deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Virgo » Sat May 19, 2018 12:18 am

Mantrik wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:23 pm
Image
:thumbsup: Great share.

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Mantrik » Sat May 19, 2018 7:39 am

Virgo wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 11:54 pm

No kid in the US even feels safe going to school right now.

Kevin...
The interviewed a girls at the Santa fe school and asked her if she was surprised at the shooting:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... -interview
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sat May 19, 2018 8:04 am

Much like terrorism, these events make people feel they are in much more danger than they likely are.

I get that people are scared, but the idea that "no kid is safe anywhere" is just fear mongering. We still live in an incredibly safe time, and by and large kids growing up today in the US are quite safe, even with these horrific events - which surely need real solutions. There is already enough of a backlash and plans to further militarize schools, and even further limit the sort of environment that kids are educated in. This is certainly a crisis of sorts, but lets be intelligent about our approach. Much of the media coverage surrounding these events is tailored simply to whip up panic, not to further the public conversation.
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Dan74 » Sat May 19, 2018 10:00 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 8:04 am
Much like terrorism, these events make people feel they are in much more danger than they likely are.

I get that people are scared, but the idea that "no kid is safe anywhere" is just fear mongering. We still live in an incredibly safe time, and by and large kids growing up today in the US are quite safe, even with these horrific events - which surely need real solutions. There is already enough of a backlash and plans to further militarize schools, and even further limit the sort of environment that kids are educated in. This is certainly a crisis of sorts, but lets be intelligent about our approach. Much of the media coverage surrounding these events is tailored simply to whip up panic, not to further the public conversation.
:good:

But to repeat, 10 kids' lives cut short is a tragedy and a slow careful look at the causes and solutions with an open heart/mind unbeholden to special interests and lobby groups, is surely long overdue (by the decision-makers).

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by shaunc » Sat May 19, 2018 1:29 pm

These type of things have been happening in the U.S. for quite a while now. I'm sure that they've looked at other countries and have seen how they've dealt with the same problem. However I've come to the conclusion that tightening up firearm laws in the U.S. is flogging a dead horse. It's their problem and they either have to fix it themselves or learn to live with it.

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Wicked Yeshe » Sat May 19, 2018 1:56 pm

So tragic. May the victims find peace.

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Virgo » Sat May 19, 2018 2:13 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 8:04 am


I get that people are scared, but the idea that "no kid is safe anywhere" is just fear mongering.
Hi Johnny. To be fair, I said "no kid feels safe at school". Can you really blame them? Being that there is on average one school shooting per week in the US?

I will provide some stats when I get home.

All the best,

Kevin...
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Virgo » Sat May 19, 2018 3:09 pm

Here are the stats. There has been on average one school shooting per week this year (22 total as of today May 19'th):

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/02/us/schoo ... index.html

The following article explains that there is an average of 10 per year since Columbine with 11 so far this year, less than 3 months into the year. That was as of March 21'st.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics ... fa313c0515

We have had 11 more this year since that was written, so we have jumped from 11 this year as of March 21'st to 22 as of May 19'th, 2018.

That is not fearmongering.

Kevin...
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sat May 19, 2018 5:49 pm

Virgo wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 2:13 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 8:04 am


I get that people are scared, but the idea that "no kid is safe anywhere" is just fear mongering.
Hi Johnny. To be fair, I said "no kid feels safe at school". Can you really blame them? Being that there is on average one school shooting per week in the US?

I will provide some stats when I get home.

All the best,

Kevin...
As the saying goes ' feelings arent facts'...so yeah I get it, but I find the hyperbole counter productive.

Even with your stats, these are relatively uncommon events - thats part of what makes them newsworthy.
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Virgo » Sat May 19, 2018 6:16 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Even with your stats, these are relatively uncommon events - thats part of what makes them newsworthy.
You're right, they are relatively uncommon events... in Australia, for example, where they had an extremely successful firearm ban and buyback, and where gun deaths dropped dramatically.

In the US, however, they are now happening once per week as the statistics show. I do not see how that can be considered uncommon.

Kevin...
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Grigoris » Sat May 19, 2018 7:25 pm

One school shooting is already one school shooting too many as far as I am concerned. Some here may be happy to give some leeway and say that it is okay for one school shooting a month, for example, but I really fail to see the logic behind this thinking.

And it is not just a case of instituting buy-backs and banning (though that would be a good start, right now). Here in Greece it is actually really easy to buy weapons of all types (lots of illegal weapons come in from Bulgaria and Albania) and yet NO mass shootings. NO school shootings.
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Mantrik » Sat May 19, 2018 7:31 pm

It is said that more people have died as a result of US school shootings than on active service in the US military in 2018.

It is interesting to ponder if people are safer in the US military than in US schools.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.3997382
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Mantrik » Sat May 19, 2018 8:34 pm

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Virgo » Sat May 19, 2018 8:35 pm



Kevin...
ངོ་རང་ཐོག་ཏུ་སྤྲད། །
ཐག་གཅིག་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅད། །
གདེང་གྲོལ་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅའ། །


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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Mantrik » Sat May 19, 2018 8:57 pm

Virgo wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 8:35 pm


Kevin...
Great lyrics.
http://www.khyung.com

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Virgo » Sat May 19, 2018 9:12 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 8:57 pm
Great lyrics.
Yes, from a truly iconic band.

Kevin
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by The Cicada » Sun May 20, 2018 1:41 am

Grigoris wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 7:25 pm
One school shooting is already one school shooting too many as far as I am concerned. Some here may be happy to give some leeway and say that it is okay for one school shooting a month, for example, but I really fail to see the logic behind this thinking.

And it is not just a case of instituting buy-backs and banning (though that would be a good start, right now). Here in Greece it is actually really easy to buy weapons of all types (lots of illegal weapons come in from Bulgaria and Albania) and yet NO mass shootings. NO school shootings.
I dunno, Greg. I mean, it seems like countries with greater gun constraints also have more constraints on other things, too. Aussies have more constraints on both guns and on the internet, for example. I think that essentially equals less freedom. Young people weren't choosing to lash out in these bizarre ways until recently. What we ultimately have in the US is a sociological problem.

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sun May 20, 2018 2:38 am

Virgo wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 6:16 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Even with your stats, these are relatively uncommon events - thats part of what makes them newsworthy.
You're right, they are relatively uncommon events... in Australia, for example, where they had an extremely successful firearm ban and buyback, and where gun deaths dropped dramatically.

In the US, however, they are now happening once per week as the statistics show. I do not see how that can be considered uncommon.

Kevin...
This really shouldn't be controversial. Most school kids in school in the US are safe, even with these events. If you are that worried about infrequent events like (mass) school shootings are actually putting all kids in danger all the time, you should also worry about terrorism in the same way, as these sorts of events are equally infrequent. Secondly, while it is regrettable that anyone is shot in schools, conflating any event with a shooting in a school with an intentional mass shooting is incredibly silly. If only because these events that you are reacting to - mass shootings - are actually a small sliver of all gun crime, a very small sliver. Lots of school shootings are in poor neighborhoods, and poor kids getting shot, kind of pisses me off that this is now part of someone's statistic in a conversation about how No Kid Is Safe when where I grew up, kids got shot all the time, and no one gave a shit. All the sudden now that mass shootings are happening "no one is safe".

It is terrible, and in some sense "one is too many" as Greg said, however, painting an extreme picture about all kids being in danger is a really terrible way to approach the problem, not grounded in reality. Do you realize how many schools there are in this country? And no the statistics do not show they are "now happening once per week", that is a bit of an extrapolation. The result of hand-wringing and exaggeration in public health/safety crises is rarely beneficial.

This isn't an anti gun control thing btw, I'm just tired of the hyperbole - which so far seems entirely unproductive.
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Virgo » Sun May 20, 2018 2:45 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 2:38 am
And no the statistics do not show they are "now happening once per week", that is a bit of an extrapolation.
Which one is an extrapolation?

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/02/us/schoo ... index.html

May 18: Santa Fe, Texas
At least eight people -- and as many as 10 -- were killed in a shooting at Santa Fe High School.
May 11: Palmdale, California

A 14-year-old boy went to Highland High, his former school, and began shooting a semiautomatic rifle shortly before classes were scheduled to begin, officials said. A 15-year-old boy was struck in the shoulder.
April 20: Ocala, Florida

A 17-year-old student at Forest High School was shot in the ankle shortly before students were to walk out as part of a national protest against gun violence.. The suspect was a 19-year-old former student.
April 12: Raytown, Missouri

A man was shot in the stomach in the parking lot of Raytown South Middle School during a track meet.
April 9: Gloversville, New York

A student shot another student with a BB gun in Gloversville Middle School.
March 20: Lexington Park, Maryland

An armed student shot two others at Great Mills High School before a school resource officer fired a round at the shooter. The shooter was killed. One of the students, 16-year-old girl Jaelynn Willey, was taken off life support two days later.
March 13: Seaside, California

A teacher accidentally discharged a gun during a public safety class at Seaside High School, injuring a student.
March 8: Mobile, Alabama

One person was hospitalized after a shooting at an apartment building on the campus of the University of South Alabama.
March 7: Birmingham, Alabama

One student was killed and another critically wounded after an accidental shooting during dismissal time at Huffman High School. Police wouldn't elaborate further.

March 7: Jackson, Mississippi
A student was shot inside a dormitory at Jackson State University. His injuries were not life-threatening.
March 2: Mount Pleasant, Michigan

Two people were shot to death at a dormitory on the campus of Central Michigan University. The victims were not students and police think the incident stemmed from a domestic situation.
February 27: Norfolk, Virginia

A student at Norfolk State University was shot from an adjacent dorm room while he was doing homework. He was not seriously injured.
February 27: Itta Bena, Mississippi

A person was shot in a rec center at Mississippi Valley State University. Police said the person was not a student and the injury was not life-threatening.

February 24: Savannah, Georgia
A person was shot on the campus of Savannah State University and taken to a nearby hospital where he later died. Neither the victim nor the shooter were university students, the college said.

February 14: Parkland, Florida
A 19-year-old man gunned down students and staff with a rifle at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, slaughtering at least 17 unsuspecting students and adults. The shooter, Nikolas Cruz, had been expelled from the high school over disciplinary problems, officials said.

February 9: Nashville
A high school student was shot five times in the parking lot of Pearl-Cohn High School.

February 5: Oxon Hill, Maryland
A high school student was shot in the parking lot of Oxon Hill High. The victim was treated and later released. Police arrested two teens and said they are acquaintances of the victim.

February 1: Los Angeles
A 15-year-old boy was shot in the head and a 15-year-old girl shot in the wrist at Sal Castro Middle School in Los Angeles, officials said. Two other students were grazed by bullets. A 12-year-old girl was booked for negligent discharge of a firearm in that shooting, which was considered "unintentional," Los Angeles police said.

January 31: Philadelphia
A fight led to a shooting in the parking lot of Lincoln High School, fatally wounding a 32-year-old man.

January 23: Benton, Kentucky
A 15-year-old student shot 16 people -- killing two other 15-year-olds -- at Marshall County High School, authorities said. The student faces two charges of murder and 12 counts of first degree assault.

January 22: Italy, Texas
A 15-year-old student was wounded in a shooting at a high school in Italy, Texas, authorities said. The suspect, also 15, was quickly apprehended.

January 20: Winston Salem, North Carolina
A Winston-Salem State University football player, Najee Ali Baker, was shot to death at a party on the campus of Wake Forest University.

Kevin...
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sun May 20, 2018 2:48 am

Virgo wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 2:45 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 2:38 am
And no the statistics do not show they are "now happening once per week", that is a bit of an extrapolation.
Which one is an extrapolation?

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/02/us/schoo ... index.html

May 18: Santa Fe, Texas
At least eight people -- and as many as 10 -- were killed in a shooting at Santa Fe High School.
May 11: Palmdale, California
A 14-year-old boy went to Highland High, his former school, and began shooting a semiautomatic rifle shortly before classes were scheduled to begin, officials said. A 15-year-old boy was struck in the shoulder.
April 20: Ocala, Florida
A 17-year-old student at Forest High School was shot in the ankle shortly before students were to walk out as part of a national protest against gun violence.. The suspect was a 19-year-old former student.
April 12: Raytown, Missouri
A man was shot in the stomach in the parking lot of Raytown South Middle School during a track meet.
April 9: Gloversville, New York
A student shot another student with a BB gun in Gloversville Middle School.
March 20: Lexington Park, Maryland

An armed student shot two others at Great Mills High School before a school resource officer fired a round at the shooter. The shooter was killed. One of the students, 16-year-old girl Jaelynn Willey, was taken off life support two days later.
March 13: Seaside, California
A teacher accidentally discharged a gun during a public safety class at Seaside High School, injuring a student.
March 8: Mobile, Alabama
One person was hospitalized after a shooting at an apartment building on the campus of the University of South Alabama.
March 7: Birmingham, Alabama
One student was killed and another critically wounded after an accidental shooting during dismissal time at Huffman High School. Police wouldn't elaborate further.
March 7: Jackson, Mississippi
A student was shot inside a dormitory at Jackson State University. His injuries were not life-threatening.
March 2: Mount Pleasant, Michigan
Two people were shot to death at a dormitory on the campus of Central Michigan University. The victims were not students and police think the incident stemmed from a domestic situation.
February 27: Norfolk, Virginia
A student at Norfolk State University was shot from an adjacent dorm room while he was doing homework. He was not seriously injured.
February 27: Itta Bena, Mississippi

A person was shot in a rec center at Mississippi Valley State University. Police said the person was not a student and the injury was not life-threatening.
February 24: Savannah, Georgia
A person was shot on the campus of Savannah State University and taken to a nearby hospital where he later died. Neither the victim nor the shooter were university students, the college said.
February 14: Parkland, Florida
A 19-year-old man gunned down students and staff with a rifle at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, slaughtering at least 17 unsuspecting students and adults. The shooter, Nikolas Cruz, had been expelled from the high school over disciplinary problems, officials said.
February 9: Nashville
A high school student was shot five times in the parking lot of Pearl-Cohn High School.
February 5: Oxon Hill, Maryland
A high school student was shot in the parking lot of Oxon Hill High. The victim was treated and later released. Police arrested two teens and said they are acquaintances of the victim.
February 1: Los Angeles
A 15-year-old boy was shot in the head and a 15-year-old girl shot in the wrist at Sal Castro Middle School in Los Angeles, officials said. Two other students were grazed by bullets. A 12-year-old girl was booked for negligent discharge of a firearm in that shooting, which was considered "unintentional," Los Angeles police said.
January 31: Philadelphia
A fight led to a shooting in the parking lot of Lincoln High School, fatally wounding a 32-year-old man.
January 23: Benton, Kentucky

A 15-year-old student shot 16 people -- killing two other 15-year-olds -- at Marshall County High School, authorities said. The student faces two charges of murder and 12 counts of first degree assault.
January 22: Italy, Texas
A 15-year-old student was wounded in a shooting at a high school in Italy, Texas, authorities said. The suspect, also 15, was quickly apprehended.
January 20: Winston Salem, North Carolina
A Winston-Salem State University football player, Najee Ali Baker, was shot to death at a party on the campus of Wake Forest University.

Kevin...

None of this proves that kids are in constant danger in America, all it shows is a very small sample over a relatively short period. What do you think the above proves, and can you please address my point about not conflating all school shootings with the mass ones you are specifically reacting to? You can't accurately say "they are happening once a week" when referring to these mass shooting events, then including stuff like shootings outside a high school that end up with a 32 year old getting hit.

This is all a terrible problem, it's really regrettable that it took these mass shootings for people to realize it, and suddenly freak out about it. Poor kids have been dying for years and no one even gave it a second thought.
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