deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

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TharpaChodron
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by TharpaChodron » Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:52 am

arch wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:59 am
So inspiring!

At our last safety training, a scenario of a shooter on the bus was addressed. Two training videos were shown. In the first, the kid started shooting, the bus driver yelled "Run!", then bolted out the door. The second endorsed video showed him running down the aisle to fight the shooter.

Most likely any HS kid could whip my butt. Unless the shooter was a slow reloader, the driver probably is not going to make it down the narrow aisle, facing direct fire, over bodies, etc., to get the guy. (I am in shape, but the majority of drivers are obese and would have to locomote crab-wise.)

I would run out and go to the back emergency door to try to surprise the shooter. Climbing up would be problematic for me. This is my own solution.
Inspiring indeed. And how ironic, tomorrow, February 26 is the official honorary day in Chowchilla for Ed Ray, the bus driver who saved those children's lives. :heart:

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TharpaChodron
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by TharpaChodron » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:07 am

justsit wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:12 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:17 pm
Again, if people could sue gun manufacturers the way Big Tobacco was sued, my guess is we either wouldn't be having this conversation, or we'd be having a much milder version of it.
Agree. Up until now, manufacturers have gotten a pass on any sort of liability, and other corporations have basically turned a blind eye. Now we a have #BoycottNRA rippling the waters, some big companies are eliminating their NRA member discount plans and cutting ties with the organization.

Yesterday Bank of America said it’s reexamining its relationships with gun manufacturers in the wake of widespread boycotts:

“We are joining other companies in our industry to examine what we can do to help end the tragedy of mass shootings, and an immediate step we’re taking is to engage the limited number of clients we have that manufacture assault weapons for non-military use to understand what they can contribute to this shared responsibility,” a ... spokesperson said. The financial giant previously extended a $40 million line of credit to the Ruger firearm company.
https://thinkprogress.org/bank-of-ameri ... a547dc085/

This could signal a major shift in attitude of the financial sector, and could obviously have serious financial implications for gun makers. Could be a big step in the right direction.
It's happening.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/02/24/b ... from=promo

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justsit
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by justsit » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:37 am

TharpaChodron wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:07 am
...
It's happening.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/02/24/b ... from=promo
I sincerely hope so, but am only very, very cautiously optimistic.

Per the NRA playbook, they typically lay low for a week or two after a massacre - I use the term deliberately, as a "shooting" conveniently removes the stink of death - then start mobilizing the membership after media attention has moved on.

Perhaps this time if the pressure doesn't let up, we may see some substantive change.

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Wayfarer » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:05 am

I heard part of the angry rant, er, media conference by an NRA talking head, who went on about ‘the freedom that makes America great’. With no acknowledgement of the more than 15,000 gunshot victims (leaving aside suicides) that occur every year. What is ‘great’ about that? Why is that ‘freedom’? People have got to start calling this out for what it is, namely, a lie.
Only practice with no gaining idea ~ Suzuki-roshi

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by shaunc » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:11 am

There's a bit of a joke getting around on Facebook at the moment.
In Australia shark attacks are at a record high so they put nets around the beaches to keep the swimmers safe.
In the U.S.A. they gave all of the swimmers a shark each to keep them safe.

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:12 am

Wayfarer wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:05 am
I heard part of the angry rant, er, media conference by an NRA talking head, who went on about ‘the freedom that makes America great’. With no acknowledgement of the more than 15,000 gunshot victims (leaving aside suicides) that occur every year. What is ‘great’ about that? Why is that ‘freedom’? People have got to start calling this out for what it is, namely, a lie.
:good:

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Kim O'Hara » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:15 am

shaunc wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:11 am
There's a bit of a joke getting around on Facebook at the moment.
In Australia shark attacks are at a record high so they put nets around the beaches to keep the swimmers safe.
In the U.S.A. they gave all of the swimmers a shark each to keep them safe.
I posted it on the matching thread on the other Wheel - https://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f ... 80#p460214

:coffee:
Kim

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Nemo
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Nemo » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:58 pm

Don't Americans demand people get licenses, pass a driving test, take medical exams and carry liability insurance for owning a motor vehicle? Why not firearms?

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justsit
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by justsit » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:43 pm

Nemo wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:58 pm
Don't Americans demand people get licenses, pass a driving test, take medical exams and carry liability insurance for owning a motor vehicle? Why not firearms?
Yes, those are requirements for a driving license.

Not for firearms for the same reason there is no national firearms registry - because the NRA has made it their business to ensure that doesn't happen.

Lukeinaz
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Lukeinaz » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:44 pm

Nemo wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:58 pm
Don't Americans demand people get licenses, pass a driving test, take medical exams and carry liability insurance for owning a motor vehicle? Why not firearms?
Because it is a god given right to bear arms. A drivers license is nothing more than a privilege.

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Jeff H » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:47 pm

Colbert mentioned this NRA-retelling of "Little Red Riding Hood (Has A Gun)". It was published in January 2016 and if it didn't reflect the actual fairy tale thinking of the powerful NRA, it would be pretty funny. Spoiler alert: the Big Bad Wolf doesn't get shot; the woodsman renders him to some unidentified location, presumably for enhanced interrogation.

I wonder how it would have turned out if the wolf had a gun too? That is, if wolves were a serious threat to humans ... and they didn't feel the need to engage their victims in conversation, like this one does.
We who are like children shrink from pain but love its causes. - Shantideva

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Jeff H » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:53 pm

Nemo wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:58 pm
Don't Americans demand people get licenses, pass a driving test, take medical exams and carry liability insurance for owning a motor vehicle? Why not firearms?
Your question seems to be based on logic. That's your big mistake. It's the same with health insurance. Everyone understands that car crashes can happen to anyone, even though no one expects them. So it makes sense to mandate car insurance in order to keep the premiums (relatively) low and be sure that the unexpected is covered. Yet presently healthy people refuse to support mandatory health insurance and universal coverage ... until they need it. Of course, then it's not "insurance", it's pay (through-the-nose) as you go. For the answer, see Shantideva's quote in my signature.
We who are like children shrink from pain but love its causes. - Shantideva

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Minobu
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Minobu » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:43 pm

MADNESS, an entire country mired in madness.

just a note here..in Canada you can apply for a gun license for hunting or for shooting holes in paper targets.

BUT!!! if you say in the interview you need one for protection...finished! ..not a chance of receiving the license ..

the words protection if used in any way ends any chance of getting the license...

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Minobu
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Minobu » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:49 pm


shaunc
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by shaunc » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:35 pm

Minobu wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:43 pm
MADNESS, an entire country mired in madness.

just a note here..in Canada you can apply for a gun license for hunting or for shooting holes in paper targets.

BUT!!! if you say in the interview you need one for protection...finished! ..not a chance of receiving the license ..

the words protection if used in any way ends any chance of getting the license...

Same in Australia.

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by justsit » Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:32 pm


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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:38 pm

justsit wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:32 pm
We start 'em young around here. These are "toys":

At a farm supply chain store five minutes from my house.
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/catalog/shooting-toys

And:
https://www.kids-army.com/toy-guns https://www.kids-army.com/toy-guns

At the fishing supply store:
https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/shootin ... pageSize:&

Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss ... ords=rifle
Lots of people grew up with BB guns, archery, slingshots, and shooting old beer cans without needing AR 15's, bit of a red herring. Whatever the ethical questions of buying one's kid a BB gun (and sure, there are some), I think it's a bit of stretch to connect them to the current crisis. I get the point you are trying to make, but it seems a bit puritanical.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

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Minobu
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Minobu » Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:50 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:38 pm
justsit wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:32 pm
We start 'em young around here. These are "toys":

At a farm supply chain store five minutes from my house.
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/catalog/shooting-toys

And:
https://www.kids-army.com/toy-guns https://www.kids-army.com/toy-guns

At the fishing supply store:
https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/shootin ... pageSize:&

Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss ... ords=rifle
Lots of people grew up with BB guns, archery, slingshots, and shooting old beer cans without needing AR 15's, bit of a red herring. Whatever the ethical questions of buying one's kid a BB gun (and sure, there are some), I think it's a bit of stretch to connect them to the current crisis.
connecting dots leads to misinformation and misdirection.
a nation's gun culture is what is needed to be examined.

does your nation gave a gun culture...

Image
like Jamaica

Is the mindset of a nation fixated on guns?...like a president who loves to talk of the 2nd amendment and discussing guns...rallying up masses of people to think guns and the 2nd amendment..

does the president of your country like to discuss people's right to bear arms ...

thats a culture of guns...

thats the real problem...telling people guns are good will only bring about ...more guns and gun violence..

what else are guns used for when you have laws that say you can have one to protect yourself...protect yourself from what....paper gun targets or other people with guns...

madness...absolute madness....never ending madness...

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Thomas Amundsen
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:03 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:38 pm
justsit wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:32 pm
We start 'em young around here. These are "toys":

At a farm supply chain store five minutes from my house.
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/catalog/shooting-toys

And:
https://www.kids-army.com/toy-guns https://www.kids-army.com/toy-guns

At the fishing supply store:
https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/shootin ... pageSize:&

Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss ... ords=rifle
Lots of people grew up with BB guns, archery, slingshots, and shooting old beer cans without needing AR 15's, bit of a red herring. Whatever the ethical questions of buying one's kid a BB gun (and sure, there are some), I think it's a bit of stretch to connect them to the current crisis. I get the point you are trying to make, but it seems a bit puritanical.
It is puritanical, but I think that's the point. I basically agree with JustSit. Sure, people grew up with BB guns, etc. I did, too. But I don't think there's really anything beneficial about that. If anything, it helps indoctrinate one into NRA guns culture. I eventually got HUGE into guns and tanks and stuff around age 13-16. I was bringing home books from school about military weapons, bullets, etc. That's definitely related to growing up with BB guns and toy guns, hunting etc. I don't see anything positive about it now.

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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:12 pm

Thomas Amundsen wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:03 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:38 pm
justsit wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:32 pm
We start 'em young around here. These are "toys":

At a farm supply chain store five minutes from my house.
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/catalog/shooting-toys

And:
https://www.kids-army.com/toy-guns https://www.kids-army.com/toy-guns

At the fishing supply store:
https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/shootin ... pageSize:&

Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss ... ords=rifle
Lots of people grew up with BB guns, archery, slingshots, and shooting old beer cans without needing AR 15's, bit of a red herring. Whatever the ethical questions of buying one's kid a BB gun (and sure, there are some), I think it's a bit of stretch to connect them to the current crisis. I get the point you are trying to make, but it seems a bit puritanical.
It is puritanical, but I think that's the point. I basically agree with JustSit. Sure, people grew up with BB guns, etc. I did, too. But I don't think there's really anything beneficial about that. If anything, it helps indoctrinate one into NRA guns culture. I eventually got HUGE into guns and tanks and stuff around age 13-16. I was bringing home books from school about military weapons, bullets, etc. That's definitely related to growing up with BB guns and toy guns, hunting etc. I don't see anything positive about it now.

I think it's missing the forest for the trees to get puritanical about that stuff, it also makes me wonder if the people complaining are parents themselves, once you actually have children you realize how complicated dealing with "I want x" is, it isn't as black and white as your decisions about toys and activities producing a predictable outcome. I also don't equate learning something like archery or target shooting with creating a tendency towards violence itself, which requires a desire to dominate, control, and harm.. and not only an implement. I realize some people do, if anything we could say that's the 'hinayana' approach to the question, I personally think it is a naive, somewhat superficial approach to take. It also assumes everyone that owns guns is or becomes a violent person..whatever one thinks of gun control as a political issue, a belief like that is not only unfair, it's demonstrably untrue. I want the culture to change as much as anyone, but I don't think that'll happen by plotting the same logic as the people who used rail about comic books destroying the youth, etc.

I grew up around it too, I even took an NRA rifle safety course as a kid (of one the only good things I think of about that organization)! Yet, I was able to make rational decisions, I never hunted, made the decision not to own guns as an adult as well, and am in opposition to the NRA of today and it's insane politics.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

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