Trump Tweets

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Jeff H
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Re: Trump Tweets

Post by Jeff H » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:05 pm

PuerAzaelis wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:48 am
Queequeg wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:11 am
Flynn is fried. Next up: Kushner. The knot tightens...
Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? ... The money's rolling in and this is fun. I've never seen anything like this, and this going to be a very good year for us. Sorry. It's a terrible thing to say. But, bring it on, Donald. Keep going.
CBS Chairman Les Moonves, during the 2016 campaign.

Now, stare at him again. And keep looking. If you don’t take him in, you won’t understand what this moment actually is. Yes, he’s the Dumbfounding Father of twenty-first-century America and that’s distracting, but he’s also the ultimate symptom of the unfounding of this nation, of the moment when — to slightly adapt a Cole Porter line — Plymouth Rock finally landed on us.

Truly, don’t look away from the unbelievable figure now in the White House because how else will you know where we are? And until we grasp that, until we understand that he isn’t an aberration but the zeitgeist and that simply removing him from the Oval Office won’t solve our problems, we aren’t anywhere at all.


http://www.mintpressnews.com/unfounding ... mp/235058/
This thread is all over the place -- and great fun -- but I think the article Puer referenced shouldn't be overlooked. The Tweeting Trump represents the zeitgeist of America and that is much scarier than an anomalous narcissist in the White House. Impeachment and, in fact, Trump himself are not the point.

From the same article.
Okay, it’s true. He’s presidentially bizarre in ways no one expects a leader to be (other than, perhaps, some strange autocratic ruler in Central Asia). And he’s certainly potentially dangerous. But he’s something else, too: just what late twentieth and twenty-first century America prepared us for (even though we didn’t know it). He’s the essence of where this country now is and seems to be headed.
I agree with QQ's definition of power:
Queequeg wrote: In my view, and arguably the more general view, power is not qualified as good or bad or neutral. Power is the raw capacity to move the world.
But just as the movie Network taught me that the power of wealth is not acquisition but the ability to influence economic flow, despite Trump's apparent unpopularity and legislative failures, he is moving mountains with his Barnum-like circus distracting from the dog-whistle calls to the worst power bases and his court and bureaucratic appointments. Here are some more quotes from the article.

Power.
To grasp why we can’t help staring at him, why we essentially have no choice but to do so, you need to understand something else: this sort of attention hasn’t been a fluke. … He didn’t create this particular media moment or this American world of ours either. He just grasped how it worked at some intuitive level and rode it (or perhaps it rode him) all the way to the White House.
Personalized “facts”.
In the end, it wasn’t Trump who brought it on; it was the media. And all of this took place in the midst of the rise of a social media scene in which “fake news” was becoming the order of the day and millions of eyeballs could be reached directly by any conspiracy nut or, for that matter, presidential candidate with the moxie to do it.

It was, in other words, the perfect moment for a billionaire salesman-cum-conman-cum-reality-TV-sensation to descend that escalator. Donald Trump was neither a media mistake, nor an out-of-space-and-time experience. He was a man made for our unfounding media moment.
Plutocracy.
Whatever he might now be fathering, he himself was the child, for instance, of a distinctly plutocratic moment. If we have our first billionaire in the White House, it’s only because by 2015 this country’s democratic politics had devolved (with a little helping hand from the Supreme Court) into a set of 1%, or perhaps even .01%, elections. … If the Republican Party hadn’t been sold to the Koch brothers and the Democratic Party hadn’t gone all neoliberal on us, can you really imagine working class voters putting their faith in a billionaire to make America great again for them? I doubt it.
(I read a NY Times article about how the Senate passed the tax bill, but it didn't once mention the tremendous pressure all the big campaign donors exerted on the Senators.)

Authoritarianism.
The Donald’s tendency toward authoritarianism is often treated as if it were a unique attribute of his. To believe that, however, you would have to overlook the growth in this century of a distinctly authoritarian spirit in Washington. You would have to ignore what it meant for the national security state to be ever more embedded in our ruling city. You would have to forget about the American intelligence community’s development of a historically unprecedented surveillance machinery aimed not just at the world but at American citizens as well.

The Donald’s surprising decision to surround himself with “my generals” in a fashion never before seen in Washington, even in wartime, was treated in a similarly anomalous fashion. And yet, given the Washington he entered, it was anything but. During the election campaign, candidate Trump referred to those same generals as “rubble,” while deriding the losing wars they had been fighting for so long. He seemed in some way to grasp that this was a country and a citizenry increasingly being unmade by war.
Power flip-floping.
It took him next to no time as president to tack to where Washington had been heading since 9/11. As I’ve argued elsewhere, he might better be thought of as our chameleon president: a Democrat who became a fervent Republican, a billionaire businessman who somehow convinced rural white working-class voters that he was their man, a former globalizer who’s taken off like a bat out of hell after globalizing trade pacts of every sort. He’s a man ready to alter his positions to fit the moment when it comes to everything except himself.
On the point about convincing "rural white working-class voters", here's another article I found interesting: "Racism, fundamentalism, fear and propaganda"
We who are like children shrink from pain but love its causes. - Shantideva

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TharpaChodron
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Re: Trump Tweets

Post by TharpaChodron » Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:43 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:31 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:34 pm
dzogchungpa wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:24 am



Isn't 'politics' singular?
"Politic" refers to the body politic, not politics.

OK, this is interesting. With reference to https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/searc ... q=politics I feel that TC was using 'politics' in either the second, third or fourth senses listed there and apparently in those senses it can take either a singular or plural verb, something I didn't know. I can say that as a native American English speaker I find "US politics is boring" much more natural sounding.

Garner’s Modern American Usage (3rd ed.) explains the difference this way: “Politics may be either singular or plural. Today it is more commonly singular than plural (politics is a dirty business), although formerly the opposite was true. As with similar –ics words denoting disciplines of academic and human endeavor, politics is treated as singular when it refers to the field itself (all politics is local) and as plural when it refers to a collective set of political stands (her politics were too mainstream for the party’s activists).”

Now, what about Trump's politics? Do you like it? Do you think Trump's politics is wise? :)

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Trump Tweets

Post by dzogchungpa » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:04 pm

TharpaChodron wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:43 pm
Now, what about Trump's politics? Do you like it? Do you think Trump's politics is wise? :)

No, I despise them. :smile:
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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TharpaChodron
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Re: Trump Tweets

Post by TharpaChodron » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:20 am

dzogchungpa wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:04 pm
TharpaChodron wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:43 pm
Now, what about Trump's politics? Do you like it? Do you think Trump's politics is wise? :)

No, I despise them. :smile:
#metoo

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Lindama
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Re: Trump Tweets

Post by Lindama » Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:28 am

for heavens sake, this is a classic distraction. What is happening now is not so surprising.... tragic yes, it's not his fault, he is the delusioned instrument of what is happening in this country, the time was ripe. why waste time following every silly thing, ... it's source is not hard to see. Sadly, I think we will see ruins before relief.

I've been slugging thru this article all day. Agree or disagree, it seems to me that we can see some of our complicity.

From Progressive Neoliberalism to Trump—and Beyond
https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2017 ... mp-beyond/
Not last night,
not this morning,
melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho

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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Trump Tweets

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:03 am

Lindama wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:28 am
for heavens sake, this is a classic distraction. What is happening now is not so surprising.... tragic yes, it's not his fault, he is the delusioned instrument of what is happening in this country, the time was ripe. why waste time following every silly thing, ... it's source is not hard to see. Sadly, I think we will see ruins before relief.

I've been slugging thru this article all day. Agree or disagree, it seems to me that we can see some of our complicity.

From Progressive Neoliberalism to Trump—and Beyond
https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2017 ... mp-beyond/
Fantastic article, right on the money IMO.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Trump Tweets

Post by dzogchungpa » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:26 am

Lindama wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:28 am
I've been slugging thru this article all day. Agree or disagree, it seems to me that we can see some of our complicity.

From Progressive Neoliberalism to Trump—and Beyond
https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2017 ... mp-beyond/

Well, that's way over my head but I point out that the author treats 'politics' as singular, as you can see in this paragraph:
Reactionary populism, even without Trump, is not a likely basis for such an alliance. Its hierarchical, exclusionary politics of recognition is a surefire deal-killer for major sectors of the U.S. working and middle classes, especially families dependent on wages from service work, agriculture, domestic labor, and the public sector, whose ranks include large numbers of women, immigrants, and people of color. Only an inclusive politics of recognition has a fighting chance of bringing those indispensable social forces into alliance with other sectors of the working and middle classes, including communities historically associated with manufacturing, mining, and construction.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Lindama
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Re: Trump Tweets

Post by Lindama » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:29 am

Sorry, until you read the entire article, you are mistaken. then let me know.....

This is a comprehensive and inclusive article. It is a disservice to take it out of context.


dzogchungpa wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:26 am
Lindama wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:28 am
I've been slugging thru this article all day. Agree or disagree, it seems to me that we can see some of our complicity.

From Progressive Neoliberalism to Trump—and Beyond
https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2017 ... mp-beyond/

Well, that's way over my head but I point out that the author treats 'politics' as singular, as you can see in this paragraph:
Reactionary populism, even without Trump, is not a likely basis for such an alliance. Its hierarchical, exclusionary politics of recognition is a surefire deal-killer for major sectors of the U.S. working and middle classes, especially families dependent on wages from service work, agriculture, domestic labor, and the public sector, whose ranks include large numbers of women, immigrants, and people of color. Only an inclusive politics of recognition has a fighting chance of bringing those indispensable social forces into alliance with other sectors of the working and middle classes, including communities historically associated with manufacturing, mining, and construction.
Not last night,
not this morning,
melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Trump Tweets

Post by dzogchungpa » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:37 am

Lindama wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:29 am
Sorry, until you read the entire article, you are mistaken. then let me know.....

This is a comprehensive and inclusive article. It is a disservice to take it out of context.

I was just referring to the grammatical number of the word 'politics' as used in that article, attempting to humorously allude to our previous discussion of the issue in this thread. There is actually one place where it is treated as plural:
To avoid that fate, we must break definitively both with neoliberal economics and with the various politics of recognition that have lately supported it—casting off not just exclusionary ethnonationalism but also liberal-meritocratic individualism.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Lindama
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Re: Trump Tweets

Post by Lindama » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:39 am

for goodness sake, read the article or stop..... the world as we know it deserves more

your quote does not include the reality as described in the article, the interconnectons, yada, yada...
Last edited by Lindama on Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Not last night,
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melon flowers bloomed.
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dzogchungpa
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Re: Trump Tweets

Post by dzogchungpa » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:42 am

Lindama wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:39 am
for goodness sake, read the article or stop..... the world as we know it deserves more

OK, OK, I'm sorry.

:focus:
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Lindama
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Re: Trump Tweets

Post by Lindama » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:44 am

ok, it's not an easy thing to read.... I'm nearly too old, but I got it.
:namaste:
Not last night,
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melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho

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Lindama
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Re: Trump Tweets

Post by Lindama » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:54 am

Meanwhile.... let's all hope that he and Mike keep eating bigMacs and french fries.... :popcorn:
Not last night,
not this morning,
melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho

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TharpaChodron
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Re: Trump Tweets

Post by TharpaChodron » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:57 am

dzogchungpa wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:37 am
Lindama wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:29 am
Sorry, until you read the entire article, you are mistaken. then let me know.....

This is a comprehensive and inclusive article. It is a disservice to take it out of context.

I was just referring to the grammatical number of the word 'politics' as used in that article, attempting to humorously allude to our previous discussion of the issue in this thread. There is actually one place where it is treated as plural:
To avoid that fate, we must break definitively both with neoliberal economics and with the various politics of recognition that have lately supported it—casting off not just exclusionary ethnonationalism but also liberal-meritocratic individualism.
Our Russian overlords are not amused by your grammar policing. And I am not talking about Lindama...

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Minobu
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Re: Trump Tweets

Post by Minobu » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:16 am

Lindama wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:54 am
Meanwhile.... let's all hope that he and Mike keep eating bigMacs and french fries.... :popcorn:
?so they suffer heart attacks?...?so they suffer heart attacks?...?so they suffer heart attacks?...

:heart: :group: :heart: :guns: :heart: :group: :heart:

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Lindama
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Re: Trump Tweets

Post by Lindama » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:35 am

yes
Not last night,
not this morning,
melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho

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Minobu
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Re: Trump Tweets

Post by Minobu » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:30 pm

Lindama wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:35 am
yes
if you are wishing heart attacks on people...i suggest a stint in Nichiren Daishonin's practice.

when i was young at this practice the three mile Island nuclear accident occurred, Match 28th 1979.

I was terrified of the fallout coming to toronto ...so i chanted for the wind to blow it away , and yes indeed we had a northerly wind which i was checking ..

all proud of this i told one of the Japanese senior members who actually introduced me to the practice.

the response was thus...with a deeply penetrating gaze and scowl he asked this"So you wished this to go to others?"

nothing was said on my part but i Realized the extent to what proper thinking is all about in this Buddhist practice.
wishing bad on others for your own benefit is just a road best left alone.

This practice really does afford one to be in direct presence with our Lord Buddha and have various teachings that one personally needs actually happen.

i guess my disdain for mean ness in people jumped to the forefront when mr. Iwasaki scowled at me and with little more than a question and a look induce in me a life changing moment.
it was indeed mean of me wishing bad on others and actually chanting for it to happen...even if it was like i just don;t want this stuff in my neighborhood...they caused it so let them have it then... bad...really bad ...

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Re: Trump Tweets

Post by Coëmgenu » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:47 pm

Minobu wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:30 pm
I was terrified of the fallout coming to toronto ...so i chanted for the wind to blow it away , and yes indeed we had a northerly wind which i was checking ..
Minobu's Kamikaze.
नस्वातो नापिपरतो नद्वाभ्यां नाप्यहेतुतः उत्पन्ना जातु विद्यन्ते भावाः क्वचन केचन
There absolutely are no things, nowhere and none, that arise anew, neither out of themselves, nor out of non-self, nor out of both, nor at random.
सर्वं तथ्यं न वा तथ्यं तथ्यं चातथ्यम् एव च नैवातथ्यं नैव तथ्यम् एतद् बुद्धानुशासनम्
All is so, or all is not so, both so and not so, neither so nor not so. This is the Buddha's teaching.

一切實非實亦實亦非實
非實非非實是名諸佛法

Jeff H
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Re: Trump Tweets

Post by Jeff H » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:09 pm

Minobu wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:30 pm
Lindama wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:35 am
yes
if you are wishing heart attacks on people...i suggest a stint in Nichiren Daishonin's practice.

when i was young at this practice the three mile Island nuclear accident occurred, Match 28th 1979.

I was terrified of the fallout coming to toronto ...so i chanted for the wind to blow it away , and yes indeed we had a northerly wind which i was checking ..

all proud of this i told one of the Japanese senior members who actually introduced me to the practice.

the response was thus...with a deeply penetrating gaze and scowl he asked this"So you wished this to go to others?"

nothing was said on my part but i Realized the extent to what proper thinking is all about in this Buddhist practice.
wishing bad on others for your own benefit is just a road best left alone.

This practice really does afford one to be in direct presence with our Lord Buddha and have various teachings that one personally needs actually happen.

i guess my disdain for mean ness in people jumped to the forefront when mr. Iwasaki scowled at me and with little more than a question and a look induce in me a life changing moment.
it was indeed mean of me wishing bad on others and actually chanting for it to happen...even if it was like i just don;t want this stuff in my neighborhood...they caused it so let them have it then... bad...really bad ...
Kamikaze or not, I appreciate Minobu for interjecting one of the more difficult Dharma principles -- even if it's not realpolitik in the age of Trump. I've been reflecting on lojong lately and, from the Daily Lojong website, yesterday's verse (#38) was "Don’t Seek Others’ Pain as the Limbs to Your Own Happiness".
We who are like children shrink from pain but love its causes. - Shantideva

Jeff H
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Re: Trump Tweets

Post by Jeff H » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:12 pm

Lindama wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:28 am
for heavens sake, this is a classic distraction. What is happening now is not so surprising.... tragic yes, it's not his fault, he is the delusioned instrument of what is happening in this country, the time was ripe. why waste time following every silly thing, ... it's source is not hard to see. Sadly, I think we will see ruins before relief.
I've been slugging thru this article all day. Agree or disagree, it seems to me that we can see some of our complicity.
From Progressive Neoliberalism to Trump—and Beyondhttps://americanaffairsjournal.org/2017 ... mp-beyond/
Yes, your Fraser article is a very well-reasoned and insightful one. I’d love to hear some of the politicos on DW give their comments on it (TreeHuggingOctopus comes to mind, among others). Even more, I'd like to see her vision come to fruition in America and elsewhere.

It seems to me to be the causal explanation behind the resultant symptoms described in the article PuerAzaelis posted. But in the same way that it is “not an easy thing to read”, which you had to “slog through” and are “almost too old to get”, how can her proposed alliances be articulated effectively to those who need to recognize their own, truly best interests, and then shift attitudes to act on them?

She also addressed the secondary article I had mentioned in my post about Puer’s article; the issue of a very significant segment of society that has effectively cut itself off from reasoned arguments. Fraser refers to
the hasty conclusion that the overwhelming majority of reactionary-populist voters are forever closed to appeals on behalf of an expanded working class of the sort evoked by Bernie Sanders. That view is not only empirically wrong but counterproductive, likely to be self-fulfilling.
I want to agree with Fraser, but her article doesn’t factor in the current trend of personalized facts, where people believe anything they think (or are told by people-like-us) is true.

I also don’t see her considering the very real, entrenched, extra-political power of capital; Reagan, Bill, and Obama, like congress, were merely acting under orders. It’s one thing to find a charismatic leader, but quite another for that leader to actually change the economic social order.
We who are like children shrink from pain but love its causes. - Shantideva

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