helicobacter pylori bacteria endemic in Tibetan monastery

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Dorje Shedrub
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helicobacter pylori bacteria endemic in Tibetan monastery

Post by Dorje Shedrub » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:50 pm

Australian group tests and treats gyuto monks for this ulcer causing bacteria.



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Re: helicobacter pylori bacteria endemic in Tibetan monastery

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:04 am

Something like half of the world has this bacteria, AFAIK they do not really understand why some people can live with it and some cannot.

I had it for years (presumably), then at age 40 all the sudden I had crippling heartburn and was regurgitating stomach acid into my lungs causing asthma, fun stuff. It took me a year to fully recover, even though they tell you you will feel much better after the round of antibiotics, I guess it isn't always the case. It's good they were able to help these monks, it can get insanely painful and really disrupt one's life.
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Re: helicobacter pylori bacteria endemic in Tibetan monastery

Post by DharmaN00b » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:14 am

NO kidding, much confusion pushed in another direction then transformation. Very interesting experience!?

And thankyou for the post :thanks: :thanks:

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Re: helicobacter pylori bacteria endemic in Tibetan monastery

Post by Simon E. » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:37 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:04 am
Something like half of the world has this bacteria, AFAIK they do not really understand why some people can live with it and some cannot.

I had it for years (presumably), then at age 40 all the sudden I had crippling heartburn and was regurgitating stomach acid into my lungs causing asthma, fun stuff. It took me a year to fully recover, even though they tell you you will feel much better after the round of antibiotics, I guess it isn't always the case. It's good they were able to help these monks, it can get insanely painful and really disrupt one's life.
Unpleasant for you J.D. but before the link between ulcers and H.Pylori was discovered by Warren and Marshall things were even worse. Ulcer sufferers were treated by a very restricted diet which was often ineffective, and often by having sections of the stomach or duodenum removed surgically.
The antibiotics have side effects but they are temporary and most people are cured of the ulcers.
The story of how the link was made and how the medical establishment resisted the evidence for years makes an interesting read. It wasn't a 'big pharma' issue..the fact that ulcers were caused by bacteria just flew in the face of all received medical opinion. The prevailing view was that they were stress related.
If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition. :smile:
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

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Re: helicobacter pylori bacteria endemic in Tibetan monastery

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:35 am

Simon E. wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:37 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:04 am
Something like half of the world has this bacteria, AFAIK they do not really understand why some people can live with it and some cannot.

I had it for years (presumably), then at age 40 all the sudden I had crippling heartburn and was regurgitating stomach acid into my lungs causing asthma, fun stuff. It took me a year to fully recover, even though they tell you you will feel much better after the round of antibiotics, I guess it isn't always the case. It's good they were able to help these monks, it can get insanely painful and really disrupt one's life.
Unpleasant for you J.D. but before the link between ulcers and H.Pylori was discovered by Warren and Marshall things were even worse. Ulcer sufferers were treated by a very restricted diet which was often ineffective, and often by having sections of the stomach or duodenum removed surgically.
The antibiotics have side effects but they are temporary and most people are cured of the ulcers.
The story of how the link was made and how the medical establishment resisted the evidence for years makes an interesting read. It wasn't a 'big pharma' issue..the fact that ulcers were caused by bacteria just flew in the face of all received medical opinion. The prevailing view was that they were stress related.
Yeah, I remember my grandpa going through that before it was discovered in the 80's, my Dad did too and then he was able to get on the meds at some point.

My main complaint is that the GI clinic just gives you the meds and don't talk about diet or aftercare. Turns out my experience was not unusual at all, and that your actual GI tract takes a while to heal from the effects of the bacteria, even before the development of actual ulcers.

Another thing that happens is that you stop digesting right from months and months of being on omeprazole or ranitidine, which is a problem of and within itself, and you have to slowly come off those meds as you heal.

I've still run into a fair number of people who don't know about H Pylori, and still think ulcers are mainly caused by stress, so the idea is still out there evidently.
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Re: helicobacter pylori bacteria endemic in Tibetan monastery

Post by kirtu » Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:51 am

One of the reasons that this bacteria is endemic in Tibetan monasteries is that they do not eat much garlic or onions. Allicin, found in high concentration in garlic and onions, inhibits h. pylori (although the concentration has to be high enough and the effect is temporary so you have to continue adding allicin to the diet). Better in this case to be a ngakpa (although they don't eat garlic or onions either).

The following paper from 1999 (!) reports results of the synergistic effect of garlic and omeprazole (synposis : it works!)

Antibacterial effect of garlic and omeprazole on Helicobacter pylori

And here is a more recent report with positive results from only 2 3g sized cloves of garlic (although the size of the study is small):
Assessment of antibacterial effect of garlic in patients infected with Helicobacter pylori using urease breath test
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
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"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
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Re: helicobacter pylori bacteria endemic in Tibetan monastery

Post by Simon E. » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:29 am

The onion (allium) family in general and garlic in particular, have also been shown in clinical trials to reduce blood pressure.
Garlic is also a powerful topical antiseptic.
Its a pity that some cultures have a superstitious aversion to it.
If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition. :smile:
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

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Re: helicobacter pylori bacteria endemic in Tibetan monastery

Post by Simon E. » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:51 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:35 am
Simon E. wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:37 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:04 am
Something like half of the world has this bacteria, AFAIK they do not really understand why some people can live with it and some cannot.

I had it for years (presumably), then at age 40 all the sudden I had crippling heartburn and was regurgitating stomach acid into my lungs causing asthma, fun stuff. It took me a year to fully recover, even though they tell you you will feel much better after the round of antibiotics, I guess it isn't always the case. It's good they were able to help these monks, it can get insanely painful and really disrupt one's life.
Unpleasant for you J.D. but before the link between ulcers and H.Pylori was discovered by Warren and Marshall things were even worse. Ulcer sufferers were treated by a very restricted diet which was often ineffective, and often by having sections of the stomach or duodenum removed surgically.
The antibiotics have side effects but they are temporary and most people are cured of the ulcers.
The story of how the link was made and how the medical establishment resisted the evidence for years makes an interesting read. It wasn't a 'big pharma' issue..the fact that ulcers were caused by bacteria just flew in the face of all received medical opinion. The prevailing view was that they were stress related.
Yeah, I remember my grandpa going through that before it was discovered in the 80's, my Dad did too and then he was able to get on the meds at some point.

My main complaint is that the GI clinic just gives you the meds and don't talk about diet or aftercare. Turns out my experience was not unusual at all, and that your actual GI tract takes a while to heal from the effects of the bacteria, even before the development of actual ulcers.

Another thing that happens is that you stop digesting right from months and months of being on omeprazole or ranitidine, which is a problem of and within itself, and you have to slowly come off those meds as you heal.

I've still run into a fair number of people who don't know about H Pylori, and still think ulcers are mainly caused by stress, so the idea is still out there evidently.
I expect you know this Johnny, but for the benefit of anyone who may not, probiotics are a good idea after any course of antibiotics..and even during, although they will be of less benefit.
Yoghurt is never a bad idea, nor is kimchi, and also those little bottles of stuff..but the best benefits come from probiotic capsules.
Each one contains the equivalent of many bottles of Yakult or similar.
If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition. :smile:
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

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Re: helicobacter pylori bacteria endemic in Tibetan monastery

Post by kirtu » Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:00 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:51 pm
I expect you know this Johnny, but for the benefit of anyone who may not, probiotics are a good idea after any course of antibiotics..and even during, although they will be of less benefit.
Yoghurt is never a bad idea, nor is kimchi, and also those little bottles of stuff..but the best benefits come from probiotic capsules.
Each one contains the equivalent of many bottles of Yakult or similar.
I didn't realize that kimchi also worked as a probiotic (although a moment's though reveals the logic). Good to know.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

Simon E.
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Re: helicobacter pylori bacteria endemic in Tibetan monastery

Post by Simon E. » Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:40 pm

Yes if made by traditional methods :smile: ..unfortunately, a lot of it is produced by industrial means.
Good quality sauerkraut is also probiotic. As is miso paste..but in the case of the latter it is necessary to add it towards the end of cooking as high heat will kill the probiotic agents.
If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition. :smile:
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

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Re: helicobacter pylori bacteria endemic in Tibetan monastery

Post by Dorje Shedrub » Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:23 am

Simon E. wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:29 am
The onion (allium) family in general and garlic in particular, have also been shown in clinical trials to reduce blood pressure.
Garlic is also a powerful topical antiseptic.
Its a pity that some cultures have a superstitious aversion to it.
I thought it was just celibate monastics that avoid garlic and onions due to their supposed affect on libido.

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: helicobacter pylori bacteria endemic in Tibetan monastery

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:46 am

suprised that monks are not used to wash their hands if they often hold scriptures and other delicate things :jawdrop:

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Re: helicobacter pylori bacteria endemic in Tibetan monastery

Post by Bristollad » Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:37 pm

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:46 am
suprised that monks are not used to wash their hands if they often hold scriptures and other delicate things :jawdrop:
How is Helicobacter pylori transmitted?
Cave DR, Department of Medicine, St. Elizabeth's Medical Center, Brighton, Massachusetts, USA. drcave@pol.net

Abstract

Helicobacter pylori is one of the world's most common pathogens. It colonizes about 60% of the world's population, causes gastritis and peptic ulcer, and is strongly associated with gastric adenocarcinoma and lymphoma. However, most individuals never develop clinical disease. Thirteen years after the culture of H. pylori by Marshall and Warren, we still do not know its major mode of transmission. Childhood represents the major period of acquisition of infection in the third world, but infection is rare in children in the developed world. Possible routes of infection include either oral-oral or fecal-oral, iatrogenic spread with inadvertent use of unsterile pH probes and endoscopes, and vectorial spread by flies. Evidence to support each route of transmission is provided, but there is no predominant route. The only significant reservoir of infection appears to be humans themselves. The organism has been found in some domestic cats and in nonhuman primates, but the opportunities for human interaction with the latter are rare, making infection from this source an unlikely possibility. The organism has the propensity to become a coccoid form. This may represent a persistent form in which H. pylori can exist in the environment, but it has yet to be shown that it can revert to the replicative form.
It's not just about monks not being hygenic. Even being kissed by grandparents has been suggested as a possible vector. There has also been evidence for some transmission due to contaminated drinking water.

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Re: helicobacter pylori bacteria endemic in Tibetan monastery

Post by tingdzin » Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:42 am

Thanks all for this enlightening thread. How does one get diagnosed with this problem?

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Re: helicobacter pylori bacteria endemic in Tibetan monastery

Post by DGA » Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:58 pm

tingdzin wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:42 am
Thanks all for this enlightening thread. How does one get diagnosed with this problem?
Here's how I was diagnosed:

I went to see my MD for an unrelated condition. They ran a CBC and discovered I was anemic, like really scary anemic. So, they went hunting for where I was leaking blood. Endoscopy revealed ulcers at the base of my esophagus and in my duodenum. Stool test came up positive for h. pylori. So I got to take a lot of antibiotics for a month, iron pills, a proton pump inhibitor, and tapioca pudding. This was in winter and I got hypothermia at one point because I was so weak and somehow the antibiotics gave me terrible body odor but but BUT after losing some 20lbs I recovered.

My experience is more or less identical to what Johnny D described, except it hit me earlier in life.

My mom died of esophogeal cancer in 2002. She'd had terrible GI problems her whole life... ulcers, heartburn, all of it. I think if she had been diagnosed correctly and treated for the bacteria, she may have lived longer and would surely have had a better life. Her doctor was a complete shithead but she trusted him 100%. that's samsara for you

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Re: helicobacter pylori bacteria endemic in Tibetan monastery

Post by Soma999 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:24 pm

Maybe Oreganol which is made from wild oregano can remove it. I have seen it advised in protocol for ulcer. It's very potent stuff.

Maybe also specific technology, like the rife devices, spooky2 for exemple, may be helpful to get rid of this, in a very targeted way.

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Re: helicobacter pylori bacteria endemic in Tibetan monastery

Post by DGA » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:24 am

Soma999 wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:24 pm
Maybe Oreganol which is made from wild oregano can remove it. I have seen it advised in protocol for ulcer. It's very potent stuff.

Maybe also specific technology, like the rife devices, spooky2 for exemple, may be helpful to get rid of this, in a very targeted way.
Maybe.

So many maybes.

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Re: helicobacter pylori bacteria endemic in Tibetan monastery

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:55 am

Soma999 wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:24 pm
Maybe Oreganol which is made from wild oregano can remove it. I have seen it advised in protocol for ulcer. It's very potent stuff.

Maybe also specific technology, like the rife devices, spooky2 for exemple, may be helpful to get rid of this, in a very targeted way.
The antibiotic regimens work, and do the job...it's just that after that your gut biome is all wiped out, and your GI tract needs to heal.

I got put on a modified version of the GAPS/FODMAPS diet, and ate a ton of probiotics, I thought i'd never be able to eat chile or drink coffee again, but I can now.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

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Re: helicobacter pylori bacteria endemic in Tibetan monastery

Post by DharmaN00b » Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:29 am

Am I allowed to say that dope works well, (at least temporarily)? :tantrum:

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