuel Macron during an official visit to Paris. Modi and Macron pledged to achieve emissions reductions beyond their nations’ commitments under the Paris Agreement, and Macron announced he will visit India later this year for a summit on solar power.

For observers who equate India’s energy production with a reliance on coal, this exchange came as a surprise. Modi’s internationally visible pledge would put India three years ahead of schedule to achieve its “Intended Nationally Determined Contribution” to the Paris climate agreement. Instead of shifting to 40 percent renewables by 2030, India now expects to surpass this goal by 2027.

As the United States retreats from international action on climate with a bewildering lurch toward coal, other countries are assuming leadership in the most far-reaching energy transformation since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution. China is cementing its role as a dominant producer of solar panels and wind turbines, and a number of European countries are continuing their slow move away from fossil fuels.

India, meanwhile, is emerging as a major market for renewable energy, laying out aggressive plans for investments in solar and wind. ...
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Re: Trump pulls out of Paris accord

Post by HePo » Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:13 pm

Kim O'Hara wrote:

Coal really is dead -
To save money, Kentucky Coal Museum turns to solar panels

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Trump pulls out of Paris accord

Post by Kim O'Hara » Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:13 am

https://www.axios.com/how-many-american ... 57529.html

Poll https://apnews.com/0b58728504d94e5c9ec3 ... ris-accord by Associated Press and NORC Center for Public Affairs Research: "Less than one-third of Americans support President Donald Trump's decision to withdraw from the Paris climate accord, a new poll shows, and just 18 percent of respondents agree with his claim that pulling out of the international agreement to reduce carbon emissions will help the U.S. economy."

The great divide: "Seventy-eight percent of Democrats think withdrawing from the Paris agreement will hurt the national economy. Among Republicans, just 24 percent think it will hurt, 40 percent think it will have no impact and 34 percent think it will help."
Independents split: "Twenty-five percent support the withdrawal, 36 percent are opposed and 37 percent don't feel strongly one way or the other."
"The poll shows about two-thirds of Americans think that climate change is happening, while only about 1 in 10 think it's not."
:coffee:
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Re: Trump pulls out of Paris accord

Post by gescom » Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:09 am

Image

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Trump pulls out of Paris accord

Post by Kim O'Hara » Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:00 pm

:thumbsup:

:thanks:

Kim

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Re: Trump pulls out of Paris accord

Post by Kim O'Hara » Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:09 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ommitments
Mayors of 7,400 cities vow to meet Obama's climate commitments

‘Global covenant of mayors’ to work together on climate change whether current White House resident agrees or not ...
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