Grigoris wrote: ↑
Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:23 am
Dan74 wrote: ↑
Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:06 am
We were talking about individuals with questionable beliefs, now you counter by talking about individuas who committed horrific actions. This is called Category Error , one of logical fallacies, I believe.
The Chicago School economic theorists didn't commit horrific actions.
Ayn Rand didn't commit any atrocities.
The members of the white power skinhead band Skrewdriver didn't kill anybody either.
All of them, in one way or another, contributed to the development of Western culture and society. Credit where credit is due.
But even continuing with this, would you tell off the Germans for driving on the roads built under Hitler?
Ever tried to avoid driving on autobahn in Germany? Not really an option.
Sgould Moscovites demolish the Metro brutally built by Stalin with prison labour?
Ever tried to live in a sprawling metropolis, without a car and without using public transport?
And if farmers in Cambodia actually learnt some good things from Pol Pot regime, should they not use it?
I was being a dick with this one.
You see, use of these things is unavoidable, like the use of money for exchange. But I don't have to listen to racist Oi music, I don't have to read "Atlas Shrugged" and I don't have to study Keynesian economics.
So now who is engaging in Category Error logical flaws?
But you are also missing a vital point: the metro and the autobahn (like guns) were developed and built for a specific purpose and this specific purpose is tied directly to a certain ideology. All this time we thought we were using them for their utility, but (unbeknown to us) their utility also fosters a certain ideology. We complain about the specter of fascism in Europe, but actually it is not a specter, it has been there the whole time in our day to day lives and now, when it is "needed", it has popped it's ugly head out from behind the mask.
The ideal of speed and perpetual motion (for example) is a Futurist ideal, and now (70 years later) it has decided to drop the mask. The idea of "might is right" (he who has the bigger gun has the power) is an individualist creed with deep roots in Social Darwinism. Etc...
PS As a Buddhist you should know that all horrific acts start as questionable beliefs.
Lots of new issues, you raise here, Greg. I don't know what insidious agenda Adams is promoting with his Dilbert comics. If anything, it sheds a witty look at the absurdities of the management culture and the oddities of the engineering culture with an occasional look askance at broader madness of our contemporary world.
As for roads and cars, of course everyone had an agenda, but it doesn't mean that the agenda remains as a defining characteristic of our infrastructure, or if it does, you haven't yet shown this. Seems like a long bow to me, but I am interested to see if you can expand on this.
In any case, my original point had a fairly limited ambit - flawed people are capable of producing worthwhile things and it is not wrong to give credit when credit is due. That said, it is also possible to point out that we are not supporting Trump when we are enjoying Dilbert and we are not supporting racism, when we quote Hume's other works, etc etc.
Where we draw the line is a subtler issue. Do we boycott Woody Allan, Roman Polanski and Klaus Kinski films as a stance against pedophilia? Do you even boycott any little shop that supports Trump? I think we should tease out what kind of a struggle is both right and relevant in this day and age.