BOUND. TORTURED. KILLED.

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joy&peace
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Re: BOUND. TORTURED. KILLED.

Post by joy&peace » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:15 pm

. . . first positive . . .
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joy&peace
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Re: BOUND. TORTURED. KILLED.

Post by joy&peace » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:18 pm

Cool.

What do you like most about England?

:anjali:

Love and compassion is certainly the best.

England has good things for sure -- coming out of centuries of warfare and such -- but they are our mother --

Animal slaughter is unfortunate still going on --

In many places --

Not singling England on that one.


What are some positives :namaste:

Let's calm down a bit.

Love and peace
:anjali:
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Dan74
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Re: BOUND. TORTURED. KILLED.

Post by Dan74 » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:27 pm

I think we are calm, j&p. It is a sad issue and I wish I could actually do something about it. Almost unimaginable that such things are still happening...

As for the UK, I love London, the mad and wonderful city with it streets, its parks, its history, its galleries, its people. I love Edinbugh and the warm and funny folks there. But I've seen very little apart from that in my time in the UK - was working.

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Re: BOUND. TORTURED. KILLED.

Post by Grigoris » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:30 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:58 pm
Sorry, Greg, I am familiar with all the things you mention. Still, Daesh is a special case. They have international reach and support. They have a well-oiled propaganda machine which attracts sick people from around the world to join their cause.

It really is on a scale not seen since the Nazis. And incidentally, Daesh arose from the oppressor class in Iraq. One of the reasons for their success is that 1) a large percentage of their commanders are ex- Iraqi Revolutionary Guard, and 2) a lot of the most effective foreign fighters are/were Chechens. who now have a brutal state tolerated by the Russians.
Yes, I agree they are a somewhat special case. Thing is, it seems to me that they are just a point along a continuum, that has been developing and mutating since the U$ experiment with the Mujahedin. The development of these types of movements has also been influenced by the destabilisation of authoritarian regimes in the region and the use of (previously non-existent) social media to spread their influence.

Barbarity in the treatment of captives and cruelty in torture is nothing new. It is as old as human ignorance.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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joy&peace
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Re: BOUND. TORTURED. KILLED.

Post by joy&peace » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:35 pm

Calm is good. . .
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Re: BOUND. TORTURED. KILLED.

Post by joy&peace » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:36 pm

But harsh speech and hyper aggression, hyper hostility .

Not.
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Re: BOUND. TORTURED. KILLED.

Post by Grigoris » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:38 pm

You keep this up and I will get pissed off at you constantly telling me to relax! :tongue:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Malcolm
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Re: BOUND. TORTURED. KILLED.

Post by Malcolm » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:39 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:30 pm
Yes, I agree they are a somewhat special case.
Well, that is the whole point.

Thing is, it seems to me that they are just a point along a continuum, that has been developing and mutating since the U$ experiment with the Mujahedin. The development of these types of movements has also been influenced by the destabilisation of authoritarian regimes in the region and the use of (previously non-existent) social media to spread their influence.
The Nazis were caused by the Versailles Treaty. They also used the latest new media technology in their day to broadcast a sick ideology. Central Europe had been destabilized by the War, then by the depression, etc.

Barbarity in the treatment of captives and cruelty in torture is nothing new. It is as old as human ignorance.
The Nazis and Daesh share special skills in this department. That is why they must be destroyed. Right now in the US there is a debate about whether hate speech really should be protected speech.
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Re: BOUND. TORTURED. KILLED.

Post by Grigoris » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:40 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:39 pm
The Nazis and Daesh share special skills in this department. That is why they must be destroyed. Right now in the US there is a debate about whether hate speech really should be protected speech.
Well it is about fracking time...
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: BOUND. TORTURED. KILLED.

Post by Dan74 » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:43 pm

It is a somewhat naive 'whack-a-mole' approach that believes that if you destroy Daesh, the organisation, that's it. It will of course spring up in a different guise soon enough. The underlying causes which are many, need to be addressed.

Nazis were of course 'not caused by Versailles' though it certainly made it much easier for them to rise in prominence. There is an underlying ground that is fertile for such poisonous systems of thought and that is what needs to be addressed, IMO.

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Re: BOUND. TORTURED. KILLED.

Post by joy&peace » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:47 pm

What's 'whack-a-mole'?
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Re: BOUND. TORTURED. KILLED.

Post by joy&peace » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:48 pm

Well the point is you should be kind to everyone.

Even your friends.

Yes, we're still friends.


. .

May all beings be healthy, etc.

You know.

:anjali: ;) :) :D :meditate:
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Re: BOUND. TORTURED. KILLED.

Post by Mantrik » Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:37 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:40 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:39 pm
The Nazis and Daesh share special skills in this department. That is why they must be destroyed. Right now in the US there is a debate about whether hate speech really should be protected speech.
Well it is about fracking time...
Be careful what you wish for. In the UK we now have endless snowflake idiots reporting people for saying pretty much anything which can be interpreted as offending someone. We even have universities with paid-for 'thought police' tasked with kicking out any speaker who says anything controversial in case the students get upset. Students are permitted to masturbate but not to mass-debate.
Our society is now so crazed that people can be prosecuted purely on the basis that someone somewhere finds what they said or wrote 'offensive'. We started with 'hate speech' , but the trouble is that everyone defines it differently so they gave up and basically banned any words which someone claimed to be offended by. Welcome to 1984 Orwellian UK. They'd have you (and me) banged up in jail in seconds if we were public speakers! ;)
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Re: BOUND. TORTURED. KILLED.

Post by DGA » Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:56 pm

joy&peace wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:47 pm
What's 'whack-a-mole'?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whac-A-Mole

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Malcolm
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Re: BOUND. TORTURED. KILLED.

Post by Malcolm » Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:12 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:43 pm

Nazis were of course 'not caused by Versailles' though it certainly made it much easier for them to rise in prominence. There is an underlying ground that is fertile for such poisonous systems of thought and that is what needs to be addressed, IMO.
Sure they were; Versailles was the causal condition for Nazism in all kinds of ways.
Atikosha
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

joy&peace
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Re: BOUND. TORTURED. KILLED.

Post by joy&peace » Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:32 pm

Other groups also. Decades before.
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Re: BOUND. TORTURED. KILLED.

Post by Dan74 » Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:53 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:12 pm
Dan74 wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:43 pm

Nazis were of course 'not caused by Versailles' though it certainly made it much easier for them to rise in prominence. There is an underlying ground that is fertile for such poisonous systems of thought and that is what needs to be addressed, IMO.
Sure they were; Versailles was the causal condition for Nazism in all kinds of ways.
As you often do, you are overstating your case, Malcolm. http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebites ... rint.shtml

Yes, many historians hold the constraints imposed by the treaty to be the crucial factors, but that's not my point. People were susceptible to the nazi memes of jingoism, enemies within and without, racial superiority and purity and power concentrated in the hands of the Führer. Addressing these toxic notions is what I was talking about.

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Malcolm
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Re: BOUND. TORTURED. KILLED.

Post by Malcolm » Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:38 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:53 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:12 pm
Dan74 wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:43 pm

Nazis were of course 'not caused by Versailles' though it certainly made it much easier for them to rise in prominence. There is an underlying ground that is fertile for such poisonous systems of thought and that is what needs to be addressed, IMO.
Sure they were; Versailles was the causal condition for Nazism in all kinds of ways.
As you often do, you are overstating your case, Malcolm. http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebites ... rint.shtml

Yes, many historians hold the constraints imposed by the treaty to be the crucial factors, but that's not my point. People were susceptible to the nazi memes of jingoism, enemies within and without, racial superiority and purity and power concentrated in the hands of the Führer. Addressing these toxic notions is what I was talking about.
No Versailles Treaty, no Hitler. it's pretty clear.
Atikosha
Tibetan Medicine Blog
Sudarsana Mandala, Tibetan Medicine and Herbs
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

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Dan74
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Re: BOUND. TORTURED. KILLED.

Post by Dan74 » Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:49 pm

No Great Depression, no Hitler.

No nascent jingoism, no Hitler.

No disarray among other parties, no Hitler.

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Re: BOUND. TORTURED. KILLED.

Post by Arjan Dirkse » Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:10 am

When answering the question "is ISIS normal" it sorta depends what the definition of normal is. I certainly think the situation with IS is what is to be expected in Middle East.

That said, most people in the Middle East loathe IS. It is not "normal" to react to what evil was done to you by inflicting the same kind of evil on innocent victims. So in that sense we shouldn't normalize it. It is still horrible and outside of any norm.

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