Indus Valley people & genetics

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Nicholas Weeks
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Indus Valley people & genetics

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:13 pm

In a month or so, some scientific journal will present the results of the DNA from some very old (4600?) skeletons. Here are four possible outcomes given in this report:

https://nexusnewsfeed.com/article/ancie ... vilisation
Glorious one, creator of all goodness, Mañjuśrī, his glorious eminence!
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Malcolm
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Re: Indus Valley people & genetics

Post by Malcolm » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:21 pm

Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:13 pm
In a month or so, some scientific journal will present the results of the DNA from some very old (4600?) skeletons. Here are four possible outcomes given in this report:

https://nexusnewsfeed.com/article/ancie ... vilisation
Fascinating. I hope this settle once and for all the question of who the Harappans were. Personally, I am betting on the Elamite connection.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

MiphamFan
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Re: Indus Valley people & genetics

Post by MiphamFan » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:49 pm

There has already been Indian/Himalayan (possibly even Tibetan) mtDNA found in ancient Syrian corpses: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/articl ... ne.0073682

It will definitely be interesting to see if there is evidence of the reverse (Mesopotamian DNA in Indian corpses).

SunWuKong
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Re: Indus Valley people & genetics

Post by SunWuKong » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:59 pm

And Indus Valley had something like yoga or meditation or tantra goin on. We’ll be standing by waiting on this one.
"We are magical animals that roam" ~ Roam

tingdzin
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Re: Indus Valley people & genetics

Post by tingdzin » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:15 am

SunWuKong wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:59 pm
And Indus Valley had something like yoga or meditation or tantra goin on. We’ll be standing by waiting on this one.
There's no real proof of this -- the famous seal of the crosslegged sitter can be and has been interpreted in many different ways.

Tiago Simões
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Re: Indus Valley people & genetics

Post by Tiago Simões » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:25 am

Apologize for my ignorance of the subject... But could someone summarize what implications this study will have?
Then, the Licchavi Vimalakīrti spoke to the elder Śāriputra and the great disciples: “Reverends, eat of the food of the Tathāgata! It is ambrosia perfumed by the great compassion. But do not fix your minds in narrow-minded attitudes, lest you be unable to receive its gift.”

- Chapter 9, The Feast Brought by the Emanated Incarnation
The Noble Mahāyāna Sūtra “The Teaching of Vimalakīrti”

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Malcolm
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Re: Indus Valley people & genetics

Post by Malcolm » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:39 pm

tiagolps wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:25 am
Apologize for my ignorance of the subject... But could someone summarize what implications this study will have?
It will help settle the long standing debate between Western scholars and Hindutva adherents. The former claim Indo-European peoples gradually penetrated India between 1500 BCE and 1000 BCE. The latter claim that Harappa shows that India had a continuous unbroken civilization and that there was no Āryan invasion and that IE languages and people came from India originally.

Personally, I think the Hindutva people are nuts.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

Tiago Simões
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Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:41 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: Indus Valley people & genetics

Post by Tiago Simões » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:59 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:39 pm
tiagolps wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:25 am
Apologize for my ignorance of the subject... But could someone summarize what implications this study will have?
It will help settle the long standing debate between Western scholars and Hindutva adherents. The former claim Indo-European peoples gradually penetrated India between 1500 BCE and 1000 BCE. The latter claim that Harappa shows that India had a continuous unbroken civilization and that there was no Āryan invasion and that IE languages and people came from India originally.

Personally, I think the Hindutva people are nuts.
Ah thanks! Yes the Hindutva peoples view doesn't make sense.
Then, the Licchavi Vimalakīrti spoke to the elder Śāriputra and the great disciples: “Reverends, eat of the food of the Tathāgata! It is ambrosia perfumed by the great compassion. But do not fix your minds in narrow-minded attitudes, lest you be unable to receive its gift.”

- Chapter 9, The Feast Brought by the Emanated Incarnation
The Noble Mahāyāna Sūtra “The Teaching of Vimalakīrti”

SunWuKong
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Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:15 pm

Re: Indus Valley people & genetics

Post by SunWuKong » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:11 pm

tingdzin wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:15 am
SunWuKong wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:59 pm
And Indus Valley had something like yoga or meditation or tantra goin on. We’ll be standing by waiting on this one.
There's no real proof of this -- the famous seal of the crosslegged sitter can be and has been interpreted in many different ways.
Okay. Some suggest it’s a shaman. Still , Buddhism, yoga, shamanism shares the common feature of dissolution of the subject/object delusion. I view it all as “civilized” practices of what humanity has always had as a birthright
"We are magical animals that roam" ~ Roam

SunWuKong
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Re: Indus Valley people & genetics

Post by SunWuKong » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:33 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:39 pm
tiagolps wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:25 am
Apologize for my ignorance of the subject... But could someone summarize what implications this study will have?
It will help settle the long standing debate between Western scholars and Hindutva adherents. The former claim Indo-European peoples gradually penetrated India between 1500 BCE and 1000 BCE. The latter claim that Harappa shows that India had a continuous unbroken civilization and that there was no Āryan invasion and that IE languages and people came from India originally.

Personally, I think the Hindutva people are nuts.
Clearly. Scholars believe that Arayan invaders came out of the steppes, as most effective warring people do, and that the Mahabharata is the record of the overrunning of the local kingdoms. The Naga tribe is a good example if the genetic type of the original people’s of South Asia. Then follows the misappropriation of culture and the idealization of the enemy, viewing their darker skin as bluish. All cultures are in denial concerning misappropriation, but it’s essential for cultural cohesion. Buddhism in the West is in the same kettle of fish. IMHO
"We are magical animals that roam" ~ Roam

MiphamFan
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Re: Indus Valley people & genetics

Post by MiphamFan » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:57 pm

India was probably then, as now, a place of huge linguistic and genetic diversity.

Known languages families in the subcontinent: Indo-Aryan, Dravidian, Sino-Tibetan, Austro-Asiatic (Munda), Burushaski (language isolate)

According to Michael Witzel, there are traces of a language unrelated to any of the above in some Vedic loanwords.

This is just linguistics, not even going into genetics yet. Indo-Aryan pretty obviously came from outside India, but IMO, the genetics of India would probably have remained fairly stable over the millennia as they have in other parts of the world -- there is a great deal of Neolithic genetic continuity in Europe for example, even with the spread of IE, Finno-Ugric etc there.

Languages spreading don't necessarily mean that genes spread -- most people speaking English today have little Anglo-Saxon DNA just as most people speaking Romance languages have little Roman DNA.

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