Kill Daesh Jihadists from Britain says Government

The best place for discussion of current events. News about Buddhists and Buddhism is particularly welcome.
User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 15147
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Kill Daesh Jihadists from Britain says Government

Post by Grigoris » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:40 am

Malcolm wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:15 pm
I am sure if you think about it a little bit, you can really understand the difference.
I deal with it on a daily basis. I have thought about it a lot and it seems to me that those claiming to act on behalf of the Dharma and concurrently engage in genocide are greater enemies of the Dharma and cause greater harm to the Dharma, than those that claim that they acting against the Dharma (ie Daesh, Taliban, etc...).

As for the U$... Personally I believe that Daesh, at least, are honest about being complete and utter mutha frackers. The U$ though, although it claims to be acting for democracy, for peace, for freedom, etc... In reality... And this is without taking into account that the U$ have bank-rolled and trained these militant groups, or have supported politically and economically those that back Daesh, Taliban, Boko Haram...

There is this story that was common in Anarchist circles:

Two friends were walking along the banks of the river when they came across a group of people pulling babies out of the water. Some were using nets, some had jumped in the water, some were using boat hooks, some had ropes. Although they were saving some of the babies, others were being swept away and drowning.

When the people saw the friends they shouted to them: "Come help us!"

One of the friends immediately ran to the banks of the river and started pulling babies out of the water, the other friend started to run upstream along the banks of the river.

"Where are you going?" shouted everybody.

"I am going to find the frackers throwing the babies into the river!" replied the friend.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 15147
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Kill Daesh Jihadists from Britain says Government

Post by Grigoris » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:55 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:48 am
Also worth mentioning, America has already done this with Al Quaeda.
No they haven't. Al Qaeda is doing just fine. Their subsidiary company in Syria, Al Nusra, has control of oil wells in the west of Syria and is selling their bargain priced petroleum to the (American ally) Turkey, which is using it to attack and kill the only true enemy of Daesh: the Kurdish separatists.

Like I said: kill the frackers throwing the babies into the water.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 15147
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Kill Daesh Jihadists from Britain says Government

Post by Grigoris » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:19 am

Malcolm wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:57 am
The installation of friendly regimes works for me.
Which is why you quoting tantric vows to justify murdering brown people comes across as yet another case of nauseating self-serving white middle class American nonsense.

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Mantrik
Posts: 550
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:55 pm
Contact:

Re: Kill Daesh Jihadists from Britain says Government

Post by Mantrik » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:35 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:19 am
Malcolm wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:57 am
The installation of friendly regimes works for me.
Which is why you quoting tantric vows to justify murdering brown people comes across as yet another case of nauseating self-serving white middle class American nonsense.


That's pretty uncalled for. Nobody has advocated murder or attacks on 'brown people'. Rather ridiculous to mention it in the context of Tantra, which has some links with brown people I believe. You need to row back on the ad homs which weaken your argument.
If the Tantric Vows fit, and it seems they do, this again has naff all to do with whether a white American tells you so, or a brown guy called Ogyan Tanzin, who is one of your masters, and mine, and whose most senior UK source also states this to be the case with regard to killing those who, like the Daesh hardcore, have a total commitment to murder others. Remember, Malcolm mentioned lower activities and this is the compassionate context which has been missed from much of the discussion.
http://www.khyung.com

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 15147
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Kill Daesh Jihadists from Britain says Government

Post by Grigoris » Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:08 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:35 pm
If the Tantric Vows fit, and it seems they do...
It is not a question of whether the tantric vow fits, you can warp it to make it fit any thing you want. If the application of the tantric vow (or any activity) is based on self-grasping and self-cherishing, then it is being incorrectly applied. Motivation is key.
...this again has naff all to do with whether a white American tells you so, or a brown guy called Ogyan Tanzin, who is one of your masters, and mine, and whose most senior UK source also states this to be the case with regard to killing those who, like the Daesh hardcore, have a total commitment to murder others.
My teacher did not tell me to kill anybody, and if they did, I would have to look long and hard at MY motivation for following their recommendation. Anyway, I follow my teachers on issues of Dharma, not issues of politics. Current scandals have shown the necessity of effectively using one's own discriminatory wisdom in these circumstances. ;)

Security and military personnel have total commitments to murder others too, sooooo... like I asked earlier: Do we execute them upon arrival too? And why do we draw the line at Daesh? Don't the Syrian State Armed Forces also kill, torture and rape? The Syrian Free Army forces? Al Nusra? Etc...?
Remember, Malcolm mentioned lower activities and this is the compassionate context which has been missed from much of the discussion.
Somehow I doubt Malcolm has the ability to read the minds of the people that he wishes to condemn to death, so you'll have to excuse me if I don't agree with his view. You see, at the end of the day, it is me that will reap the outcomes of my actions, so if I am going to engage in murder or encourage others to engage in murder, I am not going to do it on the basis of the fact that Malcolm (as a white middle class male American) has a hard one for Pax Americana.

And, in closing: Wasn't Angulimala also religiously fanatical a mass murderer?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Mantrik
Posts: 550
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:55 pm
Contact:

Re: Kill Daesh Jihadists from Britain says Government

Post by Mantrik » Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:57 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:08 pm
Mantrik wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:35 pm
If the Tantric Vows fit, and it seems they do...
It is not a question of whether the tantric vow fits, you can warp it to make it fit any thing you want. If the application of the tantric vow (or any activity) is based on self-grasping and self-cherishing, then it is being incorrectly applied. Motivation is key.
...this again has naff all to do with whether a white American tells you so, or a brown guy called Ogyan Tanzin, who is one of your masters, and mine, and whose most senior UK source also states this to be the case with regard to killing those who, like the Daesh hardcore, have a total commitment to murder others.
My teacher did not tell me to kill anybody, and if they did, I would have to look long and hard at MY motivation for following their recommendation. Anyway, I follow my teachers on issues of Dharma, not issues of politics. Current scandals have shown the necessity of effectively using one's own discriminatory wisdom in these circumstances. ;)

Security and military personnel have total commitments to murder others too, sooooo... like I asked earlier: Do we execute them upon arrival too? And why do we draw the line at Daesh? Don't the Syrian State Armed Forces also kill, torture and rape? The Syrian Free Army forces? Al Nusra? Etc...?
Remember, Malcolm mentioned lower activities and this is the compassionate context which has been missed from much of the discussion.
Somehow I doubt Malcolm has the ability to read the minds of the people that he wishes to condemn to death, so you'll have to excuse me if I don't agree with his view. You see, at the end of the day, it is me that will reap the outcomes of my actions, so if I am going to engage in murder or encourage others to engage in murder, I am not going to do it on the basis of the fact that Malcolm (as a white middle class male American) has a hard one for Pax Americana.

And, in closing: Wasn't Angulimala also religiously fanatical a mass murderer?
Your post is peppered with the word 'murder'. If lawful, it is not murder. Of course, it depends whose law you believe validates the killing.

You don't have to read the mind of someone who states they wish to massacre you. You have to assume they mean it or wait until they grab the detonator or pull the trigger to be certain.

I think you are conflating so many issues that confusion has crept in. To put it in the most crude terms in UK slang it is bleedin' obvious why Daesh is the target of Western governments' policies of killing people before they can return to those countries and attack us here.

Should any one of the other organisations you mention begin terrorist attacks here, the policy towards them would be the same. Even Al Qaeda is not seen to be enough of a threat at the moment but I dare say that western forces are routinely bumping off their cells as they find them... it just isn't news. The western governments did not single out Daesh, Daesh did that themselves.
http://www.khyung.com

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

User avatar
Ayu
Former staff member
Posts: 6775
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:25 am
Location: Europe

Re: Kill Daesh Jihadists from Britain says Government

Post by Ayu » Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:12 pm

Topic unlocked.
I have decided to stick with love.
Hate is too great a burden to bear.
- Martin Luther King, Jr. -

User avatar
PuerAzaelis
Posts: 809
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:37 pm

Re: Kill Daesh Jihadists from Britain says Government

Post by PuerAzaelis » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:15 am

Um, before we go off to amputate gangrenous limbs or stop people upstream throwing the babies ... can we all agree that in the long run none of this will work? Giving causation a nudge isn’t going to stop people headed for an animal rebirth, or worse.
And nobody in all of Oz. No Wizard that there is or was.

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 25375
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Kill Daesh Jihadists from Britain says Government

Post by Malcolm » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:19 am

PuerAzaelis wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:15 am
Um, before we go off to amputate gangrenous limbs or stop people upstream throwing the babies ... can we all agree that in the long run none of this will work? Giving causation a nudge isn’t going to stop people headed for an animal rebirth, or worse.
Of course.
Atikosha
Tibetan Medicine Blog
Sudarsana Mandala, Tibetan Medicine and Herbs
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

joy&peace
Posts: 917
Joined: Mon May 11, 2015 4:53 pm

Re: Kill Daesh Jihadists from Britain says Government

Post by joy&peace » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:25 am

Here as well,


A couple of weeks ago I discovered:

http://www.businessinsider.com/isis-fig ... aq-2017-10


On the 8th.


Today this:

http://www.businessinsider.com/isis-a-p ... qa-2017-10


So . . . it might be not as bad as some might think.

May all beings be healthy,
Happy,
And at peace.



After suffering defeat after defeat on the ground, ISIS has upped the aggression of its media operation in an attempt to save face. Recently the group released audio it said came from its top leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, who was rumored to be killed or at least injured by airstrikes.
Om Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate bodhi svaha

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 15147
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Kill Daesh Jihadists from Britain says Government

Post by Grigoris » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:30 am

Mantrik wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:57 pm
You don't have to read the mind of someone who states they wish to massacre you. You have to assume they mean it or wait until they grab the detonator or pull the trigger to be certain.
On the basis of this logic we should also kill all neo-Nazis given their stated purpose to kill all non-white people, or should we wait for the next spate of lynchings to start before we do it?
I think you are conflating so many issues that confusion has crept in.
Nope. I am just privey to personal accounts from people escaping the carnage in these countries (Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Nigeria, South Sudan, etc...) and recognise the fact that the picture is not black and white.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Mkoll
Posts: 1109
Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 5:53 am
Location: California

Re: Kill Daesh Jihadists from Britain says Government

Post by Mkoll » Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:02 am

Malcolm wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:45 pm
Mantrik wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:05 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:02 pm


When someone is an enemy of the Dharma and sentient beings, like Daesh, then it is justified.
Do you mean if they are close to completing the karma of killing, specifically?
Daesh should be eliminated. They are exactly the kind of sentient beings that should be the object of the lower activity. It is the only compassionate way to deal with them.
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:47 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:35 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:27 pm
No, liberation is a kind of wrathful phowa, actually.
I understand this my dear Malcolm, but what we are actually talking about ('ccept in the case of Guru Rinpoche, maybe) is Military personnel dropping bones from drones on unknown people that look like ISIS members. Now if you consider that "liberation", well, then it seems you have strange ideas about tantric practice. Now if it was Guru Rinpoche manning the drones I might say okay, it would still kind of freak me out, but...
I don't see any reason why they all shouldn't be executed. Why? Because they are actually wicked. There are not that many people in the world that I think of as being wicked through and through. Daesh fits the bill.
Malcolm wrote:If they are there, they believe in what they are doing.
VICE News: Cubs of the Caliphate wrote:Slouched over a dusty tent floor in northern Iraq, 15 year-old Ali shuffled dirt back and forth between his hands as he recounted the horrors of his life. It was the first time he’d confided his story in anyone. His mother, who had suffered the heartbreak of losing both her husband and her two eldest sons, refused to acknowledge any mention of the last three years, hoping to forget.

“I saw someone get beaten and slaughtered for talking to the army. And whenever someone commits adultery they’re thrown from a building,” Ali said. “If it’s a woman, they stone her. Sometimes they bring them to the middle of the street and kill them.”

Ali was 12 when ISIS arrived in his hometown of Mosul in 2014. It wasn’t long after that his father and brothers were killed in an airstrike that destroyed most of his home. He had no choice but to step up as the man of the household, providing for his mother and younger siblings by selling water tanks directly to ISIS fighters.

Each day, the fighters he sold water to would try to recruit him. They promised money, cars, nice clothes, weapons to play with and a fast track to paradise in the ecstatic form of martyrdom. Ali was tempted, he told us, if it weren’t for the fear that his mother would disown him.

For many of Ali’s friends, however, fear of the world’s most brutal terrorist organization far outweighed losing the love of their mother. They signed up in droves, like thousands of other young boys throughout northern Iraq, Syria and elsewhere had. Some were kidnapped, many were coerced and others went willingly in search of adventure, power, and security. Collectively, they comprised the ‘Cubs Of The Caliphate’: an army of fresh-eyed young males meticulously nurtured by the Islamic State to comprise the next generation of jihadists.

Over the span of several weeks spent in northern Iraq this summer, my crew and I met with many of these so-called “cubs” who spent their formative years training and working with ISIS. They shared with us the process of being stripped of their childhood by radical thought, and entering manhood trapped between terror, family, state and ideology.

A handful of boys explained how they were plucked from impoverished neighborhoods between the ages of eight and 18, and taken to ISIS training camps, where their days initially revolved around memorizing the Quran. There was no source of news from the outside world and limited entertainment besides chants that glorify the caliphate and films that climax with the beheadings of ‘kafirs’.

Later, they were put through rigorous bodybuilding and target practice, familiarizing themselves with an array of assault weapons — some still too heavy to carry. They sat through classes on how to build IEDs and how to master the art of blowing yourself up. One teenager we met with told us how every morning he and his friends were instructed to strap explosive vests to their waists and picture themselves walking into busy streets or sprinting through enemy territory to clear the route for a frontline offensive. From there they would rise straight from the battlefield up into paradise, they were told, where concubine-virgins, wine and glory would greet them.

“They taught us for 2 years and 45 days. So we would become like them, so they would change us. We used to believe,” said Saif, a 15 year-old Yazidi who was captured by ISIS along with his brother Sari in 2014. After graduating from military camp a few months later they were sent to the frontlines of Raqqa, where they remained for the following year and a half. They fired away at the “infidels” on their 12.5 calibers and AK47s, sometimes hurling over hand grenades too. “I just shot at [the infidels]. They were men and women. I was a good shot,” said Sari. “My friends who were with me also fought, and so I got excited with them and I became braver… Everyone, everyone who was in their religion felt excitement.”

These young children do not shed their violent pasts easily. During the course of our filming, we stopped interviews multiple times for kids who had outbursts of uncontrollable rage, floods of tears and even fits of giggles as they spoke about the atrocities of their pasts.

“[These children] are not mentally healthy,” says Dr Anne Speckhard, Director of the International Center for the Study of Violent Extremism. “When you look at the kids that were in ISIS that carried out crimes, it’s difficult to look at them because they’re hardened criminals, they’ve been turned into perpetrators, they’ve been turned into monsters… The best thing would be to put [them] through rehabilitation programs and work with the community before they’re released.”

Yet such programs face severe challenges, namely: a dearth of financial resources and a general lack of will to help the perpetrators or accomplices of ISIS. Psychiatric support simply doesn’t exist on any tangible scale, and government programs have yet to be rolled out.

Instead, the children of ISIS are relegated to circumstances that portend a bleak future. Some of the cubs that we met were crammed inside poorly equipped prisons, awaiting their trials, which had been delayed for months due to the backlog in Iraqi courts. Boys as young as 10 sat hugging their knees in 120-degree heat, shoulder-to-shoulder alongside hundreds of large bearded men also suspected of working for ISIS.

Those who escaped detention or were released without charge were either placed in specific areas of refugee camps, or have been forced into hiding for fear of retribution. We met one teenager after he was released from prison for allegedly spending just one month at a training camp back when ISIS first came to his town. He spoke to us behind closed curtains as he packed his belongings and planned for an escape from his hometown, too afraid to tell his closest friends where he was heading.

In a country that has suffered three long years of annihilation at the hands of ISIS, the desire for revenge on perpetrators is overwhelming. Countless Iraqis have had their family members kidnapped, tortured, raped and killed using the most barbaric of tactics. For them, there is no forgiveness for anyone even vaguely associated with the group.

In the village of Houd in Qayyarah district, we visited a number of houses that had been bulldozed down by villagers eager for payback. Recrimination attacks have also spread, with reports of civilians and Iraqi security forces carrying out extrajudicial killings.

“We have to remember this is a tribal society and this is a society that’s lost faith in the judicial system. And they have lots of guns. So they take justice into their own hands,” says Speckhard. “You have to work with the community to lift that stigma, to find a way to integrate [them] and to forgive.”
To be in favor of the death penalty is already morally reprehensible. But when you realize some of these fighters are minors and still call for their execution, you've reached levels even the SCOTUS has deemed "cruel and unusual punishment" (Roper v. Simmons, 543 U.S. 551 (2005)).

I'm assuming you didn't know that some ISIS fighters were kids when making those statements. So are you still in favor of executing all ISIS fighters, now knowing that some are brainwashed minors?
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 25375
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Kill Daesh Jihadists from Britain says Government

Post by Malcolm » Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:24 pm

Mkoll wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:02 am
I'm assuming you didn't know that some ISIS fighters were kids when making those statements. So are you still in favor of executing all ISIS fighters, now knowing that some are brainwashed minors?

You can't seriously think that the international community can allow Daesh to survive anywhere. Of course there are ethical issues and concerns, as there always when dealing with death cults, recruitment of child soldiers is one of them and how to reintegrate them after they have been captured is something the international community is going to have to deal with.

I was specifically referring to those people who refuse to surrender.
Atikosha
Tibetan Medicine Blog
Sudarsana Mandala, Tibetan Medicine and Herbs
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

User avatar
Mkoll
Posts: 1109
Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 5:53 am
Location: California

Re: Kill Daesh Jihadists from Britain says Government

Post by Mkoll » Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:40 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:24 pm
Mkoll wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:02 am
I'm assuming you didn't know that some ISIS fighters were kids when making those statements. So are you still in favor of executing all ISIS fighters, now knowing that some are brainwashed minors?

You can't seriously think that the international community can allow Daesh to survive anywhere. Of course there are ethical issues and concerns, as there always when dealing with death cults, recruitment of child soldiers is one of them and how to reintegrate them after they have been captured is something the international community is going to have to deal with.

I was specifically referring to those people who refuse to surrender.
You keep changing who you were referring to. You're getting more and more specific.

But I'll play along. What does "refuse to surrender" specifically mean when you use it in this context? I see the phrase as referring to people who fight to the death in battle, in which case calling for their execution is redundant.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 25375
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Kill Daesh Jihadists from Britain says Government

Post by Malcolm » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:04 pm

Mkoll wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:40 pm
You keep changing who you were referring to. You're getting more and more specific.
No, I have from the beginning been referring to Daesh fighters, people actively engaged in armed combat who refuse to put down their arms.
Atikosha
Tibetan Medicine Blog
Sudarsana Mandala, Tibetan Medicine and Herbs
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

User avatar
Mkoll
Posts: 1109
Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 5:53 am
Location: California

Re: Kill Daesh Jihadists from Britain says Government

Post by Mkoll » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:13 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:04 pm
Mkoll wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:40 pm
You keep changing who you were referring to. You're getting more and more specific.
No, I have from the beginning been referring to Daesh fighters, people actively engaged in armed combat who refuse to put down their arms.
So if a 13 year old Daesh fighter engaged in armed combat was disarmed and captured (e.g. an airstrike knocked them out, his position was taken and he was captured), you'd be in favor of executing them?
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 25375
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Kill Daesh Jihadists from Britain says Government

Post by Malcolm » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:27 pm

Mkoll wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:13 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:04 pm
Mkoll wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:40 pm
You keep changing who you were referring to. You're getting more and more specific.
No, I have from the beginning been referring to Daesh fighters, people actively engaged in armed combat who refuse to put down their arms.
So if a 13 year old Daesh fighter engaged in armed combat was disarmed and captured (e.g. an airstrike knocked them out, his position was taken and he was captured), you'd be in favor of executing them?
That's not up for me to say. That would be up to a court to decide. People who are prisoners of war have rights accorded to them in the Geneva convention. We should observe them, even if fanatics like Daesh would not.

In this country, 13 year olds can be tried as adults if the crime is sufficiently grave.
Atikosha
Tibetan Medicine Blog
Sudarsana Mandala, Tibetan Medicine and Herbs
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

User avatar
Nemo
Posts: 805
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:23 am
Location: Canada

Re: Kill Daesh Jihadists from Britain says Government

Post by Nemo » Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:34 am

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:27 pm
In this country, 13 year olds can be tried as adults if the crime is sufficiently grave.
Nope, illegal under the Geneva Convention to charge child soldiers.

When I was still involved with the army the thing in Syria was meant to be a honey pot so we could get all our radicals out of the country so we could murder them legally. Following them around was getting super boring and expensive. It was going to be drawn out and stalemated for 5 years with the first 18 months to 2 years going super well for them. We even paid guys in Turkey to help get them into Syria. How did that work out? I'm retired and ignored the whole thing.

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 15147
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Kill Daesh Jihadists from Britain says Government

Post by Grigoris » Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:04 am

Nemo wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:34 am
Nope, illegal under the Geneva Convention to charge child soldiers.
I've had to give psychological support to a couple of child soldiers. That's a whole different type of fraked up to dealing with adult ex-combatants...
When I was still involved with the army the thing in Syria was meant to be a honey pot so we could get all our radicals out of the country so we could murder them legally. Following them around was getting super boring and expensive. It was going to be drawn out and stalemated for 5 years with the first 18 months to 2 years going super well for them. We even paid guys in Turkey to help get them into Syria. How did that work out? I'm retired and ignored the whole thing.
Thank you for this information.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 25375
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Kill Daesh Jihadists from Britain says Government

Post by Malcolm » Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:58 pm

Nemo wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:34 am
Malcolm wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:27 pm
In this country, 13 year olds can be tried as adults if the crime is sufficiently grave.
Nope, illegal under the Geneva Convention to charge child soldiers.
I said in the US. For example, if an underage US citizen was caught in Iraq or Syria and returned to the US, they could be tried as an adult in this country, depending what they are charged with.
Atikosha
Tibetan Medicine Blog
Sudarsana Mandala, Tibetan Medicine and Herbs
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Nicholas Weeks and 28 guests