Weed is now legal in California

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Ricky
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Re: Weed is now legal in California

Post by Ricky » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:04 am

dzogchungpa wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:35 pm
Ricky wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:52 pm
aflatun wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:10 pm


I've heard that, and I think I believe it. For example Giovanni's pizzeria in Sunnyvale,CA is run by some Italian gents from my old haunts on Strwang Island...they clearly know what they're doing (open shirt collars, tons of chest hairs poking out at you, gold chains and maybe even slicked hair...like I said, clearly know what they're doing) but as good as the pizza and garlic knots are, there's still something off about the damn crust and sauce. :techproblem:
Does some of that oily chest hair ever fall off and get baked into the pizza?


That would really give new meaning to the expression "hair pie".
I don't know but I've never tried a hair pie before. Is it just as good as a non-hair one?

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Weed is now legal in California

Post by dzogchungpa » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:14 am

Ricky wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:04 am
dzogchungpa wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:35 pm
Ricky wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:52 pm
Does some of that oily chest hair ever fall off and get baked into the pizza?
That would really give new meaning to the expression "hair pie".
I don't know but I've never tried a hair pie before. Is it just as good as a non-hair one?

I prefer the non-hair variety, but YMMV.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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PuerAzaelis
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Re: Weed is now legal in California

Post by PuerAzaelis » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:29 am

Queequeg wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:10 am
You know, anatman, sunyata. The search for meaning is impossible.
A satyagrahi is sometimes bound to use language which is capable of two meanings, provided both the meanings are obvious and necessary and there is no intention to deceive anyone.
Mahatma Gandhi
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind

For posts from this user, see Karma Dondrup Tashi account.

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Queequeg
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Re: Weed is now legal in California

Post by Queequeg » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:55 am

PuerAzaelis wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:29 am
Queequeg wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:10 am
You know, anatman, sunyata. The search for meaning is impossible.
A satyagrahi is sometimes bound to use language which is capable of two meanings, provided both the meanings are obvious and necessary and there is no intention to deceive anyone.
Mahatma Gandhi
Meaning is not quite clear. :smile:
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

climb-up
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Re: Weed is now legal in California

Post by climb-up » Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:07 am

dzogchungpa wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:14 am
Ricky wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:04 am
dzogchungpa wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:35 pm


That would really give new meaning to the expression "hair pie".
I don't know but I've never tried a hair pie before. Is it just as good as a non-hair one?

I prefer the non-hair variety, but YMMV.
UMMMM...
....
....nevermind! :rolling:

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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Weed is now legal in California

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:48 am

Queequeg wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:18 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:18 am
Reggie Ray has some interesting views on this sort of thing, oddly I'd heard similar years ago from my uncle, who among other things studied anthropology.

Basically what Ray contends is that a lot of the 'inborn' tendency towards addiction, accumulation etc. Is due to the divorce from 'natural' patterns of living that existed prior to the agricultural revolution. I personally find the argument anecdotally compelling. I suspect that conventionally some of our dysfunction (addiction etc.) has nothing to do with biological determinism, but is a reaction to the screwy lives we lead in ' late samsara'.

That's why the best treatment programs (you know, the ones for rich people) often attempt a return to a 'simpler' form of living.
Maybe. There is something garden of Eden about it though... A mythical time when all was well.

From the records we have, of civilizations coming in contact with Hunter gatherer tribes, they sound like vicious people. The Chinese built a wall to keep them out, and the Romans have some stories about fighting them. I'm not saying it's not true, but along with the whole Paleo diet thing, it sounds like there's a lot of projection and speculation about how great it is to live by the hunt. A fiction like Locke's idea about life before social contract.
Oh, you mean like human beings originally being Asparas etc. And their downfall being greed and sensual pleasure? Don't need the Garden of Eden story for the gist.

It's been a while since I've looked into this stuff, so my memory is murky, but iirc there a number of anthropologists who claim that true hunter gatherer societies were compatively quite a bit less violent..at least in some respects. I would have to read up again to be sure. Agriculture and land onwership is quite the incentive.

The Mongols, nomadic tribes sack8ng Rome et. hardly qualify as a hunter gatherer society, and its also hard to evaluate them on anything but an individual basis, plus they are in competition..other than cannibalism, it's hard to imagine what you think could be more 'vicious' than the horrors that civilization has brought us.

Id be happy seeing them as equivalently 'bad' possibly, but the idea that civilized people are less violent strikes me as a conveneint fiction.

How is it related?

People are crazy as hell today. Half the population experiences mental anguish (illness f you prefer, I dont), it is not a coincidence that as we 'advance' our happiness declines in many ways. There are alot of moving parts for sure, but I find it convincing that at least a good chunk of our estrangement is due to a sense of disconnection with the elements, natural cycles, etc.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

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Thomas Amundsen
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Re: Weed is now legal in California

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:41 am

One thing that hasn't been touched upon here. I think pot can help one understand the body's energy system related to sex. It might reduce mindfulness/recollection, but it sure increases the sensitivity to sexual experience, at least for me. :mrgreen:

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Grigoris
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Re: Weed is now legal in California

Post by Grigoris » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:52 am

Queequeg wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:18 am
From the records we have, of civilizations coming in contact with Hunter gatherer tribes, they sound like vicious people.
I imagine I would be vicious if I had to protect my family (tribe) and myself from destructive colonial encroachment, slavery and extinction.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Queequeg
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Re: Weed is now legal in California

Post by Queequeg » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:03 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:48 am
Queequeg wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:18 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:18 am
Reggie Ray has some interesting views on this sort of thing, oddly I'd heard similar years ago from my uncle, who among other things studied anthropology.

Basically what Ray contends is that a lot of the 'inborn' tendency towards addiction, accumulation etc. Is due to the divorce from 'natural' patterns of living that existed prior to the agricultural revolution. I personally find the argument anecdotally compelling. I suspect that conventionally some of our dysfunction (addiction etc.) has nothing to do with biological determinism, but is a reaction to the screwy lives we lead in ' late samsara'.

That's why the best treatment programs (you know, the ones for rich people) often attempt a return to a 'simpler' form of living.
Maybe. There is something garden of Eden about it though... A mythical time when all was well.

From the records we have, of civilizations coming in contact with Hunter gatherer tribes, they sound like vicious people. The Chinese built a wall to keep them out, and the Romans have some stories about fighting them. I'm not saying it's not true, but along with the whole Paleo diet thing, it sounds like there's a lot of projection and speculation about how great it is to live by the hunt. A fiction like Locke's idea about life before social contract.
Oh, you mean like human beings originally being Asparas etc. And their downfall being greed and sensual pleasure? Don't need the Garden of Eden story for the gist.

It's been a while since I've looked into this stuff, so my memory is murky, but iirc there a number of anthropologists who claim that true hunter gatherer societies were compatively quite a bit less violent..at least in some respects. I would have to read up again to be sure. Agriculture and land onwership is quite the incentive.

The Mongols, nomadic tribes sack8ng Rome et. hardly qualify as a hunter gatherer society, and its also hard to evaluate them on anything but an individual basis, plus they are in competition..other than cannibalism, it's hard to imagine what you think could be more 'vicious' than the horrors that civilization has brought us.

Id be happy seeing them as equivalently 'bad' possibly, but the idea that civilized people are less violent strikes me as a conveneint fiction.

How is it related?

People are crazy as hell today. Half the population experiences mental anguish (illness f you prefer, I dont), it is not a coincidence that as we 'advance' our happiness declines in many ways. There are alot of moving parts for sure, but I find it convincing that at least a good chunk of our estrangement is due to a sense of disconnection with the elements, natural cycles, etc.
I don't particularly disagree. But positing agricultural society as evil and Hunter gatherer as ideal - I'm skeptical. They've found skulls from tens of thousands of years ago and they are remarkably like our own. It was all still samsara. I know farmers and while their business can be difficult,. On the whole they seem content with their lives. I also know people who work long hours completely divorced from natural cycles who are content. Anyways we can go around and around with anecdotal stories.

That said, I also tend to suspect that many of our problems are due to estrangement from nature and the natural cycles that we evolved in. But more broadly, we are estranged from reality - we don't understand what's going on. We are ignorant - the cause of samsara.

Obesity is correlated with poverty. I tend to believe a lot of that has to do with ignorance of basic dietary science. Ignorance tends to also have a correlation with poverty, also. Ignorance lies at the heart of a lot of the problems of poverty. This speaking of the US. Poverty in the developing world is a different animal, i think.

Point is, ignorance is the real problem. Ignorance causes us to do all these stupid cruel things.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Queequeg
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Re: Weed is now legal in California

Post by Queequeg » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:14 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:52 am
Queequeg wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:18 am
From the records we have, of civilizations coming in contact with Hunter gatherer tribes, they sound like vicious people.
I imagine I would be vicious if I had to protect my family (tribe) and myself from destructive colonial encroachment, slavery and extinction.
There's no indication the Huns were being enslaved. No indication the Mongols or Manchus were being enslaved.

If you're talking about people at levels of development like tribes in the jungles of Borneo and the Amazon, you're trying to peer back into the mists of history. Maybe, but I'm skeptical it was such an ideal.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Malcolm
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Re: Weed is now legal in California

Post by Malcolm » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:40 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:14 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:52 am
Queequeg wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:18 am
From the records we have, of civilizations coming in contact with Hunter gatherer tribes, they sound like vicious people.
I imagine I would be vicious if I had to protect my family (tribe) and myself from destructive colonial encroachment, slavery and extinction.
There's no indication the Huns were being enslaved. No indication the Mongols or Manchus were being enslaved.

If you're talking about people at levels of development like tribes in the jungles of Borneo and the Amazon, you're trying to peer back into the mists of history. Maybe, but I'm skeptical it was such an ideal.
With respect to Amazonian Indians there is increasing evidence that they are the remnant of much more vast, populous civilization that collapsed in the century following the arrival of Colombus from disease. We know this because of the discovery of vast tracts of datable, prepared soil in many parts of the Amazon basin.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Grigoris
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Re: Weed is now legal in California

Post by Grigoris » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:05 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:14 pm
There's no indication the Huns were being enslaved. No indication the Mongols or Manchus were being enslaved.
Which is completely irrelevant since the discussion was about the viciousness of hunter-gatherers and none of the aforementioned were hunter-gatherers.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Jeff H
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Re: Weed is now legal in California

Post by Jeff H » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:11 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:03 pm
...Anyways we can go around and around with anecdotal stories.

That said, I also tend to suspect that many of our problems are due to estrangement from nature and the natural cycles that we evolved in. But more broadly, we are estranged from reality - we don't understand what's going on. We are ignorant - the cause of samsara.

Obesity is correlated with poverty. I tend to believe a lot of that has to do with ignorance of basic dietary science. Ignorance tends to also have a correlation with poverty, also. Ignorance lies at the heart of a lot of the problems of poverty. This speaking of the US. Poverty in the developing world is a different animal, i think.

Point is, ignorance is the real problem. Ignorance causes us to do all these stupid cruel things.
But is that the same ignorance as not understanding dietary science leading to obesity? When I was a pampered teenager living at home, I sincerely imagined that if I was poor and alone, I’d certainly apply the rules of good nutrition to live simply and be healthy. When I became poor and alone I didn’t. And doesn’t the ignorance Buddha taught lead just as much to pervasive suffering in wealth as in poverty?

I agree that looking for intra-samsaric causes is useful for trying to ease the suffering of beings within conventional life. But debating which conventional causes and results are the worst seems to overlook the point that every conventional phenomenon carries the seeds of its own destruction in its inception.
HHDL in The Four Noble Truths wrote:It is important to bear in mind that there are two levels of meaning here. One can understand impermanence in terms of how something arises, stays for a while, and then disappears. This level of impermanence can be understood quite easily. We should add that on this level, the dissolution of something requires a secondary condition which acts as a catalyst to destroy its continuity. However, there is also a second, more subtle understanding of transience. From this more subtle perspective, the obvious process of change we have just described is merely the effect of a deeper, underlying and dynamic process of change. At a deeper level, everything is changing from moment to moment, constantly. This process of momentary change is not due to a secondary condition that arises to destroy something, but rather the very cause that led a thing to arise is also the cause of its destruction. In other words, within the cause of its origin lies the cause of its cessation.
We who are like children shrink from pain but love its causes. - Shantideva

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Weed is now legal in California

Post by dzogchungpa » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:37 pm

Thomas Amundsen wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:41 am
One thing that hasn't been touched upon here. I think pot can help one understand the body's energy system related to sex. It might reduce mindfulness/recollection, but it sure increases the sensitivity to sexual experience, at least for me. :mrgreen:


Yes, you're what we call an "enhancement smoker". :smile:
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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aflatun
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Re: Weed is now legal in California

Post by aflatun » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:54 pm

Virgo wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:13 pm
I like dominos?

Kevin
Who doesn't? But only at desperate times (like 1 am :twothumbsup: )
"People often get too quick to say 'there's no self. There's no self...no self...no self.' There is self, there is focal point, its not yours. That's what not self is."

Ninoslav Ñāṇamoli
Senses and the Thought-1, 42:53

"Those who create constructs about the Buddha,
Who is beyond construction and without exhaustion,
Are thereby damaged by their constructs;
They fail to see the Thus-Gone.

That which is the nature of the Thus-Gone
Is also the nature of this world.
There is no nature of the Thus-Gone.
There is no nature of the world."

Nagarjuna
MMK XXII.15-16

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aflatun
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Re: Weed is now legal in California

Post by aflatun » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:59 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:35 pm
Ricky wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:52 pm
aflatun wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:10 pm


I've heard that, and I think I believe it. For example Giovanni's pizzeria in Sunnyvale,CA is run by some Italian gents from my old haunts on Strwang Island...they clearly know what they're doing (open shirt collars, tons of chest hairs poking out at you, gold chains and maybe even slicked hair...like I said, clearly know what they're doing) but as good as the pizza and garlic knots are, there's still something off about the damn crust and sauce. :techproblem:
Does some of that oily chest hair ever fall off and get baked into the pizza?


That would really give new meaning to the expression "hair pie".
:lol: I'm certain that kind of grossness happens fairly frequently
"People often get too quick to say 'there's no self. There's no self...no self...no self.' There is self, there is focal point, its not yours. That's what not self is."

Ninoslav Ñāṇamoli
Senses and the Thought-1, 42:53

"Those who create constructs about the Buddha,
Who is beyond construction and without exhaustion,
Are thereby damaged by their constructs;
They fail to see the Thus-Gone.

That which is the nature of the Thus-Gone
Is also the nature of this world.
There is no nature of the Thus-Gone.
There is no nature of the world."

Nagarjuna
MMK XXII.15-16

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Thomas Amundsen
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Re: Weed is now legal in California

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:12 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:37 pm
Thomas Amundsen wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:41 am
One thing that hasn't been touched upon here. I think pot can help one understand the body's energy system related to sex. It might reduce mindfulness/recollection, but it sure increases the sensitivity to sexual experience, at least for me. :mrgreen:


Yes, you're what we call an "enhancement smoker". :smile:
This is true.

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Coëmgenu
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Re: Weed is now legal in California

Post by Coëmgenu » Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:36 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:40 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:14 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:52 am
I imagine I would be vicious if I had to protect my family (tribe) and myself from destructive colonial encroachment, slavery and extinction.
There's no indication the Huns were being enslaved. No indication the Mongols or Manchus were being enslaved.

If you're talking about people at levels of development like tribes in the jungles of Borneo and the Amazon, you're trying to peer back into the mists of history. Maybe, but I'm skeptical it was such an ideal.
With respect to Amazonian Indians there is increasing evidence that they are the remnant of much more vast, populous civilization that collapsed in the century following the arrival of Colombus from disease. We know this because of the discovery of vast tracts of datable, prepared soil in many parts of the Amazon basin.
America Before Columbus is a very good documentary that deals with essentially the same thing, but with the very advanced land-management systems of the North American indigenous peoples, rather than the building of much of "the Amazon" my South American Indigenous peoples.
नस्वातो नापिपरतो नद्वाभ्यां नाप्यहेतुतः उत्पन्ना जातु विद्यन्ते भावाः क्वचन केचन
There absolutely are no things, nowhere and none, that arise anew, neither out of themselves, nor out of non-self, nor out of both, nor at random.
सर्वं तथ्यं न वा तथ्यं तथ्यं चातथ्यम् एव च नैवातथ्यं नैव तथ्यम् एतद् बुद्धानुशासनम्
All is so, or all is not so, both so and not so, neither so nor not so. This is the Buddha's teaching.

一切實非實亦實亦非實
非實非非實是名諸佛法

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Weed is now legal in California

Post by dzogchungpa » Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:03 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:36 pm
America Before Columbus is a very good documentary that deals with essentially the same thing, but with the very advanced land-management systems of the North American indigenous peoples, rather than the building of much of "the Amazon" my South American Indigenous peoples.

You ever seen America Before Columbus...on weed?
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Virgo
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Re: Weed is now legal in California

Post by Virgo » Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:18 am

Malcolm wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:40 pm
With respect to Amazonian Indians there is increasing evidence that they are the remnant of much more vast, populous civilization that collapsed in the century following the arrival of Colombus from disease. We know this because of the discovery of vast tracts of datable, prepared soil in many parts of the Amazon basin.
I was at the place of Colombus once called Puerto Plata where he first "discovered the New World." Beautiful place. The Taino people are also quite beautiful.

Kevin

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