deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

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deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by DNS » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:18 pm

Deadliest mass shooting in U.S. only 3 miles from my house.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/02/us/las-ve ... index.html

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Miroku » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:29 pm

Terrible news. There is nothing to add. Too much suffering, most probably for stupid reasons.
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Monlam Tharchin » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:04 pm

May all beings affected be born in Sukhavati without exception. :buddha1: And may we remaining in this world redouble our efforts to remove the causes of future suffering and establish all beings in lasting peace and happiness.

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Ayu » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:02 pm

DNS wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:18 pm
Deadliest mass shooting in U.S. only 3 miles from my house.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/02/us/las-ve ... index.html
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by DNS » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:50 pm

Ayu wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:02 pm
DNS wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:18 pm
Deadliest mass shooting in U.S. only 3 miles from my house.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/02/us/las-ve ... index.html
How are you?
I'm fine, thanks.

Some Spanish language news is saying there was possibly an ISIS connection, conversion to Islam, but I don't hear that on the English language news.

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Vasana » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:33 pm

Not to detract from the topic and these sad events but I think it's worth pointing out that the media framing it as the 'deadliest mass shooting' ignores pre-modern massacres and the wider context and roots of America's violent history.

This article is from last year when the Orlando club shooting was the 'deadliest mass shooting' but raises some good points.
”It’s important to put the [......] shooting in historical context not to minimize the terror wreaked by a disturbed and bigoted individual’s easy access to military-grade weapons, but to recognize that gun culture in the U.S. has gone hand in hand with violent hatred for a long time,”
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-mas ... story.html
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Mantrik » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:58 pm

In a little while I expect Trump to spout the dogma that guns don't kill people, people kill people etc etc.
Already seen one interview on UK media where the fact that a hugely powerful assault weapon was used was deemed irrelevant as he could have used a bomb.
This ignores the fact that you can obtain an assault rifle and ammo in under an hour in the US.......This was surely never envisaged in the creation of the right to bear arms. What next......allow people to carry anti-tank missiles as their 'right' and continue to ignore the power of the weapon carried vis a vis the 'right'?
I wonder if there is any limit to the number of murders the US will accept before it acts on gun control. I wonder how that number compares with the number of US miitary killed in a day of warfare in Iraq or Afghanistan.
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Ayu » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:35 pm

DNS wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:50 pm
Ayu wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:02 pm
DNS wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:18 pm
Deadliest mass shooting in U.S. only 3 miles from my house.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/02/us/las-ve ... index.html
How are you?
I'm fine, thanks.

Some Spanish language news is saying there was possibly an ISIS connection, conversion to Islam, but I don't hear that on the English language news.
In our local [edit: actually national] news (tagesschau) they said, ISIS claimed via a letter to be responsible for this deed. But the killer was a lonley 64-year old white man and they (the FBI?) don't think it's likely he was a sympathizer for ISIS.
Last edited by Ayu on Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Wrong vocabulary, as corrected by Kirtu see below.
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Kim O'Hara » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:18 pm

Our national news service has this to say:
A 64-year-old man armed with more than 10 rifles rained down gunfire on a Las Vegas country music festival on Sunday, slaughtering at least 58 people in the largest mass shooting in US history before killing himself. Nevada retiree Stephen Paddock has been identified as the gunman but police have found no evidence of a motive or belief system behind the killings. ...

Police said they had no information about Paddock's motive, that he had no criminal record and was not believed to be connected to any militant group.
Paddock killed himself before police entered the hotel room he was firing from, Clark County Sheriff Joseph Lombardo told reporters. ...

Federal officials said there was no evidence to link Paddock to militants. "We have determined to this point no connection with an international terrorist group," FBI special agent in charge Aaron Rouse told reporters. ...

US officials discounted a claim of responsibility for the attack made by Islamic State through its Amaq news agency.
"The Intelligence Community is aware of the claim of responsibility by a foreign terrorist organization for the shooting in Las Vegas," CIA spokesman Jonathan Liu said. "We advise caution on jumping to conclusions before the facts are in." ...

Despite an outcry among some lawmakers about the pervasiveness of guns in the United States, the massacre, like previous mass shootings, was unlikely to prompt action in Congress. Nevada has some of the most permissive gun laws in the United States. It does not require firearm owners to obtain licenses or register their guns. ...
More if you want it: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-03/l ... ck/9009432

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Kunzang » Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:16 am

I haven't read The Atlantic for a long while but I used to think it was reliable and thoughtful, so I don't know what to think about this article or this quote, since I find it doubtful, at least comparing it to what I thought I knew about ISIS:
The idea that the Islamic State simply scans the news in search of mass killings, then sends out press releases in hope of stealing glory, is false.
https://www.theatlantic.com/internation ... as/541746/

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Kim O'Hara » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:10 am

Kunzang wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:16 am
I haven't read The Atlantic for a long while but I used to think it was reliable and thoughtful, so I don't know what to think about this article or this quote, since I find it doubtful, at least comparing it to what I thought I knew about ISIS:
The idea that the Islamic State simply scans the news in search of mass killings, then sends out press releases in hope of stealing glory, is false.
https://www.theatlantic.com/internation ... as/541746/
The whole article is reasonably balanced, unlike your excerpt from it.

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by shaunc » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:40 am

I heard on a media report that he was a big gambler, often winning and losing amounts in the vicinity of $250,000. Just speculating but he may have felt that he'd been cheated or his line of credit cancelled or something along those lines.
Very sad.

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by kirtu » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:12 am

Ayu wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:35 pm
DNS wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:50 pm

Some Spanish language news is saying there was possibly an ISIS connection, conversion to Islam, but I don't hear that on the English language news.
In our local news (tagesschau) they said, ISIS claimed via a letter to be responsible for this deed. But the killer was a lonley 64-year old white man and they (the FBI?) don't think it's likely he was a sympathizer for ISIS.
To put this in context tagesschau is a German national news program more or less equivalent to ABC News in the United States. They have serious journalistic resources.

ISIS made this claim on their Amaq website. In the past they have not made arbitrary claims. That may now be changing as they made two false claims recently (aside for this possible false claim).

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Grigoris » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:12 pm

Even if ISIS was behind it (highly unlikely given the profile of the killer) it still does not negate the sheer lunacy of allowing anybody access and ownership of 10 military grade assault rifles. Allowing them to own 1 is stupid enough, but 10? WTF is wrong with your society? When will you finally wake up? Will you ever grow a brain?
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Norwegian » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:47 pm

Worth watching:
phpBB [video]

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by emaho » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:12 pm

:thanks:

I think the [video] tag hasn't been implemented in the forum software yet. This is the link to the video Norwegian posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruYeBXudsds
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by justsit » Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:50 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:12 pm
WTF is wrong with your society? When will you finally wake up? Will you ever grow a brain?
Not sure if your questions are rhetorical, so...quick answer, pro-gun advocates are well funded, well organized, and fed a constant diet of stories that provoke fear responses in many people. TPTB such as the NRA have a vested interest in keeping the pot stirred, not to mention the huge financial rewards to be reaped by investing in Smith & Wesson, etc. And that doesn't even begin to touch the whole Second Amendment "right" interpretation issue.

Also, a certain segment of American men love guns. They've been raised on heroes who win by blasting away bad guys. Guns won the American West and are deeply ingrained in American culture.

There are many, many people here who are totally distraught at the current situation, yet there seems to be no effective way to change it. Simple common sense ideas like requiring competency testing before allowing a person to buy a gun meet strenuous opposition.

If the slaughter of young children at Sandy Hook couldn't move Congress, I'm not sure what would. The NRA and their backers have very deep pockets and very long tentacles.

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Malcolm » Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:41 pm

justsit wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:50 pm
Guns won the American West and are deeply ingrained in American culture.
Actually, they didn't, it was railroads. The gun culture in this country was largely a post-Civil War phenomena created by mail order catalogues such as Sears and Roebucks who helped Smith and Wesson, etc., maintain their wartime production quotas after the war by selling cheap mass produced guns into the civilian market. Prior to the Civil War, most guns were very expensive, handmade items. In 1835, however, Colt began to mass produce revolvers, etc.

The mass production of guns for the civilian market however ramped up under Winchester in 1873, with the repeating rifle.

Combined with penny novels, these catalogues romanticized gun ownership, and along with low prices, guns began to become a very predominant force in American society, in the South and West in particular. Here in the Northeast, we generally have a more civilized attitude towards guns, and for example, this kind of incident could never happen in Massachusetts because assault weapons are banned in this state, and second, all guns that one owns must be registered, and third there are laws about how they are stored and how they can be moved.

However, we clearly need a national gun control law in this country, the Second Amendment does not prohibit gun control laws and never has.
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by DNS » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:57 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:41 pm
Here in the Northeast, we generally have a more civilized attitude towards guns, and for example, this kind of incident could never happen in Massachusetts because assault weapons are banned in this state, and second, all guns that one owns must be registered, and third there are laws about how they are stored and how they can be moved.
Don't forget Sandy Hook, although that was in Connecticut, still the northeast.

And also although assault weapons are banned in Mass. one could buy in another state and then drive to Mass. as long as the person is not stopped and caught by highway patrol. A national ban might be a good start, but there are so many already in so many homes it would be difficult to confiscate them all (criminals don't care about laws).

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by DGA » Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:08 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:41 pm
Here in the Northeast, we generally have a more civilized attitude towards guns, and for example, this kind of incident could never happen in Massachusetts because assault weapons are banned in this state, and second, all guns that one owns must be registered, and third there are laws about how they are stored and how they can be moved.
Zappa and the Mothers wrote:I'm telling you, my dear, that it can't... happen... here...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wakefield_massacre

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