US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

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PeterC
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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by PeterC » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:42 am

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:34 am
PeterC wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:00 am
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:58 pm
In these countries, liquor stores outnumbered grocery stores 30 to 1, similar with the way it is in poorer parts of China today. Why? Drunks are easier to control.
Nowhere in China will you find that, apart perhaps from a small district in the village of Maotai.
Or the city of Xining, in which I spent many months.
Only if you are extremely selective about where you wall around there. Ive been to xining several times since my first visit a few decades ago, and though it is far from my favorite city, its really not that bad

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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by pothigai » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:54 am

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:34 am
pothigai wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:33 am
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:42 pm


Let me outline the main difference between Fascist bullshit and Socialist bullshit for you:

Fascist bullshit always runs along the lines of: the Jews, The Mexicans, the Blacks, the [insert foreign bogeyman here] is causing all our problems.

Socialist bullshit always runs along the lines of: The Corporations, The Capitalists, the Man, the US, the Imperialists, the [insert systemic bogeyman here] is causing all our problems.

But its all bullshit because all of this does not involve an understanding of karma.
Would you also say that liberalism and conservatism are bullshit because they don't involve an understanding of karma?
Oh absolutely.
How do you think an understanding of karma should inform an understanding of politics?

It seems that we could analyse society in terms of karma, but I'm not sure if it could be a basis for a political conception of how we should structure society as most people don't believe in karma, and even those that do don't actually seem to want to structure their lives around the fact of karma.
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یہ نمائش سراب کی سی ہے

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yeh numaaish saraab ki si hai

Like a bubble is your existence
This display is like an illusion

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PeterC
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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by PeterC » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:31 am

pothigai wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:54 am
Malcolm wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:34 am
pothigai wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:33 am


Would you also say that liberalism and conservatism are bullshit because they don't involve an understanding of karma?
Oh absolutely.
How do you think an understanding of karma should inform an understanding of politics?

It seems that we could analyse society in terms of karma, but I'm not sure if it could be a basis for a political conception of how we should structure society as most people don't believe in karma, and even those that do don't actually seem to want to structure their lives around the fact of karma.
There's a few different ways you could make that linkage, but as a starter, Consider Rawls' 'original position', which argues the validity of a social contract negotiated by people who do not know their position in the society itself. Policy and institutions are usually formed so as to benefit constituencies that politicians care about, and with a view to the implications within the current term of office, or within the lifetimes of the policy-makers. Rawls attempts to remove that bias by putting the decision-makers in the position of not knowing who they will be. An understanding of karma would take you further, forcing you to make policy with the knowledge that you would personally experience the worst effects of your decisions.

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Grigoris
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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Grigoris » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:10 am

Malcolm wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:42 pm
Let me outline the main difference between Fascist bullshit and Socialist bullshit for you:

Fascist bullshit always runs along the lines of: the Jews, The Mexicans, the Blacks, the [insert foreign bogeyman here] is causing all our problems.

Socialist bullshit always runs along the lines of: The Corporations, The Capitalists, the Man, the US, the Imperialists, the [insert systemic bogeyman here] is causing all our problems.
I imagine that to a white, highly educated, middle-class male living in a largely democratic state in one of world's richest and most powerful imperialist nations, it would seem that way.

Everything looks great through white tinted glasses.

In the other 95% of the world things are a little different.
It is all just karma and the ripening of karma. Got great karma, you will be born in a wealthy first world family, free of war and conflict. If your past karma sucks, the slums of Mumbai. If you karma really sucks, Douma in Syria or [insert terrestrial hellhole here].
Which is fine except that it ignores the suffering being caused by the current karma of those in the wealthy first world... Of course for somebody in your position, it is to be expected that they would ignore (or be unaware of) that aspect. ;)
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

shaunc
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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by shaunc » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:52 am

Greg, you often sound very rascist and bigoted towards white people in your posts. I would have thought that rascism and bigotry would be against the forum rules regardless of what colour or country it is aimed towards

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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Mantrik » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:29 am

Samsara seems more simple than all the verbiage.

Either I cause something which I feel to be bad, or someone else does.

I prefer to blame someone else, whether than be the person in the next village or someone with a different religion, culture or skin colour. The same applies if I feel aggrieved, jealous, greedy - rather than work on my mind, I prefer to get others to satisfy me, and if they won't give me what I want I will take it or destroy what is theirs.

If I get violent with someone in the next village retribution may be swift. If I persuade people that the problems are all due to people who can't fight back and/or are far away I can pummel them with impunity and still play the hero.

It's all about 'Other' and the human need to find a reason to justify their feelings and actions. Just a guess, but I'll wager very few outside Hindus, Buddhists and Jains rationalise the world in terms of 'Karma Vipaka' and so as well as 'Other People' we have 'Our God Good, Their God Bad' in the samsaric soup.
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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Grigoris » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:38 am

shaunc wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:52 am
Greg, you often sound very rascist and bigoted towards white people in your posts. I would have thought that rascism and bigotry would be against the forum rules regardless of what colour or country it is aimed towards
1. I am white, well... according to Anglo-Saxon-Irish types I am not exactly white, but according to black and brown people I am. Go figure.

2. You obviously have no idea of the mechanics of racism. Let me give you a hint: racism has something to do with power. ;)

3. You are white, yes? When was the last time you checked your privilege?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Snowbear
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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Snowbear » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:43 am

@Grigoris, a country like the US being rich and developed does not mean the rest of the world suffers. Who taught you economics?

shaunc
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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by shaunc » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:00 am

Grigoris wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:38 am
shaunc wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:52 am
Greg, you often sound very rascist and bigoted towards white people in your posts. I would have thought that rascism and bigotry would be against the forum rules regardless of what colour or country it is aimed towards
1. I am white, well... according to Anglo-Saxon-Irish types I am not exactly white, but according to black and brown people I am. Go figure.

2. You obviously have no idea of the mechanics of racism. Let me give you a hint: racism has something to do with power. ;)

3. You are white, yes? When was the last time you checked your privilege?
1. You are white, well good for you. But I don't understand why you think other members of the forum should have to apologize for their colour and/or nationality.

2. Rascism is prejudice, discrimination or antagonistic towards a person or people based upon their skin colour and/or nationality.

3. Yes, I am a white 7th generation Australian, a descendant of Irish Catholic convicts. Yes, I am privileged to be living in one of the safest and economically well off countries in the world.
But I really don't feel a need to apologize for it.

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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Grigoris » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:51 am

Snowbear wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:43 am
@Grigoris, a country like the US being rich and developed does not mean the rest of the world suffers. Who taught you economics?
So you believe in infinite resources? Who taught you ecology? ;)
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Grigoris » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:55 am

shaunc wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:00 am
1. You are white, well good for you.
I am not white enough for your type of white.
2. Rascism is prejudice, discrimination or antagonistic towards a person or people based upon their skin colour and/or nationality.
No. Racism is the application of power on this basis. An Aborigine cannot be racist towards you because you have state and social mechanisms working in your favour.
3. Yes, I am a white 7th generation Australian, a descendant of Irish Catholic convicts. Yes, I am privileged to be living in one of the safest and economically well off countries in the world.
But I really don't feel a need to apologize for it.
Well, you should. Because the fact that you are living where you are and under the conditions that you have, is due to genocide.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Malcolm
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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Malcolm » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:14 am

PeterC wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:42 am
Malcolm wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:34 am
PeterC wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:00 am


Nowhere in China will you find that, apart perhaps from a small district in the village of Maotai.
Or the city of Xining, in which I spent many months.
Only if you are extremely selective about where you wall around there. Ive been to xining several times since my first visit a few decades ago, and though it is far from my favorite city, its really not that bad
I was all over the city, but mainly near the old university and Tibetan hospital
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Malcolm
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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Malcolm » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:37 am

Grigoris wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:10 am
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:42 pm
Let me outline the main difference between Fascist bullshit and Socialist bullshit for you:

Fascist bullshit always runs along the lines of: the Jews, The Mexicans, the Blacks, the [insert foreign bogeyman here] is causing all our problems.

Socialist bullshit always runs along the lines of: The Corporations, The Capitalists, the Man, the US, the Imperialists, the [insert systemic bogeyman here] is causing all our problems.
I imagine that to a white, highly educated, middle-class male living in a largely democratic state in one of world's richest and most powerful imperialist nations, it would seem that way.

Everything looks great through white tinted glasses.

In the other 95% of the world things are a little different.
It is all just karma and the ripening of karma. Got great karma, you will be born in a wealthy first world family, free of war and conflict. If your past karma sucks, the slums of Mumbai. If you karma really sucks, Douma in Syria or [insert terrestrial hellhole here].
Which is fine except that it ignores the suffering being caused by the current karma of those in the wealthy first world... Of course for somebody in your position, it is to be expected that they would ignore (or be unaware of) that aspect. ;)
Karma does not work that way. There is no such thing as collective karma. If what you are asserting is correct, then even the poorest humans are complicit in the suffering of all animals.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

shaunc
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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by shaunc » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:39 am

Grigoris wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:55 am
shaunc wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:00 am
1. You are white, well good for you.
I am not white enough for your type of white.

I'm confused, in your last post you were white, but now you're unsure if you're white?
2. Rascism is prejudice, discrimination or antagonistic towards a person or people based upon their skin colour and/or nationality.
No. Racism is the application of power on this basis. An Aborigine cannot be racist towards you because you have state and social mechanisms working in your favour.

I live in a town that's approximately 10% indigenous and I assure you that indigenous people can be rascist towards whites, and almost whites as you like to put it and also towards Maoris and Pacific islanders, and indians and anyone else they put their mind to be rascist towards.
My town, that I'm quite proud of is a bit like noahs ark, we've got at least 2 of everything.
3. Yes, I am a white 7th generation Australian, a descendant of Irish Catholic convicts. Yes, I am privileged to be living in one of the safest and economically well off countries in the world.
But I really don't feel a need to apologize for it.
Well, you should. Because the fact that you are living where you are and under the conditions that you have, is due to genocide.
What country doesn't have a bit of blood on its hands, you know Greg, if you read a bit of your own history even the Greeks have been involved in a few atrocities and I wouldn't mind a side bet that they stretch back a bit further than 1788.

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Malcolm
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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Malcolm » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:01 pm

Grigoris wrote: Racism is the application of power on this basis. An Aborigine cannot be racist towards you because you have state and social mechanisms working in your favour
No. Use the dictionary, shaunc is quite correct. What you are talking about is systemic racism, and that is different than simple racism.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

PeterC
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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by PeterC » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:08 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:14 am
PeterC wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:42 am
Malcolm wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:34 am

Or the city of Xining, in which I spent many months.
Only if you are extremely selective about where you wall around there. Ive been to xining several times since my first visit a few decades ago, and though it is far from my favorite city, its really not that bad
I was all over the city, but mainly near the old university and Tibetan hospital
Don't know what you saw, but I'll have to disagree. I've probably seen a lot more of China than you have. But this isn't particularly important to the discussion...
:focus:

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Grigoris
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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Grigoris » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:33 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:01 pm
No. Use the dictionary, shaunc is quite correct. What you are talking about is systemic racism, and that is different than simple racism.
No. You cannot separate the two.

Anyway, you should also ask yourself who wrote the definition and for whom.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Grigoris
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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Grigoris » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:34 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:37 am
Karma does not work that way. There is no such thing as collective karma. If what you are asserting is correct, then even the poorest humans are complicit in the suffering of all animals.
Huh?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Grigoris
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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Grigoris » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:38 pm

shaunc wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:39 am
What country doesn't have a bit of blood on its hands, you know Greg, if you read a bit of your own history even the Greeks have been involved in a few atrocities and I wouldn't mind a side bet that they stretch back a bit further than 1788.
This is called Whataboutism, a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Malcolm
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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Malcolm » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:46 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:33 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:01 pm
No. Use the dictionary, shaunc is quite correct. What you are talking about is systemic racism, and that is different than simple racism.
No. You cannot separate the two.

Anyway, you should also ask yourself who wrote the definition and for whom.
Sure on can and one should. Read a dictionary.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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