Wolff book about Trump

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PeterC
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Re: Wolff book about Trump

Post by PeterC » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:24 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:56 pm
PeterC wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:58 am
It would still not be a good idea to bet on a Democrat win in 2020. It is their absolute, pathetic failure as a party that has given us Trump's farcical presidency just as much as it was the venality of the Republicans. The same combination could quite possibly give us President Pence in 2020 if Trump has crashed and burned by that point. A Democrat senate this year is certainly possible, but that's the most we can reasonably hope for.
Actually, the Dems took the popular vote by more than 3 million. Had they run anyone other than Clinton, they would have won hands down. The Green Party, once again, screwed the Dems and left us with Trump. It is a fact that the Green Party took enough votes away from the Dems in Penn, Oh, and Wis to turn the electoral college in favor of Trump.

Absolutely. The proverbial blind monkey should have been able to win it for the democrats. And yet, they persisted in snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

The republicans care profoundly about winning at any cost, and will sell out any and all of their principles, to the extent that they have any left, to remain in power. The democrats generally care more about principles and less about results, and election outcomes reflect that. Congress is lost forever due to the gerrymandering, as are many state legislatures. While they still have control of the senate, federal courts will be stuffed with right-wing idealogues by the time we get to the mid-terms. Even if they retake the senate in 2018 and the presidency in 2020, the democrats will be a long way from having the power needed to govern. It's painful to say this, but I despair of the democrats ever getting their shit together at this point.

The electoral college should be consigned to the dustbin of history. It was intended to avoid a geographic segmentation of the electorate, though it's not clear it was ever really needed for that. It's now perpetuated an absurd situation where the presidential elections turn on a vanishingly small number of counties. Pretty sure Madison et al never in their worst nightmares imagined this.

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Malcolm
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Re: Wolff book about Trump

Post by Malcolm » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:33 pm

PeterC wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:24 pm


The electoral college should be consigned to the dustbin of history. It was intended to avoid a geographic segmentation of the electorate, though it's not clear it was ever really needed for that. It's now perpetuated an absurd situation where the presidential elections turn on a vanishingly small number of counties. Pretty sure Madison et al never in their worst nightmares imagined this.
The Electoral college was about preserving slavery, actually.

Luckily SCOTUS is reviewing not one, but two challenges to unfair gerrymandering.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Virgo
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Re: Wolff book about Trump

Post by Virgo » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:37 pm

PeterC wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:24 pm
The democrats generally care more about principles and less about results, and election outcomes reflect that.
As demonstrated by Clinton, and by the DNC's engagement in massive voter fraud?

Come on Peter, the Dems are corrupt as can be, as well as bought and paid for, just as the other party is.

Also it is the DNC's fault that Trump won. Bernie was polling better against Trump, yet they still nominated Hillary.

Kevin
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གདེང་གྲོལ་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅའ། །

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PeterC
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Re: Wolff book about Trump

Post by PeterC » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:46 am

Virgo wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:37 pm
PeterC wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:24 pm
The democrats generally care more about principles and less about results, and election outcomes reflect that.
As demonstrated by Clinton, and by the DNC's engagement in massive voter fraud?

Come on Peter, the Dems are corrupt as can be, as well as bought and paid for, just as the other party is.

Also it is the DNC's fault that Trump won. Bernie was polling better against Trump, yet they still nominated Hillary.

Kevin
I'm not sure I can agree. Yes, they are dirty, all political parties are to some extent. But these things are relative. There are many, many things that the republicans will happily do that the democrats won't.

PeterC
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Re: Wolff book about Trump

Post by PeterC » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:53 am

Malcolm wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:33 pm
PeterC wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:24 pm


The electoral college should be consigned to the dustbin of history. It was intended to avoid a geographic segmentation of the electorate, though it's not clear it was ever really needed for that. It's now perpetuated an absurd situation where the presidential elections turn on a vanishingly small number of counties. Pretty sure Madison et al never in their worst nightmares imagined this.
The Electoral college was about preserving slavery, actually.

Luckily SCOTUS is reviewing not one, but two challenges to unfair gerrymandering.
Those will be interesting. But I'm not particularly hopeful. If you look at the oral arguments in Gill v. Whitford, it's clear that the justices really struggle with these cases. They don't like the practices involved - even Alito was calling it 'distasteful' - but the petitioners are asking them to design a rule based on a statistical model, and fundamentally these are appellant judges who mostly have an aversion to trawling through numbers. I felt that most of the court - probably not Gorsuch, and Thomas never speaks at oral arguments, but probably all the rest - wanted to find a solution to address this, but it's not at all obvious from either the briefs or the arguments what that solution would look like.

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Fa Dao
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Re: Wolff book about Trump

Post by Fa Dao » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:44 am

If a way isn't found that would give each state equal say in how the country is governed it simply wont work...states will end up wanting to secede from the union. I have lived or visited all over the country and there is no way say Montana or Wyoming or New Mexico would be happy with the way say New York or California would have the country run. Face it, the electoral college isn't great but its better than everything else out there...sad but true
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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Malcolm
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Re: Wolff book about Trump

Post by Malcolm » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:53 pm

Fa Dao wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:44 am
If a way isn't found that would give each state equal say in how the country is governed it simply wont work...states will end up wanting to secede from the union. I have lived or visited all over the country and there is no way say Montana or Wyoming or New Mexico would be happy with the way say New York or California would have the country run. Face it, the electoral college isn't great but its better than everything else out there...sad but true
Yeah, well, we blue states are sick to death of our taxes supporting the red states inability to pay their own fricking way. Fact, overall, people in red states use more federal dollars than they pay out in federal taxes.

The reality is that the electoral college disenfranchises the urban/blue state vote. That shit just isn't going to stand.

Statistically determined electoral distracts will eliminate the need for the EC and gerrymandering. It's the way to go.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Fa Dao
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Re: Wolff book about Trump

Post by Fa Dao » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:21 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:53 pm
Fa Dao wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:44 am
If a way isn't found that would give each state equal say in how the country is governed it simply wont work...states will end up wanting to secede from the union. I have lived or visited all over the country and there is no way say Montana or Wyoming or New Mexico would be happy with the way say New York or California would have the country run. Face it, the electoral college isn't great but its better than everything else out there...sad but true
Yeah, well, we blue states are sick to death of our taxes supporting the red states inability to pay their own fricking way. Fact, overall, people in red states use more federal dollars than they pay out in federal taxes.

The reality is that the electoral college disenfranchises the urban/blue state vote. That shit just isn't going to stand.

Statistically determined electoral distracts will eliminate the need for the EC and gerrymandering. It's the way to go.
CA is a blue state and although I haven't seen the figures as you apparently have I find it hard to believe they are not using more than their fair share as you say the red states are doing. That being said, I'm not familiar with statistically determined electoral districts but as long as it preserves each states rights and doesn't put CA, NY, and TX in control of the entire country then cool, right?
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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Queequeg
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Re: Wolff book about Trump

Post by Queequeg » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:48 pm

Electoral College (and Senate, for that matter) = Taxation without representation

We (Blue States) have acquiesced to paying more in than we get because with it we were able to force civil rights on Bull Connor and the rest of those yokels and environmental regulations on short sighted resource extractors hiding under cover of libertarianism. The bargain is becoming harder to stomach, but we have enough cretinous bankers in our ranks that if money can be extracted from all that, we will continue to take it. There will be a threshold though. How and when we hit it is impossible to predict.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

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Malcolm
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Re: Wolff book about Trump

Post by Malcolm » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:53 pm

Fa Dao wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:21 pm

CA is a blue state and although I haven't seen the figures as you apparently have I find it hard to believe they are not using more than their fair share as you say the red states are doing. That being said, I'm not familiar with statistically determined electoral districts but as long as it preserves each states rights and doesn't put CA, NY, and TX in control of the entire country then cool, right?
California receives less than a dollar back for every dollar they send to DC.
For nearly 80 years, poorer, low-tax states — where anti-government ideology and hostility to Washington, D.C., have generally flourished — have benefited disproportionately from federal spending.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mad ... 6d3d359241
What the resulting map shows is that the most “dependent states,” as measured by the composite score, are Mississippi and New Mexico, each of which gets back about $3 in federal spending for every dollar they send to the federal treasury in taxes. Alabama and Louisiana are close behind.
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/ar ... rs/361668/
[W]ho really benefits from government spending? If you listen to Rush Limbaugh, you might think it was those blue states, packed with damn hippie socialist liberals, sipping their lattes and providing free abortions for bored, horny teenagers. ...

As it turns out, it is red states that are overwhelmingly the Welfare Queen States. Yes, that's right. Red States—the ones governed by folks who think government is too big and spending needs to be cut—are a net drain on the economy, taking in more federal spending than they pay out in federal taxes. They talk a good game, but stick Blue States with the bill.
http://www.businessinsider.com/red-stat ... 1-8#!IpqnG
The extent to which the average American’s tax burden varies based on his or her state of residence represents a significant point of differentiation among state economies. But it’s only one piece of the puzzle.

What if, for example, a particular state can afford not to tax its residents at high rates because it receives disproportionately more funding from the federal government than states with apparently oppressive tax codes? That would change the narrative significantly, revealing federal dependence where bold, efficient stewardship was once thought to preside.

The idea of the American freeloader burst into the public consciousness when #47percent started trending on Twitter in 2012. And while the notion is senselessly insulting to millions of hardworking Americans, it is true that some states receive a far higher return on their federal income-tax contributions than others.

Just how pronounced is this disparity? And to what extent does it alter our perception of state and local tax rates around the country? WalletHub sought to answer those questions by comparing the 50 states in terms of three key metrics. Read on for our findings, expert commentary and a detailed methodology.
https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-l ... ment/2700/
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

boda
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Re: Wolff book about Trump

Post by boda » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:07 pm

Fact, overall, people in red states use more federal dollars than they pay out in federal taxes.
But ideologically opposed to entitlements, oddly.

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Malcolm
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Re: Wolff book about Trump

Post by Malcolm » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:13 pm

boda wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:07 pm
Fact, overall, people in red states use more federal dollars than they pay out in federal taxes.
But ideologically opposed to entitlements, oddly.
Yes, our friend Fa Dao is a red state freeloader. :-)
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Fa Dao
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Re: Wolff book about Trump

Post by Fa Dao » Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:53 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:13 pm
boda wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:07 pm
Fact, overall, people in red states use more federal dollars than they pay out in federal taxes.
But ideologically opposed to entitlements, oddly.
Yes, our friend Fa Dao is a red state freeloader. :-)
:rolling: not actually from here...from one of the "bluer" states....but I guess we all have our "demons" to deal with eh? ;-)
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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Malcolm
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Re: Wolff book about Trump

Post by Malcolm » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:15 pm

Fa Dao wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:53 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:13 pm
boda wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:07 pm


But ideologically opposed to entitlements, oddly.
Yes, our friend Fa Dao is a red state freeloader. :-)
:rolling: not actually from here...from one of the "bluer" states....but I guess we all have our "demons" to deal with eh? ;-)
You live there, that's enough. :-) Anyway, New Mexico is awesome. If I were to live anywhere other than here in MA, it would be New Mexico.

Anyway, the main point is that red states are the taker states, where as the blue states are the maker states. So sure, reduce my taxes, the red states only put themselves deeper in the hole.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Fa Dao
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Re: Wolff book about Trump

Post by Fa Dao » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:25 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:15 pm
Fa Dao wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:53 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:13 pm


Yes, our friend Fa Dao is a red state freeloader. :-)
:rolling: not actually from here...from one of the "bluer" states....but I guess we all have our "demons" to deal with eh? ;-)
You live there, that's enough. :-) Anyway, New Mexico is awesome. If I were to live anywhere other than here in MA, it would be New Mexico.

Anyway, the main point is that red states are the taker states, where as the blue states are the maker states. So sure, reduce my taxes, the red states only put themselves deeper in the hole.
And all of this is why I am slowly slowly divorcing myself from politics...a very tangled web indeed
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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Queequeg
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Re: Wolff book about Trump

Post by Queequeg » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:35 pm

Fa Dao wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:25 pm
And all of this is why I am slowly slowly divorcing myself from politics...a very tangled web indeed
Please stay involved and make your state politicians live up to their Red State ideals. I need a tax break.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

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