FLOODS

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Mantrik
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FLOODS

Post by Mantrik » Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:29 pm

It is awful that some Americans have died and are homeless, but let's get a sense of perspective here.

Does nobody give a flying firkin that at exactly the same time 1,200 have died in floods in India, with millions homeless?

In Nepal as well, 150 people have been killed and 90,000 homes have been destroyed.

Lives matter, but it seems news media reinforce the Trump 'America First' jingoism which places all lives as irrelevant trash unless they are American.

Wake up Americans - your lives matter, but only as much as the lowliest villager in Bangladesh.

Tell your President to send aid to them as well!
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Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

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jkarlins
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Re: FLOODS

Post by jkarlins » Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:02 pm

Good point.

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Re: FLOODS

Post by Punya » Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:42 pm

Mantrik wrote:It is awful that some Americans have died and are homeless, but let's get a sense of perspective here.

Does nobody give a flying firkin that at exactly the same time 1,200 have died in floods in India, with millions homeless?

In Nepal as well, 150 people have been killed and 90,000 homes have been destroyed.

Lives matter, but it seems news media reinforce the Trump 'America First' jingoism which places all lives as irrelevant trash unless they are American.

Wake up Americans - your lives matter, but only as much as the lowliest villager in Bangladesh.

Tell your President to send aid to them as well!
It's interesting what we choose to care about. In our house we reflected on this in the aftermath of the major Nepal earthquakes. I was really concerned, but nobody else seemed to be. Maybe it's just that to be compassionate about everybody all of the time is just too much for the vast majority of us, and that feeling compassion in some circumstances is better than not feeling it at all. It also seems that we are all country centric and that the media is aware that we just want to know about our own news first. I don't think it only happens in the USA.
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Kim O'Hara
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Re: FLOODS

Post by Kim O'Hara » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:35 pm

Punya wrote:... I don't think it only happens in the USA.
Here in Oz we're seeing at least four times as much coverage of the US flooding as of the Asian flooding, and it's really hard to see any good reason for that. Our connections to the US are strong but mainly cultural, while our connections to the Indian subcontinent are strong via migration and tourism.

Is it that Asia is "just" suffering "routine" monsoonal flooding while Texas is suffering a "freak" storm? (Neither of those views about the events is correct, anyway - Harvey is the new normal with climate change, and the monsoonal floods are far worse than usual for the same reason.)
Or is it simple racism?

:shrug:
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Re: FLOODS

Post by emaho » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:10 pm

Here in Germany even Melania Trump's stilettos are getting more media coverage than the monsoon floodings in India :roll:
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Malcolm
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Re: FLOODS

Post by Malcolm » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:25 am

Kim O'Hara wrote:
Punya wrote:... I don't think it only happens in the USA.
Here in Oz we're seeing at least four times as much coverage of the US flooding as of the Asian flooding, and it's really hard to see any good reason for that.
Racism. Who cares what happens to brown people?
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Re: FLOODS

Post by Strive » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:34 am

Malcolm wrote:
Kim O'Hara wrote:
Punya wrote:... I don't think it only happens in the USA.
Here in Oz we're seeing at least four times as much coverage of the US flooding as of the Asian flooding, and it's really hard to see any good reason for that.
Racism. Who cares what happens to brown people?
smh

if u ever went to houston u will find out it is mostly mexican and black ppl that live there

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Malcolm
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Re: FLOODS

Post by Malcolm » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:35 am

Strive wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Kim O'Hara wrote: Here in Oz we're seeing at least four times as much coverage of the US flooding as of the Asian flooding, and it's really hard to see any good reason for that.
Racism. Who cares what happens to brown people?
smh

if u ever went to houston u will find out it is mostly mexican and black ppl that live there
Yes, and they are the most impacted by the flooding. I wonder why?
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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TharpaChodron
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Re: FLOODS

Post by TharpaChodron » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:48 am

I think its partly our western bias towards places/people we can relate to. Same reason an Isis influenced attack in Manchester is more covered by the press than one in Syria.

Houston is also the fourth largest city in the US, so there's curiosity when the supposed might of western civilization is powerless to nature. There's a perception that the US infrastructure is more capable of handling these things. As well, the US media market is huge and stretches worldwide, so its ability to share and influence mass media is better than say, India's media. There's no revenue in Indian news but tons in US media.

Flooding and mass devastation in Asia is also considered somewhat a regular event, but there is no compassion fatigue because there never was much compassion in the first place, which is wrong, of course.

A storyline being told here by the press is about people of all races in Houston coming together during the floods. Racism and segragation have everything to do with which poorer areas are being hit hardest and who will be able to recover the best. I think these issues make for more interesting news stories. The US captures attention and even focusing on its ugly and positive elements seems to be something many non US citizens take an interest in. Which is ridiculous because there is a whole world out there, there's a lot of other equally important news stories.

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Re: FLOODS

Post by Strive » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:03 am

TharpaChodron wrote: A storyline being told here by the press is about people of all races in Houston coming together during the floods. Racism and segragation have everything to do with which poorer areas are being hit hardest and who will be able to recover the best. I think these issues make for more interesting news stories. .
this is true. my family down there are working hard with the church trying to help out everyone they can. its only when theres a big disaster when ppl of all races come together.

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TharpaChodron
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Re: FLOODS

Post by TharpaChodron » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:15 am

Strive wrote:
TharpaChodron wrote: A storyline being told here by the press is about people of all races in Houston coming together during the floods. Racism and segragation have everything to do with which poorer areas are being hit hardest and who will be able to recover the best. I think these issues make for more interesting news stories. .
this is true. my family down there are working hard with the church trying to help out everyone they can. its only when theres a big disaster when ppl of all races come together.
I graduated high school in Clear Lake, Texas which is south part of Houston, prett near to the gulf. segregation exists in the South, but it's not quite like people think. Most people I believe are basically good and treat each other with respect, Texas is the friendly state, after all.

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Dan74
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Re: FLOODS

Post by Dan74 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:50 am

Things feel stronger when they are closer to home. This isn't racism.
ra¦cism
[ˈreɪsɪz(ə)m]

NOUN
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

Who here would be as emotionally affected by an act of terrorism half way across the globe as by one down the road?

If we imagine our sense of personal identity as an onion, the layer of member of my community/city/citizen of my country is deeper than the layer of human/mammal/living being, isn't it?

What many of us on the Left do, namely label people and speech racist too hastily, in the hope that if we name and shame enough, the problem will just go away, is a wrong approach, I feel. It will just foster resentment and feed these attitudes with people expressing them away from the public eye in increasingly worse ways. It drives the problem underground where it becomes even harder to tackle it. Racism and its much more mildmannered cousin tribalism, are deep human characteristics and have to be dealt with not with violence (whether in act or speech) but in an atmosphere of openness and acceptance, where people can speak out loud about their concerns, share stories, hear each other out and build bridges.

Also many good points made by Tharpa, thank you.

_/|\_
Last edited by Dan74 on Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:09 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Vasana
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Re: FLOODS

Post by Vasana » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:05 am

'Selective empathy' is the norm unfortunately. Selective and geographic empathy is a strange one and I can't work out how much of it is media induced and how much of it is down to some base tribal identification that may have once long ago served a useful evolutionary purpose.

It also seems that western developed countries associate certain countries and areas of the world with permanent hardship and strife so I wonder if that plays a role in desensitizing people from any new events. It's unrealistic to expect people to voice their concerns for each and every tragic world event that happens daily.
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

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Malcolm
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Re: FLOODS

Post by Malcolm » Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:16 pm

Dan74 wrote: What many of us on the Left do, namely label people and speech racist too hastily, in the hope that if we name and shame enough, the problem will just go away, is a wrong approach, I feel. It will just foster resentment and feed these attitudes with people expressing them away from the public eye in increasingly worse ways. It drives the problem underground where it becomes even harder to tackle it. Racism and its much more mildmannered cousin tribalism, are deep human characteristics and have to be dealt with not with violence (whether in act or speech) but in an atmosphere of openness and acceptance, where people can speak out loud about their concerns, share stories, hear each other out and build bridges.
Sorry, not really into giving White Nationalists, Fascists, Nazis, the KKK, and other right wing creeps an opportunity to speak out loud about their concerns, share their stories, build bridges and so on.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Mantrik
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Re: FLOODS

Post by Mantrik » Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:50 pm

My original post was of frustration as an American/Western media focused on one relatively small incident in the huge concurrent global flood disasters.
The term I used was 'jingoism', extrreme nationalism, perhaps a little over the top, but the idea was to jolt people and provide a context to the US story.

No accusation of racism was intended - it would be pretty dim to do so as the US has pretty much all races and creeds as nationals.
'America First' seems, from other posts, to be a pretty frak up concept as vacuous as Trump's skull.
Last edited by Mantrik on Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

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Re: FLOODS

Post by Admin_PC » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:43 pm

Mantrik wrote:My original post was of frustration as an American/Western media focused on one relatively small incident in the huge concurrent global flood disasters.
The term I used was 'jingoism', extrreme nationalism, perhaps a little over the top, but the idea was to jolt people and provide a context to the US story.

No accusation of racism was intended - it would be pretty dim to do so as the US has pretty much all races and creeds as nationals.
'America First' seems, from other posts, to be a pretty frak up concept as vacuous as Trump's skull.
I have tunnel vision regarding this incident because my family & friends are directly involved. I don't know how the rest of the Western media is, but Houston is the 4th largest city in America - set to take over Chicago as #3 in the next 10 years or so. Fewer people may have died, but the sheer number of people affected, the sheer area being affected, and the sheer amount of water being dumped rule this out as a "relatively small incident".
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Mantrik
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Re: FLOODS

Post by Mantrik » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:57 pm

Admin_PC wrote:
Mantrik wrote:My original post was of frustration as an American/Western media focused on one relatively small incident in the huge concurrent global flood disasters.
The term I used was 'jingoism', extrreme nationalism, perhaps a little over the top, but the idea was to jolt people and provide a context to the US story.

No accusation of racism was intended - it would be pretty dim to do so as the US has pretty much all races and creeds as nationals.
'America First' seems, from other posts, to be a pretty frak up concept as vacuous as Trump's skull.
I have tunnel vision regarding this incident because my family & friends are directly involved. I don't know how the rest of the Western media is, but Houston is the 4th largest city in America - set to take over Chicago as #3 in the next 10 years or so. Fewer people may have died, but the sheer number of people affected, the sheer area being affected, and the sheer amount of water being dumped rule this out as a "relatively small incident".
I understand and empathise. But technically, it is relatively tiny, if you read the OP - ''1,200 have died in floods in India, with millions homeless''.
This is more than in a normal monsoon, but even if it were an annual tragedy, the current US incident is indeed relatively small. Assuming each life is equaL, we only have the sheer number of deaths with which to evaluate the seriousness.
Perhaps feeling anxious for your family and friends enables you to better appreciate what others face across the globe, especially as they will probably have no rescue, no food, shelter or rebuilding programme, only diseased corpses to bury.
http://www.khyung.com

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

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Re: FLOODS

Post by Admin_PC » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:59 pm

So deaths are the only measuring stick?

It's not that small of an event environmentally.
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Re: FLOODS

Post by Queequeg » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:15 pm

:soapbox:

"We all ought to feel the suffering of all beings, all the time, everywhere. How dare you have uneven concern for such a trifle!

"Shame! Shame! Shame!

"Are you all heartless?!!!!"

This approach never seems to work.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
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Mantrik
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Re: FLOODS

Post by Mantrik » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:27 pm

Admin_PC wrote:So deaths are the only measuring stick?

It's not that small of an event environmentally.
It is, in comparison with Nepal and India.

And obviosuly it is not a 'number of deaths' measure alone but the consequences of each; that's a cheap shot.

Is the family tragedy of losing a loved one less in India or Nepal? Is the loss of the family income less there than in a hugely wealthy state capable of rebuilding and not leaving people starving and diseased? Is the environment more or less likely to recover quickly in the US than Nepal or India?
Come on, get real. This is precisely what I meant:

https://www.vox.com/world/2017/8/30/162 ... -1000-dead
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Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

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