US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

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Malcolm
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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Malcolm » Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:41 am

mañjughoṣamaṇi wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:27 am
PeterC wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:37 am
mañjughoṣamaṇi wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:05 am


Current and Topical:
http://www.bbc.com/news/stories-43754737

"For decades the BBC denied that job applicants were subject to political vetting by MI5. But in fact vetting began in the early days of the BBC and continued until the 1990s. Paul Reynolds, the first journalist to see all the BBC's vetting files, tells the story of the long relationship between the corporation and the Security Service."
The BBC goes out of its way to be critical of government in order to demonstrate its independence, which is a condition of its license. Citing it as a tool of the state is frankly a bit silly.
There are longstanding connections between the state security services and the BBC, and beyond that groupthink is as common in the UK media as it is in the USA. Look at the recent reaction to Owen Jones' critiques of the British media. Or look at the biased coverage of Labor in recent years as Corbyn's popularity skyrocketed.

To praise the BBC and then dismiss it's own reporting on its past connections to the security services is what is kind of silly.
With all due respect Todd, Corbyn is an idiot.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by mañjughoṣamaṇi » Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:58 am

Malcolm wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:41 am
mañjughoṣamaṇi wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:27 am
PeterC wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:37 am


The BBC goes out of its way to be critical of government in order to demonstrate its independence, which is a condition of its license. Citing it as a tool of the state is frankly a bit silly.
There are longstanding connections between the state security services and the BBC, and beyond that groupthink is as common in the UK media as it is in the USA. Look at the recent reaction to Owen Jones' critiques of the British media. Or look at the biased coverage of Labor in recent years as Corbyn's popularity skyrocketed.

To praise the BBC and then dismiss it's own reporting on its past connections to the security services is what is kind of silly.
With all due respect Todd, Corbyn is an idiot.
That has nothing to do with the argument. May is a moron as well, and Tim "Chemicals make frogs gay" Farron was a joke too.
སེམས་རྣམ་པར་གྲོལ་བར་བྱའི་ཕྱིར་བྱམས་པ་བསྒོམ་པར་བྱའོ།
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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by mañjughoṣamaṇi » Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:08 am

There are different types of ways the media is biased. Chinese state media is obviously a tool of a particular political party and government that has no interest in adversarial journalism except to shut it down. People know (including in China) that there is no freedom in this media.

There is still bias in the media of liberal democracies. The NYT was brought up earlier. As an example of bias, they continue to platform racist pseudo-science while refusing right of response to dissenting voices. One can look at the oped published by Reich recently. A large number of race scholars in biological fields and population genetics contacted the paper to not that he was far outside of the scientific consensus and asked to be given a space to respond. They were not. They had to publish on buzzfeed.

The coverage of Corbyn was brought up because there were several easily accessible reliable studies published on the topic.
སེམས་རྣམ་པར་གྲོལ་བར་བྱའི་ཕྱིར་བྱམས་པ་བསྒོམ་པར་བྱའོ།
“In order to completely liberate the mind, cultivate loving kindness.” -- Maitribhāvana Sūtra

"The bottom always falls out of the quest for the elementary. The irreducibly individual recedes like the horizon, as our analysis advances." -- Genesis, Michel Serres

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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by PeterC » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:11 am

mañjughoṣamaṇi wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:19 am


I read the BBC news site everyday. I find it a valuable resource as it reports on things the US media often doesn't. I don't find it without any merit. However, the idea that there isn't political bias is a little risible though. I don't find much of their reporting to be strongly critical of the UK government...
For that opinion to have much weight you would have to be comparing the bbc’s coverage of Uk politics with that of other Uk broadcast news. How many decades have you been doing that for?

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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Mantrik » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:18 am

mañjughoṣamaṇi wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:05 am
Mantrik wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:35 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:13 pm
Another example: You state that the BBC is a reputable source. The BBC is funded by the UK state. It's executive board reads like a pedigree of English political and economic inbred nepotism.
It isn't perfect but it is actually funded by taxpayers who pay a licence fee in order that the organisation does not have to accept advertising. In terms of mass media it is probably held to account by the public more than any other. I rate it as obviously imperfect, but still the best source of information and the most open to comment from a wide spectrum of opinion.
Current and Topical:
http://www.bbc.com/news/stories-43754737

"For decades the BBC denied that job applicants were subject to political vetting by MI5. But in fact vetting began in the early days of the BBC and continued until the 1990s. Paul Reynolds, the first journalist to see all the BBC's vetting files, tells the story of the long relationship between the corporation and the Security Service."
Really..........I am shocked and surprised that the BBC has a long relationship with the 'Security Service' - whatever that may be (MI5, MI6, SAS? ) . Many people who work in a government role are asked to sign the Official Secrets Act and are CRB checked - even the cleaners. Well, guess what......that relationship may have something to do with that little spat in the 1940's when for some reason Germany and others were trying to spread disinformation. The BBC broadcast to the world to combat that, and strangely reflected what the UK Govt wanted to become known............including what would mislead the enemy.

All our media have a link to our spooks - ever heard of a D Notice? You really think the press don't know exactly how long Brits have been interviewing the Skripals, a good deal of the information they revealed, and where they are now? The dribble of information is tightly controlled. I suspect this is also the case in Syria, and it may be years before we know the full info on which the US, UK and France based their raids. Meanwhile, of course, the vacuum is filled by 'useful idiots' doing the Russians' job for them.

We still have Putin's 'useful idiot' Corbyn trolling on behalf of Assad (insert any other anti-Israel or pro-Arab organisation, right-on student protest or the latest minority to gain a label). Your assertion of bias is roundly squashed by the inordinate amount of airtime given to this bozo by the Beeb, who would surely be highly dismissive if it was a Govt media puppet.

Every other week there is a study into media bias......which may themselves be biased of course. Depending upon the 'news values' of an organisation, certain stories will be judged to be more important and that very selectivity inroduces bias. The crass suggestions we get from time to time of 'equal airtime' for every side of every argument would kill off journalism completely and introduce real Big Brother scenarios. No news medium can report all the news, neither can it produce perfect balance, but I think the Beeb is pretty good at making clear what is reported as fact and what is comment.

Corbyn is like a 1970's supply teacher whose class is out of control, so he keeps hoping if he sticks close to a powerful senior teacher with charisma and a big stick it'll somehow make him credible. He's had decades as a professional protestor - mostly against his own party. It's the only way this shambling dodderer can get himself noticed. If anything, the BBC bends over backwards to be 'politically correct', a stance which is definitely not Tory. He even gets his ex-girlfriend Diane Abbott to post pictures of the wrong fighter planes in the wrong war to justify his bilge about Syria. Meanwhile he starts getting shouty about the Windrush immigrants whose immigration documents were destroyed, giving him the perfect platform to identify and champion another minority group and wind up the teens with another conspiracy theory....only to discover it was his own party which did it!
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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Grigoris » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:20 am

Malcolm wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:41 am
With all due respect Todd, Corbyn is an idiot.
There are idiots and then there is the President of the U$. I'll take my chances with the idiots, if you don't mind!
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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Grigoris » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:26 am

Meanwhile in Newnan, in The Land of the Free, heavily armed police (yes, one would be excused if they thought they were military personnel or Black Water mercenaries) point guns at unarmed peaceful (anti-Nazi) protesters.
land of the free.png
land of the free.png (346.96 KiB) Viewed 325 times
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Drenpa » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:07 am

PSM wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:29 pm
People might find the info on this site useful for context: https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Syria

Whatever actually is going on over in Syria, it's obviously being used as a chessboard by many actors.
Iran & Israeli are the ones that concern me. Could be traces of post-Abrahamic paranoia, but the consequences of these two going a few rounds in Syria and the chaos that could ensue don't bear thinking about.

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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by yagmort » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:30 am

one more about White Helmets. please listen out

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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by mañjughoṣamaṇi » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:05 pm

PeterC wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:11 am
mañjughoṣamaṇi wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:19 am


I read the BBC news site everyday. I find it a valuable resource as it reports on things the US media often doesn't. I don't find it without any merit. However, the idea that there isn't political bias is a little risible though. I don't find much of their reporting to be strongly critical of the UK government...
For that opinion to have much weight you would have to be comparing the bbc’s coverage of Uk politics with that of other Uk broadcast news. How many decades have you been doing that for?
Over two decades, thanks. How about yourself? I don't think other outlets are free of bias and at times the BBC definitely outperforms some of them.

Any comments on the bias studies or will you be taking the "there are studies every week that might also be biased" route of our other friend?
སེམས་རྣམ་པར་གྲོལ་བར་བྱའི་ཕྱིར་བྱམས་པ་བསྒོམ་པར་བྱའོ།
“In order to completely liberate the mind, cultivate loving kindness.” -- Maitribhāvana Sūtra

"The bottom always falls out of the quest for the elementary. The irreducibly individual recedes like the horizon, as our analysis advances." -- Genesis, Michel Serres

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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Malcolm » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:40 pm

mañjughoṣamaṇi wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:08 am
There are different types of ways the media is biased. Chinese state media is obviously a tool of a particular political party and government that has no interest in adversarial journalism except to shut it down. People know (including in China) that there is no freedom in this media.

There is still bias in the media of liberal democracies. The NYT was brought up earlier. As an example of bias, they continue to platform racist pseudo-science while refusing right of response to dissenting voices. One can look at the oped published by Reich recently. A large number of race scholars in biological fields and population genetics contacted the paper to not that he was far outside of the scientific consensus and asked to be given a space to respond. They were not. They had to publish on buzzfeed.

The coverage of Corbyn was brought up because there were several easily accessible reliable studies published on the topic.
Hi Todd, opinion pieces are not journalism. For example, I read the journal, because it is good at economic journalism, etc. It’s opinion page however is atrocious.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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mañjughoṣamaṇi
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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by mañjughoṣamaṇi » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:50 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:40 pm
mañjughoṣamaṇi wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:08 am
There are different types of ways the media is biased. Chinese state media is obviously a tool of a particular political party and government that has no interest in adversarial journalism except to shut it down. People know (including in China) that there is no freedom in this media.

There is still bias in the media of liberal democracies. The NYT was brought up earlier. As an example of bias, they continue to platform racist pseudo-science while refusing right of response to dissenting voices. One can look at the oped published by Reich recently. A large number of race scholars in biological fields and population genetics contacted the paper to not that he was far outside of the scientific consensus and asked to be given a space to respond. They were not. They had to publish on buzzfeed.

The coverage of Corbyn was brought up because there were several easily accessible reliable studies published on the topic.
Hi Todd, opinion pieces are not journalism. For example, I read the journal, because it is good at economic journalism, etc. It’s opinion page however is atrocious.
Hi Malcolm,

Opinion sections are edited and are part of the media output of a given organization. When only one perspective is presented (I'm not arguing for 'both sides', but for more perspectives) that is a bias in platforming and a failure in journalistic integrity as it presents one side as normative and unchallenged. The NYT is horrible at this, and quite frankly their publishing on the biological sciences in their journalistic output is quite bad too. They had race science weirdo Nicholas Wade as their science editor for years.

I didn't bring up their cheerleading of the Iraq War but I think that is relevant here too.

Todd
སེམས་རྣམ་པར་གྲོལ་བར་བྱའི་ཕྱིར་བྱམས་པ་བསྒོམ་པར་བྱའོ།
“In order to completely liberate the mind, cultivate loving kindness.” -- Maitribhāvana Sūtra

"The bottom always falls out of the quest for the elementary. The irreducibly individual recedes like the horizon, as our analysis advances." -- Genesis, Michel Serres

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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Malcolm » Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:25 pm

mañjughoṣamaṇi wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:50 pm


Opinion sections are edited and are part of the media output of a given organization. When only one perspective is presented (I'm not arguing for 'both sides', but for more perspectives) that is a bias in platforming and a failure in journalistic integrity as it presents one side as normative and unchallenged.
These are good points, but I don't think they really affect what Maggie Haberman, etc. is doing. OTH, nothing can be all things to all people. This is why we read news from both liberal and conservative journalists.
The NYT is horrible at this, and quite frankly their publishing on the biological sciences in their journalistic output is quite bad too. They had race science weirdo Nicholas Wade as their science editor for years.
Just because the guy wrote a stupid book does not mean he was terrible in every way. That said, I don't read the times for science stories.

I read the papers mainly for news about politics, wars, money, etc. Disaster porn, mainly.

I didn't bring up their cheerleading of the Iraq War but I think that is relevant here too.
A significant journalist failure, and one they've acknowledged as such.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by PeterC » Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:52 pm

mañjughoṣamaṇi wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:05 pm
PeterC wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:11 am
mañjughoṣamaṇi wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:19 am


I read the BBC news site everyday. I find it a valuable resource as it reports on things the US media often doesn't. I don't find it without any merit. However, the idea that there isn't political bias is a little risible though. I don't find much of their reporting to be strongly critical of the UK government...
For that opinion to have much weight you would have to be comparing the bbc’s coverage of Uk politics with that of other Uk broadcast news. How many decades have you been doing that for?
Over two decades, thanks. How about yourself? I don't think other outlets are free of bias and at times the BBC definitely outperforms some of them.

Any comments on the bias studies or will you be taking the "there are studies every week that might also be biased" route of our other friend?
Considerably longer

The study you cite reviewed a period of three months with regard to coverage of Corbyn. That’s not exactly evidence of systemic bias, it’s just citation-trolling by underemployed academics

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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by mañjughoṣamaṇi » Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:17 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:25 pm
These are good points, but I don't think they really affect what Maggie Haberman, etc. is doing. OTH, nothing can be all things to all people. This is why we read news from both liberal and conservative journalists.
I think there are cultures at news outlets and the in the profession as well as institutional constraints and these sometimes cut across the binaries of liberal/conservative. Owen Jones, who is actually a journalist I don't care much for, just wrote a thoughtful piece on this where he actually got some reflective thoughts from some journalists as well as a lot of slander.

Anyway, I think we have known each other long enough to know reading widely isn't a problem. The disagreements come in interpretation.
Just because the guy wrote a stupid book does not mean he was terrible in every way. That said, I don't read the times for science stories.
He behaves pretty awfully in debates and with his opponents and really discredited the Times in the scientific community.
I read the papers mainly for news about politics, wars, money, etc. Disaster porn, mainly.
Fair enough. I think the science reporting is related to this. I see these as more interrelated, especially in a time of resurgent race based fascism. The CBC did a documentary on the completely discredited Solutrean hypothesis and literally within a day of it was getting cited widely by those on the right.

Anyway, I'm out. Back to work in the morning.

Take care.
སེམས་རྣམ་པར་གྲོལ་བར་བྱའི་ཕྱིར་བྱམས་པ་བསྒོམ་པར་བྱའོ།
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"The bottom always falls out of the quest for the elementary. The irreducibly individual recedes like the horizon, as our analysis advances." -- Genesis, Michel Serres

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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Malcolm » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:20 pm

mañjughoṣamaṇi wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:17 pm

Fair enough. I think the science reporting is related to this. I see these as more interrelated, especially in a time of resurgent race based fascism. The CBC did a documentary on the completely discredited Solutrean hypothesis and literally within a day of it was getting cited widely by those on the right.
You and I both know, racism/tribalism is never very far from the surface in human beings. And as buddhists, we all know why: false reification of self and other.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Malcolm » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:41 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:20 am
Malcolm wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:41 am
With all due respect Todd, Corbyn is an idiot.
There are idiots and then there is the President of the U$. I'll take my chances with the idiots, if you don't mind!
Sure, if you want the UK to wind up like Venezuela, go for it. Oh wait, you live in Greece, you are already well on the way.

We'll deal with Trump -- looking like he is very possibly going to be brought down by a porn star...fitting for such a man.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Virgo » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:48 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:41 pm
We'll deal with Trump -- looking like he is very possibly going to be brought down by a porn star...fitting for such a man.
When you live a disgusting life full of deceit and terrible actions, it all comes out.

Kevin

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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Grigoris » Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:07 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:41 pm
Sure, if you want the UK to wind up like Venezuela, go for it. Oh wait, you live in Greece, you are already well on the way.
Yes, well... If you think Greece ended up in it's current mess because of socialist policies you are sadly mistaken. It wasn't the socialist policies, it was because of corruption and nepotism. The state handed out funds for investment and people embezzled the funds and used them to build mansions, buy flash cars and paid for Eastern Bloc prostitutes.

The other thing that destroyed the Greek economy was the inclusion of former Eastern Bloc countries into the EU. The vast majority of the Greek manufacturing center took their business to places like Bulgaria. Jobs vanished, capital was pulled out, less tax ended up in the government coffers, etc...

Another factor in Greece's demise was the adoption of the euro currency. First of all we were ripped off blindly on the currency exchange, then people took advantage of the confusion to drive the prices of products through the roof*, then we did not have an independent currency to devalue in order to drive up the competitiveness of the market.

The swap to the euro currency struck the tourist industry (one of Greece's largest industries) was a death blow as the exchange rate for non-euro European states (the bulk of the low end of the economic scale's tourism to Greece) suddenly made travel to Greece expensive. At the same time Turkey (using funds provided by the EU for their development in order to make them eligible for EU entry) started to develop their tourist trade, moved towards political stability after decades of military dictatorship and their depressed currency suddenly made them a competitive tourist destination.

So, no, it was not the ideological Corbyn's of Greece that made us up end up in the current shithole, it was the fact that our politicians (both left and right) were corrupt as hell. Add to that Troika and World Bank neo-liberalism...

Oh yeah, tax evasion, that's the other big factor.

*For example: a product may have been 100 drachma (around 30 euro cents) and people started to sell it for 1 euro (around 300 drachma). If we had stricter controls over the market (like during Greece's socialist phase where pricing was centrally controlled)...
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Malcolm
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Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria

Post by Malcolm » Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:32 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:07 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:41 pm
Sure, if you want the UK to wind up like Venezuela, go for it. Oh wait, you live in Greece, you are already well on the way.
Yes, well... If you think Greece ended up in it's current mess because of socialist policies you are sadly mistaken. It wasn't the socialist policies, it was because of corruption and nepotism.
Yes, but it will just get worse under a socialist government.
*For example: a product may have been 100 drachma (around 30 euro cents) and people started to sell it for 1 euro (around 300 drachma). If we had stricter controls over the market (like during Greece's socialist phase where pricing was centrally controlled)...
And then you would end up exactly like Venezuela, which has centrally controlled pricing.
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