deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

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Queequeg
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Queequeg » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:13 am

Hard to parse the ramblings of a mad man, but sounds kinda like Chump thought the kids who got shot should have done more.

From his Twitter...
So many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled from school for bad and erratic behavior. Neighbors and classmates knew he was a big problem. Must always report such instances to authorities, again and again!
The other person to blame was of course the insane kid...

Well, now that we've figured out the culprits no need to do anything more.

Remember, report weirdos (and Mexicans and Muslims) because otherwise you will get shot. Oh and you deserve it because you should have been packing.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

Ricky
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Ricky » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:44 am

Queequeg wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:13 am
Hard to parse the ramblings of a mad man, but sounds kinda like Chump thought the kids who got shot should have done more.

From his Twitter...
So many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled from school for bad and erratic behavior. Neighbors and classmates knew he was a big problem. Must always report such instances to authorities, again and again!
The other person to blame was of course the insane kid...

Well, now that we've figured out the culprits no need to do anything more.

Remember, report weirdos (and Mexicans and Muslims) because otherwise you will get shot. Oh and you deserve it because you should have been packing.
Several news releases are saying that the shooter was reported last fall as a potential threat. The FBI were apparently warned about him in September.

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by TharpaChodron » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:50 am

Ricky wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:44 am
Queequeg wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:13 am
Hard to parse the ramblings of a mad man, but sounds kinda like Chump thought the kids who got shot should have done more.

From his Twitter...
So many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled from school for bad and erratic behavior. Neighbors and classmates knew he was a big problem. Must always report such instances to authorities, again and again!
The other person to blame was of course the insane kid...

Well, now that we've figured out the culprits no need to do anything more.

Remember, report weirdos (and Mexicans and Muslims) because otherwise you will get shot. Oh and you deserve it because you should have been packing.
Several news releases are saying that the shooter was reported last fall as a potential threat. The FBI were apparently warned about him in September.
Yep, and the FBI and mental health services followed through with the concerns and did everything they could do legally. As this isn't Minority Report, they can't arrest people for crimes they haven't committed. You also can't hospitalize people for general threats they make online etc indefinitely.

The system worked as far as it can, thus Trump blaming people and the system for not reporting him or being concerned is bullshit.

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Ricky » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:35 am

TharpaChodron wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:50 am
Ricky wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:44 am
Queequeg wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:13 am
Hard to parse the ramblings of a mad man, but sounds kinda like Chump thought the kids who got shot should have done more.

From his Twitter...


The other person to blame was of course the insane kid...

Well, now that we've figured out the culprits no need to do anything more.

Remember, report weirdos (and Mexicans and Muslims) because otherwise you will get shot. Oh and you deserve it because you should have been packing.
Several news releases are saying that the shooter was reported last fall as a potential threat. The FBI were apparently warned about him in September.
Yep, and the FBI and mental health services followed through with the concerns and did everything they could do legally. As this isn't Minority Report, they can't arrest people for crimes they haven't committed. You also can't hospitalize people for general threats they make online etc indefinitely.

The system worked as far as it can, thus Trump blaming people and the system for not reporting him or being concerned is bullshit.
Then perhaps the system is broken.

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Mantrik » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:08 am

Ricky wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:35 am

Then perhaps the system is broken.
THE USA - NATURAL DESTINATION FOR ANYONE SEEKING (an) ASYLUM
http://www.khyung.com

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Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Mantrik » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:08 am

Mantrik wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:08 am
Ricky wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:35 am

Then perhaps the system is broken.
THE USA - NATURAL DESTINATION FOR ANYONE SEEKING (an) ASYLUM
Proof - just a year ago, Trump legislated to halt plans introduced by Obama to add mental illness to background checks.
And now - calls for more to be done about mental illness, but not gun control. So it is society's fault if someone remains mentally ill when they buy a gun, and if they use it, and nobody should restrict their access. Got it.
http://www.khyung.com

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by florin » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:56 pm

A way back i thought that the thread will be closed at some point but it was kept open.
And yes, keep it open...
“The path of the supreme yoga it is not the path of accomplished sages of the past. Whoever enters onto the path of the sages of the past will end up gripped by the sicknesses of the path - meditation, attachment, and exertion.”Thig le drug pa.

“Everything of the universe of saṃsāra and nirvāṇa arises as the enlightened energy of the one self-perfected Natural Presence. But these teachers still mistakenly teach that disciples should fabricate enlightenment by applying discipline, renunciation, interruption, purification and transformation”.

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Queequeg » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:21 pm

I think we keep this thread open as long as these shootings continue.

This is a shameful thread.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

florin
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by florin » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:07 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:21 pm
I think we keep this thread open as long as these shootings continue.

This is a shameful thread.
Yes, that is what i meant.
It is sad and hopeless.It will happen again.
“The path of the supreme yoga it is not the path of accomplished sages of the past. Whoever enters onto the path of the sages of the past will end up gripped by the sicknesses of the path - meditation, attachment, and exertion.”Thig le drug pa.

“Everything of the universe of saṃsāra and nirvāṇa arises as the enlightened energy of the one self-perfected Natural Presence. But these teachers still mistakenly teach that disciples should fabricate enlightenment by applying discipline, renunciation, interruption, purification and transformation”.

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Quay » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:32 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:49 pm
I can't see a program like that working in the US at all. The only people here that would favor a program like that are likely middle class urbanites who already don't own guns. So even if the political class had the will, I don't think most of the gun owners would. IIRC Australias population is also slightly larger than the greater LA area, so even on a practical level there are real impediments.
I think it would for one fairly simple and obvious reason. In the US we worship many things, from Jesus, to God, to guns, to college football, to women with large breasts, to concepts of family, and many other things including coffee, barbecue, iPhones, pickup trucks, and artisanal water. But above all else we worship money.

Pay people enough for their AR-15s and most will happily sell them. (Cleaning them is a pain in the ass. Takes at least two hours and some of the ridiculously small bolts and the buffer assembly were obviously made to drive people insane.) Even with our greater population it would be money well spent. And the statistically remaining gun owners, that 1 to 2% that own such huge numbers of weapons, would be much easier to keep track of.

And of course it would all be litigated. We're the most litigious country on earth. But tying up evidence and materials being litigated either through escrow or impound is another way to get weapons off the streets.

And fwiw, I'm not a "middle class urbanite" who has never owned guns. I'm a hillbilly who knows how the folks back home value cold, hard, cash. So stop wasting time comparing two no-account places like Australia and Los Angeles and fire up the paymasters! :D
"Knowledge is as infinite as the stars in the sky;
There is no end to all the subjects one could study.
It is better to grasp straight away their very essence--
The unchanging fortress of the Dharmakaya."

– Longchenpa.

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Malcolm
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Malcolm » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:59 pm

florin wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:07 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:21 pm
I think we keep this thread open as long as these shootings continue.

This is a shameful thread.
Yes, that is what i meant.
It is sad and hopeless.It will happen again.
Yes, for as long as Americans have easy access to guns, there will be mass shootings, even though gun violence in the US has in fact been decreasing steadily for years. What has increased however is the number of mass shootings. This is simple a function of there being too many guns in the US. The one variably present in all countries when it comes to mass shootings is the presence or absence of guns per capita. It is obvious the problem in the US is solely the ease with which guns can be purchased.

The only way the market can force people to give up their guns is by putting legislation in place which forces all owners of guns to carry insurance policies on each and every gun they own.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by florin » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:45 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:59 pm

The only way the market can force people to give up their guns is by putting legislation in place which forces all owners of guns to carry insurance policies on each and every gun they own.
I fear that there will be lots of people that having built a personal arsenal for very long time, and worked very hard at creating a warped mentality that justifies an insane amount of firearms, will resist and refuse to give in and surernder, even with the most prohibitive type of legislation.
“The path of the supreme yoga it is not the path of accomplished sages of the past. Whoever enters onto the path of the sages of the past will end up gripped by the sicknesses of the path - meditation, attachment, and exertion.”Thig le drug pa.

“Everything of the universe of saṃsāra and nirvāṇa arises as the enlightened energy of the one self-perfected Natural Presence. But these teachers still mistakenly teach that disciples should fabricate enlightenment by applying discipline, renunciation, interruption, purification and transformation”.

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Malcolm » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:01 pm

florin wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:45 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:59 pm

The only way the market can force people to give up their guns is by putting legislation in place which forces all owners of guns to carry insurance policies on each and every gun they own.
I fear that there will be lots of people that having built a personal arsenal for very long time, and worked very hard at creating a warped mentality that justifies an insane amount of firearms, will resist and refuse to give in and surernder, even with the most prohibitive type of legislation.
They are only three percent of the population. I.e., in the US three percent of the population own 50 percent of the guns. Which means that 3 percent of the US population owns 22.5 percent of all the guns in the world, since 45 percent of the world's guns are owned in the US. It has been pointed out before that in the US most states require one to carry car insurance. This kind of legislation will have to go state by state, since there is no way it will pass on a federal level. For example, where I live, in Massachusetts, there is very low level of gun violence in general because our gun control laws are very strict, and AR 15's are illegal for civilians to buy. Most gun violence in the US take place in states with lax gun control laws Across the border, in Vermont, the rate of gun violence rises precipitously because gun control laws are very relaxed in Vermont.

All of these guns have been illegal to possess or buy in Massachusetts since 1994:
Assault weapons are defined (with no exceptions, except pre 1994 models) as: (i) Avtomat Kalashnikov (AK) (all models), Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil, Beretta Ar70 (SC-70), Colt AR-15, Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR and FNC, SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9 and M-12, Steyr AUG, INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9, TEC-22, revolving cylinder shotguns, Street Sweeper, and the Striker 12.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Massachusetts
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

florin
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by florin » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:34 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:01 pm
florin wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:45 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:59 pm

The only way the market can force people to give up their guns is by putting legislation in place which forces all owners of guns to carry insurance policies on each and every gun they own.
I fear that there will be lots of people that having built a personal arsenal for very long time, and worked very hard at creating a warped mentality that justifies an insane amount of firearms, will resist and refuse to give in and surernder, even with the most prohibitive type of legislation.
They are only three percent of the population. I.e., in the US three percent of the population own 50 percent of the guns. Which means that 3 percent of the US population owns 22.5 percent of all the guns in the world, since 45 percent of the world's guns are owned in the US. It has been pointed out before that in the US most states require one to carry car insurance. This kind of legislation will have to go state by state, since there is no way it will pass on a federal level. For example, where I live, in Massachusetts, there is very low level of gun violence in general because our gun control laws are very strict, and AR 15's are illegal for civilians to buy. Most gun violence in the US take place in states with lax gun control laws Across the border, in Vermont, the rate of gun violence rises precipitously because gun control laws are very relaxed in Vermont.

All of these guns have been illegal to possess or buy in Massachusetts since 1994:
Assault weapons are defined (with no exceptions, except pre 1994 models) as: (i) Avtomat Kalashnikov (AK) (all models), Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil, Beretta Ar70 (SC-70), Colt AR-15, Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR and FNC, SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9 and M-12, Steyr AUG, INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9, TEC-22, revolving cylinder shotguns, Street Sweeper, and the Striker 12.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Massachusetts
These figures are insane.
I don't know what to say...
I mean, any percentage of gun owners that is above zero that live in places where gun control legislation is nonexistent or very lax, is a potential for dangerous and deadly situations.
It is not too dramatic to think that people living in these places could expect to be shot dead any moment.
“The path of the supreme yoga it is not the path of accomplished sages of the past. Whoever enters onto the path of the sages of the past will end up gripped by the sicknesses of the path - meditation, attachment, and exertion.”Thig le drug pa.

“Everything of the universe of saṃsāra and nirvāṇa arises as the enlightened energy of the one self-perfected Natural Presence. But these teachers still mistakenly teach that disciples should fabricate enlightenment by applying discipline, renunciation, interruption, purification and transformation”.

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Malcolm
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Malcolm » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:47 pm

florin wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:34 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:01 pm
florin wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:45 pm


I fear that there will be lots of people that having built a personal arsenal for very long time, and worked very hard at creating a warped mentality that justifies an insane amount of firearms, will resist and refuse to give in and surernder, even with the most prohibitive type of legislation.
They are only three percent of the population. I.e., in the US three percent of the population own 50 percent of the guns. Which means that 3 percent of the US population owns 22.5 percent of all the guns in the world, since 45 percent of the world's guns are owned in the US. It has been pointed out before that in the US most states require one to carry car insurance. This kind of legislation will have to go state by state, since there is no way it will pass on a federal level. For example, where I live, in Massachusetts, there is very low level of gun violence in general because our gun control laws are very strict, and AR 15's are illegal for civilians to buy. Most gun violence in the US take place in states with lax gun control laws Across the border, in Vermont, the rate of gun violence rises precipitously because gun control laws are very relaxed in Vermont.

All of these guns have been illegal to possess or buy in Massachusetts since 1994:
Assault weapons are defined (with no exceptions, except pre 1994 models) as: (i) Avtomat Kalashnikov (AK) (all models), Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil, Beretta Ar70 (SC-70), Colt AR-15, Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR and FNC, SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9 and M-12, Steyr AUG, INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9, TEC-22, revolving cylinder shotguns, Street Sweeper, and the Striker 12.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Massachusetts
These figures are insane.
I don't know what to say...
I mean, any percentage of gun owners that is above zero that live in places where gun control legislation is nonexistent or very lax, is a potential for dangerous and deadly situations.
It is not too dramatic to think that people living in these places could expect to be shot dead any moment.
Well, it sounds worse than it is. More than 60 percent of deaths from guns in the US are suicides.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Grigoris
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Grigoris » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:45 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:47 pm
florin wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:34 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:01 pm


They are only three percent of the population. I.e., in the US three percent of the population own 50 percent of the guns. Which means that 3 percent of the US population owns 22.5 percent of all the guns in the world, since 45 percent of the world's guns are owned in the US. It has been pointed out before that in the US most states require one to carry car insurance. This kind of legislation will have to go state by state, since there is no way it will pass on a federal level. For example, where I live, in Massachusetts, there is very low level of gun violence in general because our gun control laws are very strict, and AR 15's are illegal for civilians to buy. Most gun violence in the US take place in states with lax gun control laws Across the border, in Vermont, the rate of gun violence rises precipitously because gun control laws are very relaxed in Vermont.

All of these guns have been illegal to possess or buy in Massachusetts since 1994:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Massachusetts
These figures are insane.
I don't know what to say...
I mean, any percentage of gun owners that is above zero that live in places where gun control legislation is nonexistent or very lax, is a potential for dangerous and deadly situations.
It is not too dramatic to think that people living in these places could expect to be shot dead any moment.
Well, it sounds worse than it is. More than 60 percent of deaths from guns in the US are suicides.
And the second largest group of killings is from domestic violence incidents. :crying:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Malcolm
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Malcolm » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:54 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:45 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:47 pm
florin wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:34 pm


These figures are insane.
I don't know what to say...
I mean, any percentage of gun owners that is above zero that live in places where gun control legislation is nonexistent or very lax, is a potential for dangerous and deadly situations.
It is not too dramatic to think that people living in these places could expect to be shot dead any moment.
Well, it sounds worse than it is. More than 60 percent of deaths from guns in the US are suicides.
And the second largest group of killings is from domestic violence incidents. :crying:
And believe it or not, deaths from guns overall are down precipitously since 1990, along with crime, and so on.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Dorje Shedrub
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Dorje Shedrub » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:20 pm

My uncle noted that though the 2nd Amendment guarantees the right to bear arms (a one shot musket in his opinion) it does not protect the right to have bullets.
Homage to the Precious Dzogchen Master
🙏🌺🙏 Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
🙏🌺🙏

Lukeinaz
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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by Lukeinaz » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:29 am

How would you counter the average gun nuts arguments made against Chicago's failed gun laws, and in particular the honest guys are the only ones that will turn in the guns leaving only the criminals armed?
You are truly astonishing--going to look for yourself when you already are yourself! --Longchen Rabjam

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Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Post by justsit » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:25 am

Lukeinaz wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:29 am
How would you counter the average gun nuts arguments made against Chicago's failed gun laws, and in particular the honest guys are the only ones that will turn in the guns leaving only the criminals armed?
According to my brother (responsible gun owner, NRA non-member), one of the problems in Chicago stems from the fact that gun laws differ by state. So the stiff laws in Chi town are circumvented by buyers who cross state lines to make purchases. Gun amnesty may work in some areas, but big cities are not likely to yield significant results - too much drug money floating around.

Solving the problem of gun violence in America will require a multi-prong approach. First step might be to strictly enforce laws already on the books. Eliminate the unregulated gun show and online purchases. Add licensing requirements (i.e., proficiency tests before purchase), insurance, etc. Make background checks more thorough, and add a 48 hour waiting period. Limiting production of ammo would help. Make a uniform national policy vs. varied individual state regulations. We'll likely need the Second Amendment revised (good luck with that). Then eliminate lobbyists and PAC's. (OK, I'm dreaming here, but still...).

The combination of Big Gun money and Big Pharma money both being heavily invested in the status quo is problematic. I think the biggest obstacle is that the politicians who can actually effect change are not really interested in having gun control.

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