Wherever a Buddha appears - the world is purified

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crazy-man
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Re: Wherever a Buddha appears - the world is purified

Post by crazy-man » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:58 pm

The first precepts is: Pāṇātipātā veramaṇī sikkhāpadaṃ samādiyāmi
Panatipata is derived from the word ‘pana’ and ‘atipata’. ‘Pana’ means ‘being or life’ and ‘atipata’ means ‘end rapidly’. So, Panatipata means ‘cause an end to a being or life rapidly’ and shortly means ‘killing’.
Generally, a being is a living creature. For example, human, animal, plant, and microorganism. They have their own life. However, in Buddhism, a being has the following characteristics:
It has mind and sentient
It needs nutrition
It can move to anywhere
It can do an activity
It can be seen by naked eye.
According to the 5 points above, plant and microorganism don’t fulfill those points because plant doesn’t have mind and sentient and it can’t move to anywhere and microorganism like bacteria can’t be seen by naked eye. They surely can’t be called as ‘being’, only in Buddhism related to the first precept. The being here are only human AND animal because they have mind and sentient, can move to anywhere, and can be seen by naked eye. So, we can call human AND animal as sentient being.
If you kill a sentient being, then your action is called a killing. However, your action can’t always be said as violating the first precept. There are 5 factors that ensure whether you violated the first precept or not. They are:
There is a sentient being
You knew that the sentient being was still alive
You have the intention to kill that sentient being
You struggled to kill that sentient being
The sentient being has been killed
If you killed a sentient being with the 5 points above fulfilled, you have officially violated the precept. If only one of the 5 points above not fulfilled, you can’t be said to violate the precept. For example, if you killed a sentient being without having any intention to kill it or you don’t deliberately kill it, then you don’t violate the precept.

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Grigoris
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Re: Wherever a Buddha appears - the world is purified

Post by Grigoris » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:04 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:39 pm
With the exception of the prohibition against intoxication, the wording of the first four precepts are identical for laypeople and ordained.
I asked if the wording refers specifically to humans. For example the wording in the Abrahamaic Religions is: Thou Shalt Not Kill.
The Hebrew verb רצח‬ (r-ṣ-ḥ, also transliterated retzach, ratzákh, ratsakh etc.) is the word in the original text that is translated as "murder" or "kill", but it has a wider range of meanings, generally describing destructive activity, including meanings "to break, to dash to pieces" as well as "to slay, kill, murder".
So again it is open to interpretation. In some other sections of the Bible there is clearer reference to murder, in its technical sense, and the Ancient Jewish people were not averse to animal sacrifice, so...

But given Buddhism has at it's core ahimsa and given it's opposition to animal sacrifice, well...

That is why I am asking what the term used is.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Grigoris
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Re: Wherever a Buddha appears - the world is purified

Post by Grigoris » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:05 pm

crazy-man wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:58 pm
The first precepts is: Pāṇātipātā veramaṇī sikkhāpadaṃ samādiyāmi
Panatipata is derived from the word ‘pana’ and ‘atipata’. ‘Pana’ means ‘being or life’ and ‘atipata’ means ‘end rapidly’. So, Panatipata means ‘cause an end to a being or life rapidly’ and shortly means ‘killing’.
Generally, a being is a living creature. For example, human, animal, plant, and microorganism. They have their own life. However, in Buddhism, a being has the following characteristics:
It has mind and sentient
It needs nutrition
It can move to anywhere
It can do an activity
It can be seen by naked eye.
According to the 5 points above, plant and microorganism don’t fulfill those points because plant doesn’t have mind and sentient and it can’t move to anywhere and microorganism like bacteria can’t be seen by naked eye. They surely can’t be called as ‘being’, only in Buddhism related to the first precept. The being here are only human AND animal because they have mind and sentient, can move to anywhere, and can be seen by naked eye. So, we can call human AND animal as sentient being.
If you kill a sentient being, then your action is called a killing. However, your action can’t always be said as violating the first precept. There are 5 factors that ensure whether you violated the first precept or not. They are:
There is a sentient being
You knew that the sentient being was still alive
You have the intention to kill that sentient being
You struggled to kill that sentient being
The sentient being has been killed
If you killed a sentient being with the 5 points above fulfilled, you have officially violated the precept. If only one of the 5 points above not fulfilled, you can’t be said to violate the precept. For example, if you killed a sentient being without having any intention to kill it or you don’t deliberately kill it, then you don’t violate the precept.
I saw that after I posted, thank you.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Malcolm
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Re: Wherever a Buddha appears - the world is purified

Post by Malcolm » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:10 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:04 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:39 pm
With the exception of the prohibition against intoxication, the wording of the first four precepts are identical for laypeople and ordained.
I asked if the wording refers specifically to humans. For example the wording in the Abrahamaic Religions is: Thou Shalt Not Kill.
As I said, it is clearly discussed in the commentaries.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Grigoris
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Re: Wherever a Buddha appears - the world is purified

Post by Grigoris » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:13 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:10 pm
As I said, it is clearly discussed in the commentaries.
You are avoiding answering my question.

I am not interested in the commentaries, I am asking about the original wording.

crazy-man, thankfully, answered the question I was asking.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Grigoris
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Re: Wherever a Buddha appears - the world is purified

Post by Grigoris » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:42 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:26 pm
I thought this was Dharmawheel, not Grigoriswheel.
It is not Malcolmwheel either. There are plenty of highly regarded taechers and yogi that also read the scriptures and practiced abstaining from eating meat as a consequence. So the jury is still out on the issue and probably will be until the end of the Kali Yuga when all of us will just have forgotten about these details anyway.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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TharpaChodron
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Re: Wherever a Buddha appears - the world is purified

Post by TharpaChodron » Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:46 am

I heard a lama say that smoking is actually worse than killing...I still find that hard to fathom. I started smoking again, and as bad as it is, I can't believe my cigarette is as bad or worse than committing murder. :?

Norwegian
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Re: Wherever a Buddha appears - the world is purified

Post by Norwegian » Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:01 am

TharpaChodron wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:46 am
I heard a lama say that smoking is actually worse than killing...I still find that hard to fathom. I started smoking again, and as bad as it is, I can't believe my cigarette is as bad or worse than committing murder. :?
Smoking is really bad because it blocks ones channels, and supposedly makes it very hard to successfully practice Tantra. Then of course there's also the issue of how it pollutes the environment.

Here's a thread where this topic was briefly discussed, I quoted some traditional statements on tobacco smoking from the point of view of Vajrayana here: viewtopic.php?t=23290#p349182

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Wherever a Buddha appears - the world is purified

Post by dzogchungpa » Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:34 am

dzogchungpa wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:43 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:03 pm
Did you and Ma visit the shrine? How was it?

We didn't get a chance yet but I will report back when we do, hopefully soon.

OK, we went today. It was actually very touching. An extremely nice Vietnamese woman gave us some packages of cookies that had been left as an offering, "for good luck", and gave dzogchungma a hug.

Here are some pictures:

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There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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