FLOODS

The best place for discussion of current events. News about Buddhists and Buddhism is particularly welcome.
User avatar
Mantrik
Posts: 584
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:55 pm
Contact:

FLOODS

Post by Mantrik » Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:29 pm

It is awful that some Americans have died and are homeless, but let's get a sense of perspective here.

Does nobody give a flying firkin that at exactly the same time 1,200 have died in floods in India, with millions homeless?

In Nepal as well, 150 people have been killed and 90,000 homes have been destroyed.

Lives matter, but it seems news media reinforce the Trump 'America First' jingoism which places all lives as irrelevant trash unless they are American.

Wake up Americans - your lives matter, but only as much as the lowliest villager in Bangladesh.

Tell your President to send aid to them as well!
http://www.khyung.com

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

User avatar
jkarlins
Posts: 555
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:58 am
Location: Amesbury, MA USA

Re: FLOODS

Post by jkarlins » Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:02 pm

Good point.

Punya
Posts: 1148
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:50 pm

Re: FLOODS

Post by Punya » Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:42 pm

Mantrik wrote:It is awful that some Americans have died and are homeless, but let's get a sense of perspective here.

Does nobody give a flying firkin that at exactly the same time 1,200 have died in floods in India, with millions homeless?

In Nepal as well, 150 people have been killed and 90,000 homes have been destroyed.

Lives matter, but it seems news media reinforce the Trump 'America First' jingoism which places all lives as irrelevant trash unless they are American.

Wake up Americans - your lives matter, but only as much as the lowliest villager in Bangladesh.

Tell your President to send aid to them as well!
It's interesting what we choose to care about. In our house we reflected on this in the aftermath of the major Nepal earthquakes. I was really concerned, but nobody else seemed to be. Maybe it's just that to be compassionate about everybody all of the time is just too much for the vast majority of us, and that feeling compassion in some circumstances is better than not feeling it at all. It also seems that we are all country centric and that the media is aware that we just want to know about our own news first. I don't think it only happens in the USA.
Just as the trunk of an ordinary tree
Lying in the forests of the Malaya mountains
Absorbs the perfume of sandal from the moist leaves and branches
So you come to resemble who whomever you follow.

~Words of My Perfect Teacher

User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Former staff member
Posts: 3521
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:09 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: FLOODS

Post by Kim O'Hara » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:35 pm

Punya wrote:... I don't think it only happens in the USA.
Here in Oz we're seeing at least four times as much coverage of the US flooding as of the Asian flooding, and it's really hard to see any good reason for that. Our connections to the US are strong but mainly cultural, while our connections to the Indian subcontinent are strong via migration and tourism.

Is it that Asia is "just" suffering "routine" monsoonal flooding while Texas is suffering a "freak" storm? (Neither of those views about the events is correct, anyway - Harvey is the new normal with climate change, and the monsoonal floods are far worse than usual for the same reason.)
Or is it simple racism?

:shrug:
Kim

emaho
Posts: 792
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 8:33 pm

Re: FLOODS

Post by emaho » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:10 pm

Here in Germany even Melania Trump's stilettos are getting more media coverage than the monsoon floodings in India :roll:
"Do yourself a favor and get out of Samsara!" Dudjom Rinpoche, Counsels From My Heart

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 25526
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: FLOODS

Post by Malcolm » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:25 am

Kim O'Hara wrote:
Punya wrote:... I don't think it only happens in the USA.
Here in Oz we're seeing at least four times as much coverage of the US flooding as of the Asian flooding, and it's really hard to see any good reason for that.
Racism. Who cares what happens to brown people?
Atikosha
Tibetan Medicine Blog
Sudarsana Mandala, Tibetan Medicine and Herbs
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

Strive
Posts: 260
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:24 pm

Re: FLOODS

Post by Strive » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:34 am

Malcolm wrote:
Kim O'Hara wrote:
Punya wrote:... I don't think it only happens in the USA.
Here in Oz we're seeing at least four times as much coverage of the US flooding as of the Asian flooding, and it's really hard to see any good reason for that.
Racism. Who cares what happens to brown people?
smh

if u ever went to houston u will find out it is mostly mexican and black ppl that live there

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 25526
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: FLOODS

Post by Malcolm » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:35 am

Strive wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Kim O'Hara wrote: Here in Oz we're seeing at least four times as much coverage of the US flooding as of the Asian flooding, and it's really hard to see any good reason for that.
Racism. Who cares what happens to brown people?
smh

if u ever went to houston u will find out it is mostly mexican and black ppl that live there
Yes, and they are the most impacted by the flooding. I wonder why?
Atikosha
Tibetan Medicine Blog
Sudarsana Mandala, Tibetan Medicine and Herbs
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

User avatar
TharpaChodron
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:13 am
Location: California

Re: FLOODS

Post by TharpaChodron » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:48 am

I think its partly our western bias towards places/people we can relate to. Same reason an Isis influenced attack in Manchester is more covered by the press than one in Syria.

Houston is also the fourth largest city in the US, so there's curiosity when the supposed might of western civilization is powerless to nature. There's a perception that the US infrastructure is more capable of handling these things. As well, the US media market is huge and stretches worldwide, so its ability to share and influence mass media is better than say, India's media. There's no revenue in Indian news but tons in US media.

Flooding and mass devastation in Asia is also considered somewhat a regular event, but there is no compassion fatigue because there never was much compassion in the first place, which is wrong, of course.

A storyline being told here by the press is about people of all races in Houston coming together during the floods. Racism and segragation have everything to do with which poorer areas are being hit hardest and who will be able to recover the best. I think these issues make for more interesting news stories. The US captures attention and even focusing on its ugly and positive elements seems to be something many non US citizens take an interest in. Which is ridiculous because there is a whole world out there, there's a lot of other equally important news stories.

Strive
Posts: 260
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:24 pm

Re: FLOODS

Post by Strive » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:03 am

TharpaChodron wrote: A storyline being told here by the press is about people of all races in Houston coming together during the floods. Racism and segragation have everything to do with which poorer areas are being hit hardest and who will be able to recover the best. I think these issues make for more interesting news stories. .
this is true. my family down there are working hard with the church trying to help out everyone they can. its only when theres a big disaster when ppl of all races come together.

User avatar
TharpaChodron
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:13 am
Location: California

Re: FLOODS

Post by TharpaChodron » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:15 am

Strive wrote:
TharpaChodron wrote: A storyline being told here by the press is about people of all races in Houston coming together during the floods. Racism and segragation have everything to do with which poorer areas are being hit hardest and who will be able to recover the best. I think these issues make for more interesting news stories. .
this is true. my family down there are working hard with the church trying to help out everyone they can. its only when theres a big disaster when ppl of all races come together.
I graduated high school in Clear Lake, Texas which is south part of Houston, prett near to the gulf. segregation exists in the South, but it's not quite like people think. Most people I believe are basically good and treat each other with respect, Texas is the friendly state, after all.

User avatar
Dan74
Founding Member
Posts: 2232
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:59 pm
Location: Lyss, Switzerland

Re: FLOODS

Post by Dan74 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:50 am

Things feel stronger when they are closer to home. This isn't racism.
ra¦cism
[ˈreɪsɪz(ə)m]

NOUN
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

Who here would be as emotionally affected by an act of terrorism half way across the globe as by one down the road?

If we imagine our sense of personal identity as an onion, the layer of member of my community/city/citizen of my country is deeper than the layer of human/mammal/living being, isn't it?

What many of us on the Left do, namely label people and speech racist too hastily, in the hope that if we name and shame enough, the problem will just go away, is a wrong approach, I feel. It will just foster resentment and feed these attitudes with people expressing them away from the public eye in increasingly worse ways. It drives the problem underground where it becomes even harder to tackle it. Racism and its much more mildmannered cousin tribalism, are deep human characteristics and have to be dealt with not with violence (whether in act or speech) but in an atmosphere of openness and acceptance, where people can speak out loud about their concerns, share stories, hear each other out and build bridges.

Also many good points made by Tharpa, thank you.

_/|\_
Last edited by Dan74 on Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:09 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Vasana
Posts: 1376
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:22 am

Re: FLOODS

Post by Vasana » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:05 am

'Selective empathy' is the norm unfortunately. Selective and geographic empathy is a strange one and I can't work out how much of it is media induced and how much of it is down to some base tribal identification that may have once long ago served a useful evolutionary purpose.

It also seems that western developed countries associate certain countries and areas of the world with permanent hardship and strife so I wonder if that plays a role in desensitizing people from any new events. It's unrealistic to expect people to voice their concerns for each and every tragic world event that happens daily.
"The changing cycle of joy and sorrow, like the changing seasons –
As a time of suffering will surely come around to me,
May I truly practice the sublime teachings."
- Dudjom Rinpoche

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 25526
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: FLOODS

Post by Malcolm » Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:16 pm

Dan74 wrote: What many of us on the Left do, namely label people and speech racist too hastily, in the hope that if we name and shame enough, the problem will just go away, is a wrong approach, I feel. It will just foster resentment and feed these attitudes with people expressing them away from the public eye in increasingly worse ways. It drives the problem underground where it becomes even harder to tackle it. Racism and its much more mildmannered cousin tribalism, are deep human characteristics and have to be dealt with not with violence (whether in act or speech) but in an atmosphere of openness and acceptance, where people can speak out loud about their concerns, share stories, hear each other out and build bridges.
Sorry, not really into giving White Nationalists, Fascists, Nazis, the KKK, and other right wing creeps an opportunity to speak out loud about their concerns, share their stories, build bridges and so on.
Atikosha
Tibetan Medicine Blog
Sudarsana Mandala, Tibetan Medicine and Herbs
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

User avatar
Mantrik
Posts: 584
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:55 pm
Contact:

Re: FLOODS

Post by Mantrik » Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:50 pm

My original post was of frustration as an American/Western media focused on one relatively small incident in the huge concurrent global flood disasters.
The term I used was 'jingoism', extrreme nationalism, perhaps a little over the top, but the idea was to jolt people and provide a context to the US story.

No accusation of racism was intended - it would be pretty dim to do so as the US has pretty much all races and creeds as nationals.
'America First' seems, from other posts, to be a pretty frak up concept as vacuous as Trump's skull.
Last edited by Mantrik on Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.khyung.com

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

User avatar
Admin_PC
Site Admin
Posts: 3960
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:17 pm
Location: Texas, USA

Re: FLOODS

Post by Admin_PC » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:43 pm

Mantrik wrote:My original post was of frustration as an American/Western media focused on one relatively small incident in the huge concurrent global flood disasters.
The term I used was 'jingoism', extrreme nationalism, perhaps a little over the top, but the idea was to jolt people and provide a context to the US story.

No accusation of racism was intended - it would be pretty dim to do so as the US has pretty much all races and creeds as nationals.
'America First' seems, from other posts, to be a pretty frak up concept as vacuous as Trump's skull.
I have tunnel vision regarding this incident because my family & friends are directly involved. I don't know how the rest of the Western media is, but Houston is the 4th largest city in America - set to take over Chicago as #3 in the next 10 years or so. Fewer people may have died, but the sheer number of people affected, the sheer area being affected, and the sheer amount of water being dumped rule this out as a "relatively small incident".
月影の いたらぬ里は なけれども 眺むる人の 心にぞすむ
法然上人

User avatar
Mantrik
Posts: 584
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:55 pm
Contact:

Re: FLOODS

Post by Mantrik » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:57 pm

Admin_PC wrote:
Mantrik wrote:My original post was of frustration as an American/Western media focused on one relatively small incident in the huge concurrent global flood disasters.
The term I used was 'jingoism', extrreme nationalism, perhaps a little over the top, but the idea was to jolt people and provide a context to the US story.

No accusation of racism was intended - it would be pretty dim to do so as the US has pretty much all races and creeds as nationals.
'America First' seems, from other posts, to be a pretty frak up concept as vacuous as Trump's skull.
I have tunnel vision regarding this incident because my family & friends are directly involved. I don't know how the rest of the Western media is, but Houston is the 4th largest city in America - set to take over Chicago as #3 in the next 10 years or so. Fewer people may have died, but the sheer number of people affected, the sheer area being affected, and the sheer amount of water being dumped rule this out as a "relatively small incident".
I understand and empathise. But technically, it is relatively tiny, if you read the OP - ''1,200 have died in floods in India, with millions homeless''.
This is more than in a normal monsoon, but even if it were an annual tragedy, the current US incident is indeed relatively small. Assuming each life is equaL, we only have the sheer number of deaths with which to evaluate the seriousness.
Perhaps feeling anxious for your family and friends enables you to better appreciate what others face across the globe, especially as they will probably have no rescue, no food, shelter or rebuilding programme, only diseased corpses to bury.
http://www.khyung.com

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

User avatar
Admin_PC
Site Admin
Posts: 3960
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:17 pm
Location: Texas, USA

Re: FLOODS

Post by Admin_PC » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:59 pm

So deaths are the only measuring stick?

It's not that small of an event environmentally.
月影の いたらぬ里は なけれども 眺むる人の 心にぞすむ
法然上人

User avatar
Queequeg
Global Moderator
Posts: 4356
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: FLOODS

Post by Queequeg » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:15 pm

:soapbox:

"We all ought to feel the suffering of all beings, all the time, everywhere. How dare you have uneven concern for such a trifle!

"Shame! Shame! Shame!

"Are you all heartless?!!!!"

This approach never seems to work.
“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
-Henry Miller

"Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in.
Great for solving problems, after it creates the problems."
-Modest Mouse

"Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world!"
-The Grateful Dead

User avatar
Mantrik
Posts: 584
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:55 pm
Contact:

Re: FLOODS

Post by Mantrik » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:27 pm

Admin_PC wrote:So deaths are the only measuring stick?

It's not that small of an event environmentally.
It is, in comparison with Nepal and India.

And obviosuly it is not a 'number of deaths' measure alone but the consequences of each; that's a cheap shot.

Is the family tragedy of losing a loved one less in India or Nepal? Is the loss of the family income less there than in a hugely wealthy state capable of rebuilding and not leaving people starving and diseased? Is the environment more or less likely to recover quickly in the US than Nepal or India?
Come on, get real. This is precisely what I meant:

https://www.vox.com/world/2017/8/30/162 ... -1000-dead
http://www.khyung.com

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: treehuggingoctopus and 24 guests