Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

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Queequeg
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Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by Queequeg » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:30 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:54 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:40 pm
AMZN... Its expensive, but until the regulators start trying to break it up, they'll just keep bringing their capital to the table and disrupting industries with inefficiencies... very interested to see what they are going to do to the health insurance industry...
Buy a fund to take advantage of amazon. It is too volatile on the best of days for most people's comfort.

Apple has much better fundamentals. P/E ratio 16.22, Mkt. cap 811.89B

Amazon - P/E ratio 226.99, Mkt cap 675.09B

In other words, if you buy Amazon, you are paying $226.99 for every dollar of asset value. This is not a bargain. Amazon is way, way, over priced. Same with Tesla. It's a suckers bet.
Fair points about AMZN and TSLA. They are at the high end of value and would not recommend buying right now - wait for a pull back - but I would argue these aren't really bets on the companies and so traditional valuations are not going to tell the whole story - they're bets on Bezos and Musk and emerging business and product innovations that are in uncharted territory. Bezos has the better track record, and until the regulators start to come down on AMZN, I don't see their expansion slowing.

I agree on AAPL. Solid financials and in terms of product, they've got a cult - the Apple Store aesthetic looks like such a nice and pleasant future! I want to live there!

In general, though, I would not recommend jumping into the market new right now if you've never been. There are aspects of this market that are really weird and could blow up. Do your homework. Get in slow. Like Malcolm touched on, start with funds, and as you get a feel for what's going on, focus on industries that you can relate to, and then you can start placing specialized bets.

Actually, investing is a great dharma practice in certain respects. You need to cultivate detachment and equanimity. Attachments can get you killed.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
-Jerry Garcia

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Malcolm
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Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by Malcolm » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:37 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:30 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:54 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:40 pm
AMZN... Its expensive, but until the regulators start trying to break it up, they'll just keep bringing their capital to the table and disrupting industries with inefficiencies... very interested to see what they are going to do to the health insurance industry...
Buy a fund to take advantage of amazon. It is too volatile on the best of days for most people's comfort.

Apple has much better fundamentals. P/E ratio 16.22, Mkt. cap 811.89B

Amazon - P/E ratio 226.99, Mkt cap 675.09B

In other words, if you buy Amazon, you are paying $226.99 for every dollar of asset value. This is not a bargain. Amazon is way, way, over priced. Same with Tesla. It's a suckers bet.
Fair points about AMZN and TSLA. They are at the high end of value and would not recommend buying right now - wait for a pull back - but I would argue these aren't really bets on the companies and so traditional valuations are not going to tell the whole story - they're bets on Bezos and Musk and emerging business and product innovations that are in uncharted territory. Bezos has the better track record, and until the regulators start to come down on AMZN, I don't see their expansion slowing.

I agree on AAPL. Solid financials and in terms of product, they've got a cult - the Apple Store aesthetic looks like such a nice and pleasant future! I want to live there!

In general, though, I would not recommend jumping into the market new right now if you've never been. There are aspects of this market that are really weird and could blow up. Do your homework. Get in slow. Like Malcolm touched on, start with funds, and as you get a feel for what's going on, focus on industries that you can relate to, and then you can start placing specialized bets.

Actually, investing is a great dharma practice in certain respects. You need to cultivate detachment and equanimity. Attachments can get you killed.

Take a long view, and understand that over a long period of time, the market typically averages out to a 10-11 percent return, subtract inflation, and you have your real return (hence the panic over inflation in the market for the past couple of trading days). Stocks are not for most people. This is why Buffet always tells people to put their money in funds that track the major indexes. Right now, a 50/50 or 60/40 split between domestic and foreign equities is a good way to go, keep 15 percent in bonds, and 5 percent in cash. Also, Fidelity and Vanguard are selling total portfolios where one can simply invest in one fund according to one's stomach for risk, which is balanced accordingly.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by DGA » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:57 pm

TharpaChodron wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:18 am
DGA wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:43 am
Ricky wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:20 am
What are some good stocks to buy right now? Might be a few bargains out there.
Defense industry

pay attention to what defense authorizations are moving through Congress, and which bids are announced
Always a good Buddhist choice. :)
ha!

in case it wasn't clear to all, I was being facetious

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Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by ratna » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:42 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:37 pm
Take a long view, and understand that over a long period of time, the market typically averages out to a 10-11 percent return, subtract inflation, and you have your real return (hence the panic over inflation in the market for the past couple of trading days). Stocks are not for most people. This is why Buffet always tells people to put their money in funds that track the major indexes.
:good:
Index funds are cheap yet outperform the vast majority of actively managed funds. Chances that the average individual stockpicker does better than that in the long run are rather slim, and one has to be very careful not to fall prey to one's own cognitive and emotional biases.

R

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Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by Ricky » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:14 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:37 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:30 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:54 pm


Buy a fund to take advantage of amazon. It is too volatile on the best of days for most people's comfort.

Apple has much better fundamentals. P/E ratio 16.22, Mkt. cap 811.89B

Amazon - P/E ratio 226.99, Mkt cap 675.09B

In other words, if you buy Amazon, you are paying $226.99 for every dollar of asset value. This is not a bargain. Amazon is way, way, over priced. Same with Tesla. It's a suckers bet.
Fair points about AMZN and TSLA. They are at the high end of value and would not recommend buying right now - wait for a pull back - but I would argue these aren't really bets on the companies and so traditional valuations are not going to tell the whole story - they're bets on Bezos and Musk and emerging business and product innovations that are in uncharted territory. Bezos has the better track record, and until the regulators start to come down on AMZN, I don't see their expansion slowing.

I agree on AAPL. Solid financials and in terms of product, they've got a cult - the Apple Store aesthetic looks like such a nice and pleasant future! I want to live there!

In general, though, I would not recommend jumping into the market new right now if you've never been. There are aspects of this market that are really weird and could blow up. Do your homework. Get in slow. Like Malcolm touched on, start with funds, and as you get a feel for what's going on, focus on industries that you can relate to, and then you can start placing specialized bets.

Actually, investing is a great dharma practice in certain respects. You need to cultivate detachment and equanimity. Attachments can get you killed.

Take a long view, and understand that over a long period of time, the market typically averages out to a 10-11 percent return, subtract inflation, and you have your real return (hence the panic over inflation in the market for the past couple of trading days). Stocks are not for most people. This is why Buffet always tells people to put their money in funds that track the major indexes. Right now, a 50/50 or 60/40 split between domestic and foreign equities is a good way to go, keep 15 percent in bonds, and 5 percent in cash. Also, Fidelity and Vanguard are selling total portfolios where one can simply invest in one fund according to one's stomach for risk, which is balanced accordingly.
:thumbsup:

I have been researching index funds for quite some time now. I'm really into the emerging markets etf but you can never go wrong with s&p 500. That is a sure bet.

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Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by Ricky » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:16 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:07 pm
Ricky wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:26 am
Queequeg wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:19 am


You mean a hot mess.
Its a decent price to get in for a long term investment. But lets hear your picks Warren Buffet. :cheers:
Because everyday we are learning more and more about how this massive, sprawling conglomerate has been mismanaged for decades. It's more likely it gets broken up and sold off than returns to what it used to be. Maybe it's parts are worth more than the whole? Maybe look at the breakup of Tyco for a precedent.

What makes you think it's a buy?
I really don't know much about it, just saw the price for a big name like that and was shocked.

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Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by Queequeg » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:21 pm

Ricky wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:16 pm
I really don't know much about it, just saw the price for a big name like that and was shocked.
Yeah, crown jewel of the American business world was run into the ground... IBM turned it around, but they are no longer making Business Machines. GE could regroup, but its probably not going to be making everything from jet engines to financial products. Even at its price now, you could lose money before you make money.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
-Jerry Garcia

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Malcolm
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Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by Malcolm » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:23 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:21 pm
Ricky wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:16 pm
I really don't know much about it, just saw the price for a big name like that and was shocked.
Yeah, crown jewel of the American business world was run into the ground... IBM turned it around, but they are no longer making Business Machines. GE could regroup, but its probably not going to be making everything from jet engines to financial products. Even at its price now, you could lose money before you make money.
Yup, Buffet is out of GE completely.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by Mantrik » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:20 pm

When the US sneezes, we all catch a cold.
Global indexes also fell.
In the UK we have the same issue - interest rates are set to rise so investment in shares becomes less attractive.

This stuff doesn't astound me.

What astounds me is that our UK economy took a major hit when the BREXIT process commenced, quite rightly recognising an insane plunge into the abyss. Meanwhile, in the US, the markets seemed blind to the election of an insane sociopath ....... just because he happened to lie about favouring big businesses and actually meant bribing anyone who would pay him off once he was ousted.
http://www.khyung.com

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

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Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by Queequeg » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:39 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:20 pm
When the US sneezes, we all catch a cold.
Global indexes also fell.
In the UK we have the same issue - interest rates are set to rise so investment in shares becomes less attractive.

This stuff doesn't astound me.

What astounds me is that our UK economy took a major hit when the BREXIT process commenced, quite rightly recognising an insane plunge into the abyss. Meanwhile, in the US, the markets seemed blind to the election of an insane sociopath ....... just because he happened to lie about favouring big businesses and actually meant bribing anyone who would pay him off once he was ousted.
The Roman Empire endured under some truly pathetic leaders for a very long time... Historians credit the system Augustus left in place. Despite the lunatic in the White House, the rest of the government grinds along.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
-Jerry Garcia

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Queequeg
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Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by Queequeg » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:43 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:39 pm
Mantrik wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:20 pm
When the US sneezes, we all catch a cold.
Global indexes also fell.
In the UK we have the same issue - interest rates are set to rise so investment in shares becomes less attractive.

This stuff doesn't astound me.

What astounds me is that our UK economy took a major hit when the BREXIT process commenced, quite rightly recognising an insane plunge into the abyss. Meanwhile, in the US, the markets seemed blind to the election of an insane sociopath ....... just because he happened to lie about favouring big businesses and actually meant bribing anyone who would pay him off once he was ousted.
The Roman Empire endured under some truly pathetic leaders for a very long time... Historians credit the system Augustus left in place. Despite the lunatic in the White House, the rest of the government grinds along.
On that theme... I wonder if there is an argument to be made that Mueller/FBI/Justice Department is to Trump as Praetorian Guard is to Caligula...
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
-Jerry Garcia

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Malcolm
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Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by Malcolm » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:48 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:43 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:39 pm
Mantrik wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:20 pm
When the US sneezes, we all catch a cold.
Global indexes also fell.
In the UK we have the same issue - interest rates are set to rise so investment in shares becomes less attractive.

This stuff doesn't astound me.

What astounds me is that our UK economy took a major hit when the BREXIT process commenced, quite rightly recognising an insane plunge into the abyss. Meanwhile, in the US, the markets seemed blind to the election of an insane sociopath ....... just because he happened to lie about favouring big businesses and actually meant bribing anyone who would pay him off once he was ousted.
The Roman Empire endured under some truly pathetic leaders for a very long time... Historians credit the system Augustus left in place. Despite the lunatic in the White House, the rest of the government grinds along.
On that theme... I wonder if there is an argument to be made that Mueller/FBI/Justice Department is to Trump as Praetorian Guard is to Caligula...
More like Nero, I'd say...
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by Quay » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:50 pm

If one is considering comparisons to the Twelve Caesars, then most definitely Nero.

"Chaotic, corrupt, incurious, infantile, grandiose, and obsessed with gaudy real estate, Donald Trump is of a Neronic temperament."

See:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018 ... nald-trump
"Knowledge is as infinite as the stars in the sky;
There is no end to all the subjects one could study.
It is better to grasp straight away their very essence--
The unchanging fortress of the Dharmakaya."

– Longchenpa.

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Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by DGA » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:58 pm

Pence could go full Caligula, though, when it's his turn.

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Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by DGA » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:00 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:20 pm
When the US sneezes, we all catch a cold.
Global indexes also fell.
In the UK we have the same issue - interest rates are set to rise so investment in shares becomes less attractive.

This stuff doesn't astound me.

What astounds me is that our UK economy took a major hit when the BREXIT process commenced, quite rightly recognising an insane plunge into the abyss. Meanwhile, in the US, the markets seemed blind to the election of an insane sociopath ....... just because he happened to lie about favouring big businesses and actually meant bribing anyone who would pay him off once he was ousted.
Trump just passed an insane tax cut bill. He's throwing money at the already rich. That's why he's tolerated. Mitt Romney couldn't do it, but Trump could squeak into office and get this done for reasons we don't need to get into but have everything to do with idiot baby boomers.

Handing already rich people a big ol' wad of capital, among other things, spurs inflation. Fears of inflation open onto bearish markets. And here we are.

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Queequeg
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Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by Queequeg » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:01 pm

DGA wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:58 pm
Pence could go full Caligula, though, when it's his turn.
All that pent up energy locked up in the closet...
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
-Jerry Garcia

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Malcolm
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Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by Malcolm » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:02 pm

DGA wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:58 pm
Pence could go full Caligula, though, when it's his turn.
I see him more going the Torquemada route, myself. "Kill them all, God will know his own."
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Queequeg
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Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by Queequeg » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:09 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:02 pm
DGA wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:58 pm
Pence could go full Caligula, though, when it's his turn.
I see him more going the Torquemada route, myself. "Kill them all, God will know his own."
All with that plastic smile.

His holocaust remembrance tweet was a travesty.

What a creep.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
-Jerry Garcia

User avatar
Mantrik
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Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:55 pm
Contact:

Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by Mantrik » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:30 pm

DGA wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:00 pm
Mantrik wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:20 pm
When the US sneezes, we all catch a cold.
Global indexes also fell.
In the UK we have the same issue - interest rates are set to rise so investment in shares becomes less attractive.

This stuff doesn't astound me.

What astounds me is that our UK economy took a major hit when the BREXIT process commenced, quite rightly recognising an insane plunge into the abyss. Meanwhile, in the US, the markets seemed blind to the election of an insane sociopath ....... just because he happened to lie about favouring big businesses and actually meant bribing anyone who would pay him off once he was ousted.
Trump just passed an insane tax cut bill. He's throwing money at the already rich. That's why he's tolerated. Mitt Romney couldn't do it, but Trump could squeak into office and get this done for reasons we don't need to get into but have everything to do with idiot baby boomers.

Handing already rich people a big ol' wad of capital, among other things, spurs inflation. Fears of inflation open onto bearish markets. And here we are.
But I thought it was all spin. The tax cut was less than Obama's according to UK media, just another way for Trump to lie to his dimwitted supporters.
http://www.khyung.com

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

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Malcolm
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Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by Malcolm » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:31 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:09 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:02 pm
DGA wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:58 pm
Pence could go full Caligula, though, when it's his turn.
I see him more going the Torquemada route, myself. "Kill them all, God will know his own."
All with that plastic smile.

His holocaust remembrance tweet was a travesty.

What a creep.
This whole administration is a travesty.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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