Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism

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Fa Dao
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Re: Buddhist Billionaire plans to change China

Post by Fa Dao » Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:30 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:28 am
Can we all, including me, please refrain from trolling?

Thanks.
yeaaahh...ok...wasnt aware thats what we were doing...thought we were just good-naturedly ribbing each other...
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

amanitamusc
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Re: Buddhist Billionaire plans to change China

Post by amanitamusc » Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:36 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:20 am
amanitamusc wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:00 am
DGA wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:27 am


Fascism is, by definition, a far-right political movement. There is no such thing as a "fascism of the left." That's a contradiction in terms.

The far left has its problems, of course. These are mostly to do with being totally marginalized, disorganized, undisciplined, &c.
So you would classify Vlad Pushkatin a far-right fascist or a communist that manipulates the far-right fascist movements for his benefit?
Who is Vlad Pushkatin?
Putin.

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Malcolm
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Re: Buddhist Billionaire plans to change China

Post by Malcolm » Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:44 pm

amanitamusc wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:36 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:20 am
amanitamusc wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:00 am


So you would classify Vlad Pushkatin a far-right fascist or a communist that manipulates the far-right fascist movements for his benefit?
Who is Vlad Pushkatin?
Putin.
Putin is a ultra-rightwing nationalist who controls the press in his country with an iron fist, suppresses minorities, manipulates the Russian Orthodox Church for his own ends, etc. Thus, I would say that it is fair to describe Putin as a fascist. Basically, when the Communist Party in Russia fell apart, the KGB took over the government and adopted a ultra rightwing agenda.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

amanitamusc
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Re: Buddhist Billionaire plans to change China

Post by amanitamusc » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:19 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:44 pm
amanitamusc wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:36 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:20 am
Who is Vlad Pushkatin?
Putin.
Putin is a ultra-rightwing nationalist who controls the press in his country with an iron fist, suppresses minorities, manipulates the Russian Orthodox Church for his own ends, etc. Thus, I would say that it is fair to describe Putin as a fascist. Basically, when the Communist Party in Russia fell apart, the KGB took over the government and adopted a ultra rightwing agenda.
That explains putins actions. Thanks.
How things change. At least Buddhism is still alive in Russia for the time being.

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Malcolm
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Re: Buddhist Billionaire plans to change China

Post by Malcolm » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:20 pm

amanitamusc wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:19 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:44 pm
amanitamusc wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:36 pm

Putin.
Putin is a ultra-rightwing nationalist who controls the press in his country with an iron fist, suppresses minorities, manipulates the Russian Orthodox Church for his own ends, etc. Thus, I would say that it is fair to describe Putin as a fascist. Basically, when the Communist Party in Russia fell apart, the KGB took over the government and adopted a ultra rightwing agenda.
That explains putins actions. Thanks.
How things change. At least Buddhism is still alive in Russia for the time being.

Yes, Russian morphed from leftwing totalitarianism to rightwing totalitarianism with a veneer of democracy in single generation.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

Ricky
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Re: Buddhist Billionaire plans to change China

Post by Ricky » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:23 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:20 pm
amanitamusc wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:19 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:44 pm


Putin is a ultra-rightwing nationalist who controls the press in his country with an iron fist, suppresses minorities, manipulates the Russian Orthodox Church for his own ends, etc. Thus, I would say that it is fair to describe Putin as a fascist. Basically, when the Communist Party in Russia fell apart, the KGB took over the government and adopted a ultra rightwing agenda.
That explains putins actions. Thanks.
How things change. At least Buddhism is still alive in Russia for the time being.

Yes, Russian morphed from leftwing totalitarianism to rightwing totalitarianism with a veneer of democracy in single generation.
We must liberate them from this tyranny.

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Malcolm
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Re: Buddhist Billionaire plans to change China

Post by Malcolm » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:24 pm

Ricky wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:23 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:20 pm
amanitamusc wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:19 pm


That explains putins actions. Thanks.
How things change. At least Buddhism is still alive in Russia for the time being.

Yes, Russian morphed from leftwing totalitarianism to rightwing totalitarianism with a veneer of democracy in single generation.
We must liberate them from this tyranny.
No, they need to liberate themselves.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

Ricky
Posts: 253
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:39 pm

Re: Buddhist Billionaire plans to change China

Post by Ricky » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:26 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:24 pm
Ricky wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:23 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:20 pm



Yes, Russian morphed from leftwing totalitarianism to rightwing totalitarianism with a veneer of democracy in single generation.
We must liberate them from this tyranny.
No, they need to liberate themselves.
I wasn't serious :tongue:

odysseus
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Re: Buddhist Billionaire plans to change China

Post by odysseus » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:41 pm

Fascism is neither left nor right wing, it's a way of life. The classical Fascism from Italy during WWII brought both the left and right together. China is not real Marxism as they claim to be, they are rather a remnant of good old Communism coming from Lenin, but now in modern days disguised as a free economy, only trying to hide that the main party is still a one-party dictatorship spread around a few main men in order to look like a people's rule. Just because China is doing good at economy, does not mean the last word does not still belong to "the party". And "the party" acts with it's citizens just like in The Trial by Franz Kafka.

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Malcolm
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Re: Buddhist Billionaire plans to change China

Post by Malcolm » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:45 pm

odysseus wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:41 pm
Fascism is neither left nor right wing, it's a way of life. The classical Fascism from Italy during WWII brought both the left and right together.
No, Fascism in Italy was nationalist from the beginning. It had some leftist adherents in 1919, but they were swiftly pushed out when the landowners became involved, thus anything remotely progressive about the early months of the Fascist movement vanished.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

odysseus
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Re: Buddhist Billionaire plans to change China

Post by odysseus » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:59 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:45 pm
odysseus wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:41 pm
Fascism is neither left nor right wing, it's a way of life. The classical Fascism from Italy during WWII brought both the left and right together.
No, Fascism in Italy was nationalist from the beginning. It had some leftist adherents in 1919, but they were swiftly pushed out when the landowners became involved, thus anything remotely progressive about the early months of the Fascist movement vanished.
Of course the whole point was nationalist - that's where the social nationalist party of the Nazis also came from. That's why Mussolini was able to gather so many followers, whether they came from the left or right.

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Malcolm
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Re: Buddhist Billionaire plans to change China

Post by Malcolm » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:04 pm

odysseus wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:59 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:45 pm
odysseus wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:41 pm
Fascism is neither left nor right wing, it's a way of life. The classical Fascism from Italy during WWII brought both the left and right together.
No, Fascism in Italy was nationalist from the beginning. It had some leftist adherents in 1919, but they were swiftly pushed out when the landowners became involved, thus anything remotely progressive about the early months of the Fascist movement vanished.
Of course the whole point was nationalist - that's where the social nationalist party of the Nazis also came from. That's why Mussolini was able to gather so many followers, whether they came from the left or right.

Nationalism is fundamentally a right wing phenomena since it is based on exclusion.
Last edited by Malcolm on Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Brunelleschi
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Re: Buddhist Billionaire plans to change China

Post by Brunelleschi » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:07 pm

Fa Dao wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:23 am
..also the far left is just as fascist as the far right.
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:14 am
I think the word you are searching for is "totalitarian."

The far left isn't fascist, they can't be. Why? They are not nationalist (a defining feature of all Fascist movements in history), nor are they anti-semitic or racist.

These days, the far left is made up primarily of anarchists, but there are no totalitarian anarchists. It is contradiction in terms to call anarchists either "totalitarians" or "fascists." Engaging in street violence does not make one a fascist.

Now, communists are definitely totalitarian (dictatorship of the proletariat and all that bunk), but they are a vanishingly rare breed.
:good:

Thanks. Equating the Far Right and Far Left is frankly ridiculous. It also seems to imply that the (Far) Left is just as big a (if not bigger) threat than the Far Right. Furthermore, doesn't get enough pushback as is evident by its popularity.

amanitamusc
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Re: Buddhist Billionaire plans to change China

Post by amanitamusc » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:20 pm

This thread has split and is far more interesting and is taken more seriously than the op.

I know its not a democracy but I vote for a split.

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Virgo
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Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitarianism and Fascism

Post by Virgo » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:26 pm

This topic is split from: viewtopic.php?f=47&t=27271

Thank you,

Kevin
I may have made some mistakes, but I am just a person doing his best.
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kirtu
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Re: Buddhist Billionaire plans to change China

Post by kirtu » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:19 am

amanitamusc wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:36 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:20 am
amanitamusc wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:00 am


So you would classify Vlad Pushkatin a far-right fascist or a communist that manipulates the far-right fascist movements for his benefit?
Who is Vlad Pushkatin?
Putin.
That's what I thought.

Putin revived the institution of the Russian Tsar. This has been a problem and will be a problem for Putin himself in the future. It may not be a real problem for Russia though since the instituion isn't beloved by Russians.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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cyril
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Re: Buddhist Billionaire plans to change China

Post by cyril » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:30 am

kirtu wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:19 am

That's what I thought.

Putin revived the institution of the Russian Tsar. This has been a problem and will be a problem for Putin himself in the future. It may not be a real problem for Russia though since the instituion isn't beloved by Russians.

Kirt

Unlikely

Image

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Image
"You have to make the good out of the bad because that is all you have got to make it out of."
- Robert Penn Warren -

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kirtu
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Re: Buddhist Billionaire plans to change China

Post by kirtu » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:38 am

cyril wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:30 am
kirtu wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:19 am

That's what I thought.

Putin revived the institution of the Russian Tsar. This has been a problem and will be a problem for Putin himself in the future. It may not be a real problem for Russia though since the instituion isn't beloved by Russians.

Kirt

Unlikely
....
Sure there are people devoted to Tsar Putin for various reasons. However he can't manipulate the constitution endlessly and his time will likely really be up after the coming election (which he will once again steal). The revitalized institution of the Tsar won't outlast him (which I admit is *contrary* to Russian history) and democracy in a Russian form will begin within 20 years.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

tingdzin
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Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism

Post by tingdzin » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:14 am

Malcolm wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:25 pm
I think the word you are searching for is "totalitarian."
People who deny that there is a problem with left-wing efforts at thought control, e.g. shouting down or violently assaulting those you disagree with, crashing their websites, etc. must read the news pretty selectively. Call it "fascist" or "totalitarian" it smells just as bad. Engaging in street violence may not make one a "fascist", but it does make one a thug, and there are no "goog guy" thugs.

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cyril
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Re: Buddhist Billionaire plans to change China

Post by cyril » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:31 am

kirtu wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:38 am
Sure there are people devoted to Tsar Putin for various reasons. However he can't manipulate the constitution endlessly and his time will likely really be up after the coming election (which he will once again steal). The revitalized institution of the Tsar won't outlast him (which I admit is *contrary* to Russian history) and democracy in a Russian form will begin within 20 years.

Kirt
Time will tell. But I'm afraid the economic sanctions already sown a lot of disdain in the hearts of Russian people for everything American, democracy franchise included. Most Russians I met were quite fond of Vladimir and would not give a damn if he gets one or two or seven more terms.
"You have to make the good out of the bad because that is all you have got to make it out of."
- Robert Penn Warren -

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